Biden: 'Whatever Happened' to McCain's Principles?

[Neil D]

By Jonathan Weisman

Democratic vice presidential nominee Joseph R. Biden today will unleash the Democratic ticket's stiffest blast yet on John McCain, saying his old friend has transformed himself into an opportunistic and vicious right-wing politician in a mindless pursuit of the White House.

In excerpts of a planned speech in St. Clair Shores, Mich., the running mate of Democratic nominee Barack Obama will make good on his promise to be the ticket's attack dog, using his long history with McCain against the senator from Arizona.

"When Senator McCain was subjected to unconscionable, scurrilous attacks in his 2000 campaign, I called him on the phone to ask what I could do," Biden, a longtime senator from Delaware, will recall, according to the excerpts.

"And now, some of the very same people and the tactics he once deplored his campaign now employs.

"The same campaign that once called for a town hall a week is now launching a low blow a day."

The speech continues: "The campaign a person runs says everything about the way they'll govern. John McCain has decided to bet the house on the politics perfected by Karl Rove ... Those tactics may be good at squeaking by in an election but they are bad if you want to lead one nation, indivisible."

But the speech is not all attack, and it appears somewhat contradictory. Biden extols McCain's long-ago military service, before dismissing its relevance to the office he seeks.

"America needs more than a great solider," he says. "America needs a wise leader."

On the one hand, Biden laments the loss of what he once saw as a principled politician, asking: "Whatever happened to the guy, who once denounced tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans in a time of war, as 'immoral'?"

On the other, he portrays McCain as a clone of George W. Bush, not just now but throughout his political career.

"Take a hard look at the positions John has taken for the past 26 years, on the economy, on health care, on foreign policy ... and you'll see why I say that John McCain is just four more years of George Bush," the speech says. "On the issues that you talk about around the kitchen table, Mary's tuition, the cost of the MRI, heating the home this winter -- John McCain is profoundly out of touch."

"We've seen this movie before, folks. But as everyone knows, the sequel is always worse than the original," Biden will say.

In a memo to supporters last week, Obama campaign manager David Plouffe promised to use Biden in a more visible way as the campaign pushes back on months of fierce Republican attacks. Obama and Biden were scheduled to appear together Saturday in Manchester, NH, but in deference to Hurricane Ike the appearance was scaled back to a solo Obama event.

[Dr. Shane]

The Obama campaign is trying to redefine McCain which is going to prove to be an uphill battle for them. McCain has a long history as a maverick in Washington. That is not some kind of slogan he made up for this campaign. To now try to convince the public that McCain is like the rest of Washington is going to be tough. It is much easier to reinforce a previously held perception of one's opposition than to try and define him or her in a new way.

Obama would have much more luck defining McCain as being old and out of touch - which he is also trying to do. This is because public perception of McCain is that he is old. So if Obama can find a way to turn his age into a liability - like saying he is out of touch - that could be much more successful than trying to paint McCain as being like Bush or the rest of Washington.

[carolaa]

McCain's principles went out the window when he hired Karl Rove.

[carolaa]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080915/ap_on_el_pr/biden;_ylt=Aral9Dj.7TdrfIwEMQ6fqohh24cA

[Dr. Shane]

Karl Rove is not working for McCain. Obama's campaign is trying to paint McCain as being Bush by saying McCain is using "Rove principles." It is just like kids on the playground calling each other names. It really doesn't mean anything beyond that.

[John317]

I didn't think Rove was working for McCain either. I'm glad he's not. I think it would be a bad idea.

We're really seeing a lot of childish stuff now, just as you say. I think the country and the problems we face deserve better than silly arguments. We need to look seriously at broad issues and solutions, not at personalities and petty accusations. It reminds me of kids fighting over who has the most mud on their faces while the ship is in a storm and could go down.

[carolaa]

I may be mistaken. This is from the July 8 NYTimes:

". . . KARL ROVE. You thought we were going to write a story about the internal dynamics of a Republican presidential campaign without mentioning Mr. Rove? The chief strategist for Mr. Bush in 2000 and 2004, Mr. Rove is not directly involved in the McCain campaign, but his presence there can be seen in the number of his protégés who now hold central roles there. Mr. Schmidt tops that list; coming in a very close second is Nicolle Wallace, who was communications director for Mr. Bush in 2004 and in the White House. . . ."

However, they are obviously using Rove strategies, as Obama correctly stated.

[carolaa]

This is from Politico in March:

". . . A top McCain adviser said both Mehlman and Rove are now informally advising the campaign. Rove refused to detail his conversation with McCain. . . ."

[Dr. Shane]

"Informally" is the key word there. That means he is not getting paid. He is offering advice - wanted or not. I seriously doubt the McCain campaign wants any connection to Karl Rove unless he is helping them raise money.

[carolaa]

Or helping them win an election. He is the expert, you know. I have to admit it is a smart move for McCain to hire Rove's "proteges" instead of Rove himself. Same tactics w/o the direct connection.

[Tom Wetmore]

"Informally" is the key word there. That means he is not getting paid...

Many political operatives and advisers very happily work on the deferred compensation plan. It is like a lawyer working for "free" on a contingency fee basis. If the client wins he takes a choice piece of the pie. Yeah, Rove is willing to work for free in hopes of a big payoff later in the form of some great appointment or new role, if McCain wins. There are many indirect ways to compensate for such things.

But the real reason is that as long as he doesn't officially join the campaign, he can keep his far more lucrative job as a political commentator on FoxNoise. Help McCain unofficially and keep up the appearance of being somewhat objective as a political commentator - pays now, pays later - a win/win for the ever shrewd Carl Rove.

And FoxNoise wins too because they have a political commentator with real current contacts in the campaign they are sworn to uphold and protect...

[Dr. Shane]

I think too much importance has been placed on Rove by Liberals and far-right conservatives. He fails to impress me much and I doubt there is much love loss between and maverick McCain.

[Neil D]

Oooh, I dunno, Shane...Karl hate those dreaded liberals as much as you are blinded by your conservativeness....

Of course, you think you are in the middle of the road...oblivious to the conservative thinking that you employ...And Karl just naturally wakes up in the morning and says " I hate progressives...I hate liberals...and most of all, I HATE democrates!"

[Jeannieb43]

McCain's principles went out the window when he hired Karl Rove.

I don't know if this word is permitted on this board, but I'll use it anyway.

McCain is prostituting himself in order to try to get elected.

[Woody]

There is NO evidence that Rove was 'hired'.

But there is evidence of 'prostituting' by those who promote this.

[Tom Wetmore]

TU Precisely!

Soul for sale in exchange for his ambition to be president. Most every supposed "maverick" reformer principle he ever stood for in the past he has either seriously compromised or totally sold out for purely political objectives to capture whatever political sector he happens to need to pander to at the moment.

Obviously, the most significant political sector was the hardcore Republican party faithful. Before trying to capture a presidential nomination he truly could have been considered a moderate, even barely in the Republican camp. But in pursuit of the presidential nomination he has dramatically sold out to the loud voices of the far right and sounds more conservative than Bush.

Sell-out. Yes, I will repeat it, Jeannie. It's political prostitution.

Tom

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

" I hate progressives...I hate liberals...and most of all, I HATE democrates!"

He also says, "I haate moderates like Shane Quintanilla-Linder"

[carolaa]

I don't know if this word is permitted on this board, but I'll use it anyway.

McCain is prostituting himself in order to try to get elected.

To be fair, there are a lot of liberals and progressives who feel Obama did the same thing when he started moving to the center.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Jeannieb43

I don't know if this word is permitted on this board, but I'll use it anyway.

McCain is prostituting himself in order to try to get elected.

To be fair, there are a lot of liberals and progressives who feel Obama did the same thing when he started moving to the center.

Can you tell me what views of Obama would be considered in the center?

[carolaa]

He compromised on the FISA bill. He adopted more of a tough guy stance on foreign policy. He's softened on his Iraq stance. I'm tired, can't think of anything else at the moment.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Found in the Washington Post, no friend of McCain...

Today, September 15, 2008, Amir Taheri writes in the New York Post

"WHILE campaigning in public for a speedy withdrawal of US troops from

Iraq, Sen. Barack Obama has tried in private to persuade Iraqi

leaders

to delay an agreement on a draw-down of the American military

presence.

According to Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, Obama made his

demand for delay a key theme of his discussions with Iraqi leaders in

Baghdad in July.

“He asked why we were not prepared to delay an agreement until after

the US elections and the formation of a new administration in

Washington,” Zebari said in an interview."

Truth or Fiction? Wha'sup? Ain it so that the hue and cry from the wrong side of the aisle has been "No blood for oil!"

So, why's the man pimping the troops like political pawns?

[carolaa]

He compromised on the FISA bill. He adopted more of a tough guy stance on foreign policy. He's softened on his Iraq stance. I'm tired, can't think of anything else at the moment.

He backed off his criticisms of Israel...

[carolaa]

It doesn't sound like anything different from what Bush is already doing. Perhaps another issue that will alienate Obama from the liberals and progressives.

[carolaa]

Originally Posted By: carolaa

He compromised on the FISA bill. He adopted more of a tough guy stance on foreign policy. He's softened on his Iraq stance. I'm tired, can't think of anything else at the moment.

He backed off his criticisms of Israel...

He supports drilling...

[Neil D]

Quote:

" I hate progressives...I hate liberals...and most of all, I HATE democrates!"

He also says, "I haate moderates like Shane Quintanilla-Linder"

No, he doesn't hate moderates...He uses them....as in "How can I get moderates to vote for the republican cause". As for you, Shane, all Karl has to do is snap his fingers and say "Fetch, boy...fetch the vote for McCain." ....and you do whatever else he tells you do...So, he's already got you wrapped up around his pinky....