Sinless before or after Jesus returns?

[olger]

[Neil D]

TS ... It just takes us a long time to know that the answer to a prayer is NO.

Sometime the answer to the prayer is "not yet".....or sometimes it's "You screwed it up, Man! and therefore the answer is a definate "No!"".....Sometimes, it's not just "NO!" but *h*e*l*l* NO!"...Sometimes it's "Yes, but you gotta go find it." And sometimes it's "*h*e*l*l* YES! But you gotta get off your fat behind and go get it!."

You see, TS, you cant really tell right away unless you put out conditions and plan to get use that one answer...and go for that one answer....

[LifeHiscost]

"

Hmmm i am searching for years now. How long does it take to prove that these promises are false?

Well it took Moses at least 120 years to prove he was chosen of the Lord to lead the Israelites out of Egypt into the promised land. Then he didn't even get to go in himself. I imagine it wouldn't have been very hard for him to have neen ticked after what he put up with, with the Israelites. Maybe you can add some of the story of how long you've made effort to follow the Lord's leading without throwing your hands up in exasperation after struggling with some very unthankful individuals. Of course with the little time we spend on this earth it's doubtful any of us will have the privilege of being resurrected by ourselves into heaven. Maybe we can just be happy to be included with all of the others who call upon the Lord who are promised salvation.

Cheers!

[Jasmin]

Redwood,

The reason you haven't come across anyone who claims to be sinless is because if you did then you would know that person was proud and so must by lying anyway.

So how do you prove that it is possible to stop sinning?

It is not by asking or looking at other people.

You need to look at yourself and ask "Has God helped me overcome any sins" Hopefully you have some experiance in overcoming at least one sin. If He can help you overcome one why can't He help you overcome all? The possibility is there. The problem is that many don't want to let go of some sins. It is not Gods Grace that is at fault - the provision is there to be sinless but many don't want it.

However the Bible says there will be people who will say enough is enough and part with sin. You see when you are sinless you are dead to self your eyes are on Christ constantly. Its like you are walking on a tightrope and you have a rope to hang on so you don't fall. You concentrate on holding on to the rope and not on falling. You don't go around boasting that you can walk on a tightrope. You are after all not doing it on your own. So why would someone want to say " I am sinless" it just would not make sense.

This is what Job says in Job 9: 20-21 " If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me : If I say, I am perfect, It shall also prove me perverse. Though I were perfect, yet would i not know my soul: I would despise my life"

When you get to heaven then you will know who the sinless ones are. You don't need to concern yourself about it here on earth. All we need to do is preach the word of God and although it may be uncomfortable to admit,it is very clear the Bible teaches we should and we can stop sinning.

Here are few examples Genesis 4:7 (God tells Cain he can overcome his sin)

Jesus tells the woman caught in adultery " go and sin no more.."

Philipians 2:14,15 " Do all things without murmurings and disputings, that you may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God without fault int he midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world " This is not talking about heaven but we are to be blameless among a crooked generation here on earth.

God bless and have a great Sabbath.

- Jasmin

[Lineman]

Originally Posted By: truthseeker007

"

Hmmm i am searching for years now. How long does it take to prove that these promises are false?

Well it took Moses at least 120 years to prove he was chosen of the Lord to lead the Israelites out of Egypt into the promised land.

Sorry, not sure I understand where the 120 years came from. I only find 40 years before Moses ran off into the desert, 40 years herding sheep, and 40 years wandering in the wilderness with the people of God. That is 120, but I don't see Moses taking that whole time proving his case.

Were you confusing Noah and Moses maybe, or am I missing something? Noah preached 120 years prior to the flood and the flood could be seen as proving his case, but by the time the rain came to prove that what he was saying was correct it was to late.

I think I understand what you are saying though. You are saying that we should not give up quite so easily as we do, right? Good point. There are several examples in the Bible of people who did not give up even when things looked totally hopeless. We could sure learn a thing or two from them.

My main concern here is with what TS said earlier. TS, it sounds like you are trying to prove God's promises false. Maybe you didn't mean it to sound like that? If you did are you just as willing to accept that God's promises are true? You could take eternity and NEVER find that His promises are false. I would suggest looking to see if they are true. You'll have better "luck".

dan

[guibox]

Saying that despite our sinful flesh, Christ can give us victory if we trust in Him allows for the fact that we ARE sinful and WILL fall short of the ideal. If we were perfect, we could not fail...but we aren't. Our broken lives and moral shortcomings (even those who have been fully converted) are proof of that.

Last generation theology and sinless perfection is different. Saying, that we must stand without a mediator and now have to rely on ourselves to not sin and thus lose our salvation is erroneous theology.

Someone please explain how this applies to all the saints before us who have passed on and didn't achieve sinless perfection?

Come on now, lets be honest.

If glorifcation of our new bodies doesn't allow for 'robotic' transformation but the characters we have 'perfected', then how could those people who've died before us ever be saved?

As for the arguments in favor of sinless perfection like 'overcoming with the Spirit's power' and 'it is not me but the Spirit'. Explain to me the how the patriarchs of the OT had the same access to the power of the Spirit but never achieved sinless perfection but proved how sinful they were even to the ends of their lives?

This is the false theology that happens when we simply make Christ our example "He didn't sin with the Spirit's power, therefore we can to!" instead of our substitute.

Plain and simple folks: If we could achieve sinless perfection with the power of the Spirit, Christ wouldn't have had to die.

[Guest truthseeker007]

"If we could achieve sinless perfection with the power of the Spirit, Christ wouldn't have had to die."

Very interesting statement. The reason why we die according to the bible is because we are all sinners. Now if the theology that we have to become perfect like Jesus is true, that implies that once we are forgiven we should live forever right? Jesus said, some of the people who were alive at his time would not see death.

What i believe is this, if we accept Jesus we ll receive eternal life in the spirit. Our bodies, although it is supposed to be the temple of God, are born in sin and remain sinfull even after we ve accepted Christ. That s why the new testament says the body is at war with the spirit and that if a Christian burnes with desire he should get a woman too. Our bodies will dissapear because they are sinfull, they are vehicles for a lifetime, but our spirit is supposed to live eternally.

I believe that once the holy spirit works in us and lives in us, we are better men but still not perfect because we do wrong things out of lack of knowledge, understanding etc. So the holy spirit is necessary to prepare a soul for heaven, but the sacrifice of Jesus is necessary to enter heaven. Once we are in heaven we ll be released from the sins of the flesh and a holy spirit in some kind of energetic body like the angels have, remains.