They Sold Their Souls for Rock 'n' Roll

[Bravus]

I aimed for a very quick-and-dirty definition of rock in that comment. I know it's much more complex than that, but defining the term is actually quite a complicated and contested business. In the context of such anti-rock rants as the one that started this thread, the definition usually boils down to 'the stuff I don't like or understand'.

[rush4hire]

Do you think it's even REMOTELY possible that rock stars will say anything to sell an album? Even claim to worship satan? Or God?

[Amelia]

Ya know, the thing with music is, there is always going to be someone who says this or that "type" is of the devil. But the next person will say, oh no, that music isn't of the devil, it's only music with drums that is of the devil. Then the person after that will say, sorry all music except traditional hymns is of the devil. Or, God only listens to solum, dirge like traditional hymns. Then it's, Only traditional hymns sung in latin. yadda yadda yadda.

Come on people. God is alot wider than the narrow view some take in the subject of music. It comes down to what the individual deems correct for their life and walk with God. It is something so personal that you just can't tell others they are wrong. Not only can't you tell them they are wrong but it's totally judgemental for you to do so.

So if certain types of music just don't help with your getting closer to God, fine. Just don't go around telling everyone else they are wrong!

[Gail]

Let's put a different spin on this...

I'd like to ask a question:

Out of the music that you are exposed to, what is YOUR spiritual reaction to it? (Be honest, now)

Does the music bring you closer to God? Does it provide peace in your heart and a desire to praise Him?

I have a feeling that some people might say, "No" to traditional hymns because the music irritates them, just as some would reaction similarly to rock.

Another question would be whether God can reach people through areas such as secular music or media.

[Guest Bruno]

It comes down to what the individual deems correct for their life and walk with God. It is something so personal that you just can't tell others they are wrong. Not only can't you tell them they are wrong but it's totally judgemental for you to do so.

So if certain types of music just don't help with your getting closer to God, fine. Just don't go around telling everyone else they are wrong!

AMEN!

Aren't we all on a PERSONAL walk with God?

Music is a varied and complex wonder that God has given us. And we all hear it differently, and appreciate it in our own personal ways. We are in fact, unique and individual people, no two alike.

And Gods love for us is so vast, and all encompassing, that I know he can see into our hearts, and know what really drives us into His arms. And with God on our side, we can do anything, even if that is finding God in rock and roll music!

[BobRyan]

Read the book "Creeping Compromise" by Joe Crews.

[rush4hire]

It comes down to what the individual deems correct for their life and walk with God. It is something so personal that you just can't tell others they are wrong. Not only can't you tell them they are wrong but it's totally judgemental for you to do so.

[olger]

Who said this? "Rock has always been THE DEVIL'S MUSIC . . . I believe rock and roll is dangerous . . . I feel we're only heralding SOMETHING EVEN DARKER THAN OURSELVES." (Rolling Stone, Feb. 12, 1976) David Bowie.

Rocker Frank Zappa proudly boasted: "I'm the devil's advocate. We have our own worshippers who are called 'groupies.' Girls will give their bodies to musicians as you would give a sacrifice to a god." (Peters Brothers, What About Christian Rock, p. 17)

Dr. Paul King, medical director of the adolescent program at Charter Lakeside Hospital, in Memphis Tennessee, says more than 80 percent of his patients are there because of rock music. He says, "the lyrics become a philosophy of life, a RELIGION."

"Bon Jovi sings in "Homebound Train":

"When I was just a boy

THE DEVIL TOOK MY HAND

Took me from my home

He made me a man . . .

I'm going DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, DOWN, DOWN

On the homebound train."

In Smash Hits magazine, Bon Jovi says:

" . . . I'd kill my mother for rock and roll. I WOULD SELL MY SOUL."

One of the most popular groups in rock history is Slayer. Slayer sing of themselves, as: "Warriors from the gates of hell . . .

In lord Satan we trust." Slayer's albums sell in the millions! And song after song — IS PRAISE TO SATAN! Their song "Hell Awaits" says:

"Jesus knows your soul cannot be saved

CRUCIFY THE SO CALLED LORD

He soon shall fall to me

Your souls are damned

Your God has fell to slave for me eternally

Hell awaits."

The beginning of their song "Hell Awaits" contains an obvious backwards message. When played forward, nothing but garbled noise is heard, but when played backwards — you hear the real message — "JOIN US, JOIN US, JOIN US" — over and over!

These miserable servants of Satan are leading millions of youth down the road towards subtle satanism. They are the philosophical off-children of the prophets of Baal dancing around the altar (1 Kings 18). The night is far spent.

regards,

oG

[Bravus]

Tom Araya, bass player and singer of Slayer is a practising Catholic. I recall a Christian writer's review of a Slayer show that concluded that the Satanic themes were all for show and youthful rebellion and resembled nothing in the band's lives.

[rush4hire]

Tom Araya, bass player and singer of Slayer is a practising Catholic.

[olger]

Tom Araya, bass player and singer of Slayer is a practising Catholic. I recall a Christian writer's review of a Slayer show that concluded that the Satanic themes were all for show and youthful rebellion and resembled nothing in the band's lives.

Oh please.

So I can go out and preach adultery to the young people who look up to me, and it's ok because I remain faithful to my wife. No. We ARE accountable for the words that we speak (see 1 Corinthians 8:10-12; Matthew 12:36-37). Don't even go there, friend.

regards,

oG

[rush4hire]

Has anyone actually watched this documentary, besides Olger and myself?

[Bravus]

Look, again, I wasn't saying Slayer's music is a good thing. I personally choose not to listen to it precisely because of the messages it conveys. But I am concerned with truth. The claim is being made that Slayer are Satanists in practice, and that claim is false. They are a band doing what it takes to sell albums. That doesn't make it right, but I believe truth is important.

And rush, once again you have placed yourself in a position where truth does not matter and is not accessible. Your argument seems to be 'any time a rock musician claims to be Satanic, that's true. Any time a rock musician claims not to be Satanic, he's lying'. Under that criterion, all rock musicians are Satanic by definition and there is not evidence that could ever show that they are not. So you never lose an argument. But you also never find out the truth.

[rush4hire]

Your argument seems to be 'any time a rock musician claims to be Satanic, that's true. Any time a rock musician claims not to be Satanic, he's lying'. Under that criterion, all rock musicians are Satanic by definition and there is not evidence that could ever show that they are not.

[Bravus]

My intention certainly was not to be insulting, but to describe particular behaviours. If the comments seemed like insults, I apologise for that.

But I said the watertight argument thing because it is what I see from you. Sir Karl Popper is the philosopher of science who has talked about 'falsification': the idea that a proposition is only scientific if it is capable of being falsified by evidence. I know we're not talking about science here, but that's a standard I tend to use in discussions, because it makes sense to me.

The question for you is "What evidence could exist that would prove Slayer are not Satanic?" Obviously there are some issues of defining our terms here, and we might define them differently, but it did seem to me that your system is hermetically sealed: every time some contrary evidence comes up it can be dismissed as Satanic deception.

[Bravus]

..and you rejected my shorthand definition of rock music, but haven't really offered an alternative. The video (which I haven't watched but have read several reviews of, and most of its accusations I've encountered before in other similar presentations) spans everything from 'N Sync to Mercyful Fate, which is an enormous range of styles and content. If it *doesn't* boil down to just the things you don't like, then plese offer a better definition of what constitutes the acceptable and the unacceptable in terms of music.

I'm not into discussion as fighting or argument or attack - what I hope to do is learn and understand. So when I point out what seems like illogic in a presentation, it's not with the goal of 'winning', but of understanding... I'm very aware that seeming illogic may be just flaws in my own assumptions or readings of others' points.

[rush4hire]

My intention certainly was not to be insulting, but to describe particular behaviors.