DAVID KORESH AND THE END TIMES

[LifeHiscost]

Jesus taught His disciple to buy swords

'Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?

And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.

And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him." Luke 22:36,38,49-51 KJV

Considering what Jesus did immediately after Peter used the sword for warfare, what would you say Jesus' intent was in giving instruction for obtaining a sword? Especially after this other instruction given?

"And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.

Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? " Matt 22:51-53 KJV

"So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me." Hebrews 13:6 KJV

Regards!

[LifeHiscost]

They are abusing us and destroying our Constitution and taking away our freedoms. And they count on our denial and skepticism and trust in our media to not see this.

The wanted to destroy a cult.

There's some sort of agenda about cults these days.

Why can't we join a cult now? I thought that was our Constitutional right. I'm in a cult. There are thousands of web sites that says the SDA church is a cult.

"It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?"Matthew 10:25 KJV

"They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service." John 16:2 KJV

So, what should my response be then, as wishing to reveal the mind of Christ?

"Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously..."

1 Pet 2:22,23

Regards!

BTW, a cult is defined as___"great devotion to a person". If that Person is Jesus, I see no reason to consider attacks more than the expected trials any Christian might expect, rejoicing for the privilege.

"Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything." 1 Peter 1:2-4 KJV TNIV

[John317]

I agree, Life. Frankly I do not care if they call us a cult. I would rather they didn't but if they do, it won't affect me any at all in terms of my belief and my faith. The early Christians were considered a cult.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Looks like a cult to me.

That may be true, and David Koresh probably made too much of himself. The Davidian system was flawed, in that they needed to consider the leader a prophet. This whole "listen to the rod" thing suggests we need a person to lead us, but we have the Holy Ghost and Scripture to lead us. We don't need a person who's acknowledged as a prophet.

And it is instructive to observe in the case of the Koresh followers just how off-beat and out-of-scripture that error can lead someone. The danger is that they are basically handing their conscience AND ability to read and understand the Bible -- to someone else. They might as well be declaring their own Pope - who says he is the Vicar of Christ on earth. In fact I think Vernon Howell went even FURTHER than that!

How sad that they turned from the reproving and prompting of the Holy Spirit for this antichrist figure who "stood in the place of Christ" for them.

But I always that thought that the Branch Davidian denomination was "bigger" than that one congregation - and that they were not all fallen as far as Howell off the path of truth.

Or do they "still" show up for church business meetings with 7 heavily armed "associates" to "vote"??

[BobRyan]

If there is an actual interest in knowing what a cult is -- and determining how SDAs measure up -- I suggest Walter Martin's historic "Kingdom of The Cults".

There we have an objective well-accepted non-SDA observer pointing out why SDAs are NOT a cult -- and frankly most of the informed evangelical leaders are aware of Martin's book and accept Dr. Walter Martin's study on that point.

in Christ,

Bob

[Woody]

Redwood, you sound like you have had some dealings with these people....

Nevertheless, the mike is available to Mark to share what he sees...I would hope that since he uses EGWhite to sustanciate his views that he would also understand that truth has nothing to fear...

Hi Neil. My experiences are just with this drive-by shooter MA.

And since he is a drive-by shooter ... I doubt that you will get more than a web site to click on. I honestly don't think he knows much about his beliefs or is afraid to have them examined.

[Neil D]

And since he is a drive-by shooter ... I doubt that you will get more than a web site to click on. I honestly don't think he knows much about his beliefs or is afraid to have them examined.

Well, if he is a drive by, then he has the mike to explain his beliefs....And it is up to him to discuss them....If not, there is NO reason to go to his website....

[jasd]

QR frame:

>>And we should not publish lies about them just because we disagree with them,<<

Am taking the opportunity to segue off of the above and note – that [of] those embracing views diametrically opposed to that being shepherded by rush4hire – might take the time to Google, that they will not be perceived as mongering falsehoods.

[rush4hire]

They might as well be declaring their own Pope - who says he is the Vicar of Christ on earth.

[rush4hire]

Has anyone watched that video?

[John317]

Tell me why I should want to watch a video of David Koresh. It isn't as if I know nothing about him. I know too much as it is.

Just being honest about my thoughts and feelings here.

What would I learn in the video?

I wish I could talk to you personally and get to know you. I live in Southern California, near Loma Linda. Where do you live if I might ask.

You know, David Koresh came here trying to recruit new SDAs not too long before the siege. I understand he took a few with him.

[Woody]

Has anyone watched that video?

WHY would anyone WANT to?

[Neil D]

Rush....

Not interested....I suspect you have lost any sort of influence which may cause some to think it worth watching....

[rush4hire]

Tell me why I should want to watch a video of David Koresh.

[John317]

I can't find the quotes right now, about the fake letter from God, and all the bogus miracles that supposedly happened to show us He wants us to keep Sunday.

Sure, I know about the fake letter. It's referred to in GC, among other places. It is well known in histories of the Christian church.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Tell me why I should want to watch a video of David Koresh.

It's not about David Koresh per say. It's about the whole thing that happened. Without all the propaganda.

Do you really love propaganda or something? Do the think the person that created the propaganda should rule the world?

Please write what you believe actually happened and how you view David Koresh.

Could you explain:

Why was there so much violence surrounding Koresh?

Why did David Koresh have all those weapons? Or do you believe he did have them?

Why did he feel that he had to write about the seals before surrendering to the authorities?

Why do his followers believe that Koresh has already been resurrected?

What do you believe Koresh actually taught that was in line with the Bible or with what Ellen White wrote?

[John317]

You guys are not ready to see through Sunday propaganda. It's going to be even more deceptive than the propaganda about "cults". They got us seeing cult leaders around every corner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-cult_movement

How can you make these kinds of judgment or decisions about people you don't even know? You're assuming an awful lot. You're apparently assuming that because people don't view David Koresh the same as you do, they are not ready to see through Sunday propaganda.

How do you separate truth from propaganda when it comes to the so-called "cult leaders"?

[Amelia]

Quote:

Without all the propaganda.

Sorry, I don't believe anyone can write an article or make a video without some slant or propaganda in it. IMHO

[Stan]

Anyone get an email from this fella? I don't know how he got my email address, it shouldn't be avaliable to anyone but the admins and mods.

Hi

I believe there is an option to make your email public or private (in your "MY STUFF"

[rush4hire]

Quote:

Please write what you believe actually happened

Whole books have been written on this topic. I've also been explaining my views. But I'll get some time and I'll try to summarize my theory later, after I answer these other questions briefly.

and how you view David Koresh.

I don't know much about this individual, but I know the hype is just hype. I know how the propaganda experts blame everything on one person, so we are all supposed to believe David Koresh murdered those people, and that he's the one responsible. That's a scapegoat, and a patsy. We are also supposed to believe the assassination of JFK had nothing to do with the "monolithic and ruthless conspiracy" that he was exposing, which wanted to control this country. But we are supposed to believe "one man" came out of the woods and decided to shoot the president. Then there will be no investigation. The whole thing is pinned on the patsy.

We are supposed to believe Hitler rose to power by himself without the Papacy or the elite corporations in America.

We are supposed to believe Jim Jones raised up that church of his all by himself. Nevermind all his elite connections. Then this man told 913 people to kill themselves, and they just did it. Nevermind all the signs that they where strangled, shot, and injected with strychnine. Before any investigation could take place, the media already had their story, and all America where taught they all killed themselves.

All because of ONE MAN......

This is the thing we need to understand. When the FBI agents where under investigation in the Supreme Court, they brought Kiri Jewell out to testify that she had been molested by Koresh. She read a little paper before the court, and who knows who wrote that.

They didn't so much as check to see if she was still a virgin. They didn't get any evidence at all. They just believed the girl.

Then what happened?

The whole case against the FBI was dropped.

Why?

What do some liars who claim sexual abuse, have to do with the proceedings of the FBI in this case?

NOTHING AT ALL.

But now the FBI agents looked like heroes for vanquishing the demons from the land, so nevermind how unconstitutional their proceedings where.

So, they got completely off the hook by demonizing David Koresh.

[rush4hire]

Could you explain:

Why was there so much violence surrounding Koresh?

[rush4hire]

Why do his followers believe that Koresh has already been resurrected?

[John317]

You have a completely closed system. There is no way to test whether your theories are right or not because you have it set up in such a way that no information can show you that your theory is wrong.

If I showed you something that showed you were wrong, all you would have to say is that my evidence is part of the conspiracy.

I find it very hard to believe that Koresh's people had all those weapons, including machine guns, all simply because of a gun dealing business. If that is so, why were Koresh and his male followers so good at shooting them and so prepared to use them? They obviously trained with them as if for a battle. It is clear to me that they had the weapons for purposes of using them against the authorities.

Why were people who studied the Gospels and the Spirit of prophecy and getting ready for Jesus to come, using machine guns in preparation to shoot government officials? I can't understand that. Where does the Bible or Ellen White tell us that this is OK?

[Taylor]

Originally Posted By: John317

Why do his followers believe that Koresh has already been resurrected?

What makes you think they believe that? Do you assume the guy that posted this thread was a real Branch Davidian? I believe he was not. I believe that web site was not created by real Branch Davidians, but by some evil organization that wants to make the Branch Davidians, that where killed at Waco, look like real sick, twisted, lost souls.

Do you understand the agenda?

The more the Branch Davidians are demonized, the more the government is justified in their actions, and the less credibility those who see through the lies, have.

I'm telling you, that web site is fake. Any real Branch Davidian or Shepherd's Rod will tell you that.

How would you know what a real "Branch Davidian" or a "Shepherd's Rod" believes?

Now that you mention "Shepherd's Rod" I must say something. The Bible says that "by their fruits you shall know them". Shepherd's Rod and the Adventist Reformed church have done much to damage the SDA church. Their agenda often has nothing to do with "saving a lost world" but in "saving" the SDA church members from the "SDA church" which they say is "Babylon".

[Amelia]

Rush, can't you see that you are getting nowhere with your conspiracy theories? You have no proof backing up all your supposed truths. This is a Seventh-Day Adventist board. Not a Koresh board. We have no investment in David Koresh. We don't need to be convicted of anything regarding him. You have a whole website of your own to post your supposed truths and theories. Please do it there. This thread is going nowhere fast. All it's doing is making you angry and making us frustrated. I am closing it.

Thanks

Amelia