Do children go to hell?

[Lineman]

I'm not calling God a liar. I do think there's a lot more going on than is revealed to us, however. And, I don't put it past God to change His mind.

And a personal favorite:

Jonah 3:6-4:2 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes. 7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water. 8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands. 9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish? 10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it. 4:1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the Lord, and said, Ah, Lord, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who repents from doing harm.

I didn't really think that you meant it that way, but that is how I read your statement. You said that "there's a lot more going on than is revealed to us", but God does say that He will not do anything before He tells His prophets, so we know what is going on. (You don't have to believe it, but it is there if you want the truth.)

TS, I'm not sure I can share this in just a few paragraphs, but I feel I have to try:

Before God had created a single being He KNEW that someone would rebel someday (an option for all because all had been given freedom of choice) and so He and His Son created a plan to once and for all eradicate sin from the universe once it got started. That plan was for sin to be allowed to demonstrate just how far and how much hurt it will cause. Then the plan called for one of them to prove that They loved those They had created. In fact God love us so much that He would give His life for those who had rebelled. Jesus chose to do just that and so His Father sent Him (let Him come) to this earth for that reason. (This was not a "required death" of Jesus. He gave His life for us because He loved us, not because He was forced to.)

Jesus proved that He and His Father loved us, even though They had the power to totally eradicate us from the whole universe. In fact when you stop to think about it, They could have totally wiped out the whole universe and started over, not just kill us. Why didn't they? Because they loved us? How can we think otherwise?

The Devil wants us to think that all the evil that comes to us comes to us from God. He wants us to blame God as if He is evil, but all it takes to see the truth is to take a look at what God has gone thru just so that you and I can live forever (no sin, no pain, no death, no guilt, no heartache and the list could go on and on).

Someday, after we see just how evil sin is, God will rescue those who are willing to trust Him because they have come to love Him too. He will then allow us to look over all the records that have been kept and to "confir" that what needs to be done, for the good of the entire univeres, is erase sin and sinners (those who have chosen to reject Jesus and His offer of forgiveness and eternal life) from being able to cause any more pain and suffering. (Sin will never again lift it's ugly head because we will know how bad it is and will want noting to do with it ever again.)

It is your choice, either believe the truth or believe a lie. Either is easy to believe, just pick one. Please be careful not to be swayed back and forth with every little lie that comes along. You want to know the truth and you KNOW that God is love. You KNOW that He created things for you to ENJOY, but sin has blinded your eyes it seems and now you think that all evil is from God? Stop and think about what you are doing to yourself my friend. Go outside and pray and think about how God has blessed us all with His creation. God even created women and their beauty, but the Devil has so perverted our minds that we only see what WE can get. Everything is for "ME". I don't know about you, but I have seen enough of sin and it's results and I don't want anything else to do with it. (When you have time please follow this link and choose one of the buttons [versions] to watch. You may have already seen this, but it sounds like you need to watch it again. The Big Picture.) The more you learn of God the more you will love Him.

Back to you Cricket. Let's talk about Jonah. (The others can be seen much like this too.) Do you really believe that God changed His mind? The Bible also tells us that God NEVER changes, so the confusion must be in the translating or in our understanding. If God just wanted to kill those wicked people in Nineveh He could have just done it without saying a thing, so why then would He send Jonah to warn them that what they were doing would bring distruction on them? Do you suppose that He really did NOT want to destroy them? Any chance that His plan all along was to bring them to the place where they would see what they were doing and actually repent?

The Bible calls the time when hell fire kills all the wicked a "strange" act on the part of God. God is not in the torture business, He is in the saving business. He proved that whatever evil had been said about Him was false, just a made up bunch of lies, when He actually laid down His life so that you and I can live. Does that sound like a God who enjoys killing people and who really wanted to kill them, but here they went and ruined everything by REPENTING of all things?

It's late and I need to go to bed, sorry.

[melvin mccarty]

If God will judge anyone based on "foreknowledge" He could have closed the books long ago. Has to be something wrong with that theory.

mel

[Guest truthseeker007]

Myabe you are right Lineman. Nice website do you got by the way. Anyway i cannot understand why God has to hide from those that seek him so hard?

[Lineman]

If God will judge anyone based on "foreknowledge" He could have closed the books long ago.

God bases His judgement on what we actually do (for the most part) because the rest of the universe will either agree or disagree with Him before He completely wipes sin from the universe. No one, except God Himself, can read our minds and so He must judge by what can be seen. What is seen in our actions demonstrates what is in the heart according to our Bibles.

That's not to say that God cannot judge based on the heart or on foreknowledge because He may have to for some individuals (babies), but I believe that He wants the blessings of the entire universe before He starts the fires of hell. So for the most part (like I said above) He will be judging us by our actions for the sake of the universe.

How could you close the books on someone before they are even born? How can you judge them before they even make one action on their own unless you judge them by what they would become?

IMHO

[Lineman]

Myabe you are right Lineman. Nice website do you got by the way. Anyway i cannot understand why God has to hide from those that seek him so hard?

[Guest truthseeker007]

Thanks Lineman for your info, by the way that was a beautifull and intelligent qoute from Mrs White. However you ve got to understand that i ve tried everything i could possibly do including talking about my biggest fears and trials. I went to church, i ve prayed daily, i destroyed 'bad movies and music', i supressed my porn addiction, i gave up an intelectual career so i could spend more time investigating God s plans etc. For a spoiled guy like me, these are huge efforts to get closer to God.

But still i am asking myself, who is God, does he exist, is his character good or evil, was Ellen White a true prophetess? Only God himself can give me the answers, and i ve been begging so much to make himself known somehow, but nothing happened. I ve got no girlfriend anymore, i gave her up for God because i thought God wanted me to be committed to his work, i ve got no friends anymore, i ve lost many years at college and i am still struggling with pornography. The more and more i struggle, the more i become symphathetic towards atheists. I mean, why should an honoust and sincere person who has been searching God so hard for so many years, receive the same information that atheists do? It just doesn t make sense if there is a God that he hides himself so much from those that seek him.

So basically i gave up, i cannot comprehend the SDA church to be a false church, but i also cannot believe that God is going to judge people legalistically by only looking at the sabbath. There has to be some midway. Right now, although you guys on this forum are the kindest people on this planet, there are no good reasons for God to give adventists some kind of better treatment than most other people. Just knowing stuff doesn t make you a good person, but it can help decide which direction you want to go in life.

[Gail]

Quote:

I mean, why should an honoust and sincere person who has been searching God so hard for so many years, receive the same information that atheists do?

Be patient, Truthseeker. It will come. It is us that need to come to God, not the other way around He comes in His own time, when we are ready. Sometimes that is different than when and how we think He should come

Quote:

there are no good reasons for God to give adventists some kind of better treatment than most other people.

Do they? We are all part of God's creation. Being part of the Adventist church is not a ticket to better treatment. By connecting with Jesus we become ministers of mercy and reconciliation to the world. There is a message to be given but the Christian life is more than that.

[cricket]

Back to you Cricket. Let's talk about Jonah. (The others can be seen much like this too.) Do you really believe that God changed His mind? The Bible also tells us that God NEVER changes, so the confusion must be in the translating or in our understanding. If God just wanted to kill those wicked people in Nineveh He could have just done it without saying a thing, so why then would He send Jonah to warn them that what they were doing would bring distruction on them? Do you suppose that He really did NOT want to destroy them? Any chance that His plan all along was to bring them to the place where they would see what they were doing and actually repent?

The Bible calls the time when hell fire kills all the wicked a "strange" act on the part of God. God is not in the torture business, He is in the saving business. He proved that whatever evil had been said about Him was false, just a made up bunch of lies, when He actually laid down His life so that you and I can live. Does that sound like a God who enjoys killing people and who really wanted to kill them, but here they went and ruined everything by REPENTING of all things?

Any chance that His plan all along is to bring us ALL to a place where we would see what we are doing and actually repent? I think so. Further, I think it's part of His plan, His strange act, if you will, to save each of us and to bring us each to repentance in our own time--be it this side of eternity or on the other side.

Anyway. I don't expect you, or anyone here to agree with me. I'm just sharing my understanding of the Bible.

[Lineman]

Any chance that His plan all along is to bring us ALL to a place where we would see what we are doing and actually repent? I think so. Further, I think it's part of His plan, His strange act, if you will, to save each of us and to bring us each to repentance in our own time--be it this side of eternity or on the other side.

Anyway. I don't expect you, or anyone here to agree with me. I'm just sharing my understanding of the Bible.

[Lineman]

Quote:

However you ve got to understand that i ve tried everything i could possibly do including talking about my biggest fears and trials. I went to church, i ve prayed daily, i destroyed 'bad movies and music', i supressed my porn addiction, i gave up an intelectual career so i could spend more time investigating God s plans etc. For a spoiled guy like me, these are huge efforts to get closer to God.

Please remember that now you are letting God do whatever He wants to do in you. Just do not resist His love.

If He asks you to destroy your bad movies and music, totally give up your porn, etc. and you chose not to do that, or even just hang on to a tiny part of what you have grown so accustom to, then you are resisting His love. He will not force you to give these things up, but if you really want to and make an effort in that direction He will give you the strength.

Seeking God is more than just asking God to show Himself to you. You have to really study the things He has made. As an example, just looking at the stars that you enjoy so much is not bad, but when you really dig into what they are and how they move in relationship with what else is around them, then you will begin to see a side of God that is "lovable".

Get to know Him and you cannot help but love Him.

By the way, the fact that you have searched for so long tells me that you know that He is real, but it also tells me that what you have heard about Him is not something you can like. Yet, you know that what you have been told is not all true and so you keep searching. Am I right? It's like someone just dumps a huge puzzle in your lap and tells you to put the pieces together and you will see God. Then about the time you get 6 or 8 pieces someone else comes along and dumps more pieces from a totally different puzzle onto that same pile and you have no idea where to start.

I would like to suggest that you pick just one website (ie: Amazing Facts or Bible Timelines Online or Bible Info.com or Bible Universe or Life Talk Radio) and really look into what is being said there about God. Seems that you are jumping around so much that you are having a very hard time putting the pieces together into an understandable picture. You're currently getting very mixed messages about who God is, so eliminate some of the sources of the pieces. (Just make sure you trust the site you are using, OK? I'm kind of partial to Bible Timelines, but that may have something to do with that fact that I know what's on there.)

Blessings,

Dan

[melvin mccarty]

"Do children go to hell"

Well an immense number of children have been to hell already with no one to defend them. Explain that!

mel

[Guest truthseeker007]

"the way, the fact that you have searched for so long tells me that you know that He is real, but it also tells me that what you have heard about Him is not something you can like. Yet, you know that what you have been told is not all true and so you keep searching. Am I right? It's like someone just dumps a huge puzzle in your lap and tells you to put the pieces together and you will see God. Then about the time you get 6 or 8 pieces someone else comes along and dumps more pieces from a totally different puzzle onto that same pile and you have no idea where to start."

Lineman you are exactly right. I cannot express myself so well, but you said it perfectly. I don t think i ll ever solve the puzzle of God his character. There are 1000 years to put God on trial in the millenium, but i need to know about God Now. If he does not fullfill his promises, if he doesn t have good intentions with my life, why should i even want to follow him? Maybe God isn t so great characteristically after all, but maybe this is caused because God also doesn t know how to deal perfectly with this new situation. It would be nice though if God talked more humble about himself in the bible instead of boasting if he is not capable of being perfectly just. I feel sorry for both God and those that are lost. I wish there was some kind of midway in this crisis.

[Lineman]

"...the fact that you have searched for so long tells me that you know that He is real, but it also tells me that what you have heard about Him is not something you can like. Yet, you know that what you have been told is not all true and so you keep searching. Am I right? It's like someone just dumps a huge puzzle in your lap and tells you to put the pieces together and you will see God. Then about the time you get 6 or 8 pieces someone else comes along and dumps more pieces from a totally different puzzle onto that same pile and you have no idea where to start."

Lineman you are exactly right. I cannot express myself so well, but you said it perfectly. I don t think i ll ever solve the puzzle of God his character. There are 1000 years to put God on trial in the millenium, but i need to know about God Now. If he does not fullfill his promises, if he doesn t have good intentions with my life, why should i even want to follow him? Maybe God isn t so great characteristically after all, but maybe this is caused because God also doesn t know how to deal perfectly with this new situation. It would be nice though if God talked more humble about himself in the bible instead of boasting if he is not capable of being perfectly just. I feel sorry for both God and those that are lost. I wish there was some kind of midway in this crisis.

Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, but I have been very busy here. Now I have some time off, plus Sabbath is coming and I should have a few extra hours to stop here during the next couple of days.

You said, "There are 1000 years to put God on trial in the millenium, but i need to know about God Now". You are very right in that not only you, but all of us need to know God NOW. When the 1000 years starts it will be to late to learn to trust Him. God is judging us right now and so it is important for us to understand enough about Him to be willing to totally trust Him even though we will never totally understand Him.

Just a small correction though. I don't see this trial as starting during the 1000 years. God was accused by Lucifer/Satan/the Devil long before this earth was even created and so angels (and all other intelligent beings) began to question if what Lucifer said was right or wrong way back then.

So in my thinking,this trial of demonstrating who was right and who was wrong began when Satan got control of this earth shortly after its creation. This earth became the proving grounds for both sides; Satan was trying to prove that his methods of 'whatever' was the best way to go while God allowed him to do whatever he needed to do for 4,000 years. Finally Jesus came and demonistrated to us, the angels and to whomever else is out there that God's ways are the ONLY ways to live. Everything else only brings distruction. (Remember? There Bible says that the wages of sin is death. It also says that the gift of God is eternal life.)

I see that what is going on right now (the times we are living in) as more of this demonstration even though God proved on the Cross that He really does love us. Both God and Satan are demonstrating how what happens when these principles are lived by or not lived by.

I like what I see of God's demonstrations and do not like what I see of Satan's results. I have chosen to put all my trust in the One who wants me to be happy, healthy and full of joy. (The other just cares about whatever he will get from you. He does not care about you. When you hurt, when you are sad or even when you die actaully makes him happy. Totally unlike God.) I hope you will make that same choice FOR God someday too. If you had all the time in the world and saw everything there was to see in the universe it would all tell you the same thing. God LOVES you! So knowing just a little bit about Him will also tell you a great deal about what kind of God He really is.

In thinking about your situation I am thinking that right now you need to do just what we are were talking about above. You already know God is real, you just need to know if you can trust Him. So let's start there.

I have several PowerPoint presentations that I made several years back that can help get you started. (Maybe you have already watched these?) The whole point of all of these is to help us see what kind of God He is and thereby telling us if we can trust Him or not.

Some of these need to be watched in order because what is said in the first one helps to explain why the next subject works at all. Please keep in mind that what is on these is VERY basic. That's one of the neat things about what God has made throughout this whole earth, the closer you look at each of His creations the more you will see and the more impressed you are.

I have to do a few hours of work this morning so I have to run. (I work at three different places, but have several hours off today from one of them.)

Here are the presentations that need to be watched in order:

Creation Nuggets:

#1-Iridescent Light

#2-Butterfly Iridescence

#3-Peacock Iridescence

#4-The Human Eye

#5-DNA

Later,

Dan

[Lineman]

By the way,

You said, "I don t think i ll ever solve the puzzle of God his character." Keep in mind that if you listen to those who tell you that there isn't a God at all or try to tell you the He is evil you will just causing yourself lots of problems. Those kind of people have no problem lying about Him or anything else. God is the one who gave us the "rule" about not lying.

It just makes sense to me that if you want to know the truth you need to be very careful about your sources.

d