Problems with the clubadventist domain.

[Bravus]

Read up, brother Neil.

[John317]

Oh it was directed not at me or you but at Rush. I am positive.

I corrected it already. I'd neglected to add "not."

[Neil D]

I expected a "Bless you" to my 'attchoo'....

oh, well...yes, oh well...

[rush4hire]

Thank you, John317, for needlessly butchering my post, making a mess of it.

What you say here is the same as if I would say straights, or heterosexuals take women into the a dark ally and rape them. Some gays may do the things you describe, in which case both accuracy and fairness require you to say "some gays." Otherwise you leave the impression that it's something that you can expect from most or all gays.

[rush4hire]

Rush, you really are an unpleasant individual.

Matter of opinion, I'd say.

At least I stick to addressing the issues instead of attacking the person. Do I criticize the manner in which people come across? No. Because that's weak.

[rush4hire]

Quote:

And the term "gay" is a good adjective. It's like, a gang of gays will take you into a dark ally and rape you. That's gay.

Gay people will do everything they can to cause you to become gay, too. That's gay.

It's certainly not true that gays will do anything to cause a straight person to become gay.

OK, wait.

This is what I meant. I was just trying to describe why the word "gay" is used in a negative way, like it is. You have to see it from the perspective of a society that does not tolerate homosexuality, so "gay" is always negative, and never a good thing. It is always a condemned thing.

Growing up, homosexuality was never tolerated. It was NEVER an option. There where no gays, anywhere. As if we wanted to avoid the judgments of God on our land, at all costs:

[color:#BF0000]Lev. 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

....

18:25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

Even if we where not a people that wanted to serve God. God doesn't judge every land for not wanting to serve Him. He doesn't judge them for idolatry, and such things. But he does judge a land for these kinds of things.

[color:#BF0000]Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

....

1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

We didn't even have pleasure in those who do such things.

Gays where always shunned from society. And who are you to tell them they are wrong?

Concerning anyone who might have had problems with homosexuality, if they would have been fortunate enough, to have been born in such a land, they would have never gotten into that whole mess, in the first place.

So now, how do you judge?

[cricket]

Originally Posted By: cricket

Saying "that's so gay" is so yesterday.

Funny. But again, that's not what I said. Such a statement actually sounds gay.

I can only imagine a gay person saying something like "That's so gay!"

And the term "gay" is a good adjective. ..... That's gay.....

In the Philippines the gay population is out of control. Many times higher than in the US. It's noting to with genetics. They just let it get out of hand. They have gays on the popular shows on TV, broadcasting their gay influence.

And I'm not going to change my language to be politically correct to accommodate gays. You will have to shoot me first.

[Bravus]

Using a term for a group of people as a term for something bad is simply completely inappropriate. I know Christians have their issues with homosexuality that might obscure the point, so translate it: imagine if the slur was 'that's black' or 'that's Jewy'.

[Stan]

back to an earlier statement..

the word gay has a different meaning depending on your age.. to those under 25 or so, gay does NOT mean what my age group means homosexual.. it simply means 'stupid'

[Bravus]

That's true, I agree, but that meaning is definitely derived from it's earlier meaning about being homosexual, rather than arriving from somewhere else. Perhaps in 20 years or so it will be shorn of that association, but for right now I believe it is inappropriate for that reason - and for the hurt it has the potential to cause middle-aged gay people. As I said above, what if 'latino' came to mean dumb? Would it be OK to use it that way?

And then, of course, there's the offensive [censored] rush4hire spewed later in the thread in attempting to justify his use of the term. If he was using it in the sense you describe there, Stan, he would/should not have tied it back to the nonsense about homosexual rape and 'conversion'.

[Dr. Shane]

If I wasn't so considerate of others I would use the term "That's so Australian" when I didn't like something. But I have better manners than that

When someone passes gas in church can we say "That's so Adventist"? Just wondering...

Another problem I have with this new software (and it certainly isn't gay in any meaning of the word) is that when we get the weekly update in our email we have to cut and past the url's. Links don't work. That is like so '90s.

[Dr. Shane]

what if 'latino' came to mean dumb? Would it be OK to use it that way?

I cringe when I hear people say "I jewed them down" as a way of saying they got someone to lower the price of something. It is a way of reinforcing the sterotype that Jews are stingy. Not good in my book.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

JOHN317--It's certainly not true that gays will do anything to cause a straight person to become gay.

I didn't say that.

Your exact words were:

Quote:

Gay people will do everything they can to cause you to become gay, too.

Maybe you didn't mean to include all gays, or homosexuals, in your statement, but that is what your sentence means.

[Bravus]

Let me bring another example: our daughters never say 'Oh my God!' as a general expression in conversation, although all of their friends do. I agree that in general usage is king, and that words are defined by the way they are used. But in some instances there are other considerations - in this instance respect for God's name - that override the general rule.

I believe it's the same with the derogatory use of 'gay' - usage is not a sufficient argument to make it OK because it is disrespectful to people.

And again, the point is that clearly to rush who is the one who used it, the derogatory meaning is directly derived from the relation with homosexuality.

[John317]

back to an earlier statement..

the word gay has a different meaning depending on your age.. to those under 25 or so, gay does NOT mean what my age group means homosexual.. it simply means 'stupid'

Here in Southern California, among the teens, "gay" still means homosexual (or people they think are!). It's the main word they use for homosexual. If any of the young people here were to say, "he's gay," there would be no doubt what it meant.

Do you know what the connection is between the word "gay" and "stupid"? I assume you're describing the use of that word in Canada, or at least in some parts of it. Is it like that also in Australia as far as you know?

[Liz]

I know you were talking to the Australian and the Canadian people, but "gay" means "stupid" here too. And it isn't just the under 25 crowd that says it either; one can hear people of all ages using it that way. I am not saying it is right or condoning the usage, I am just saying.....

[Bravus]

The word is used in that way in the UK even more than in other countries, I believe. In Australia it's actually not all that common, even among teens, basically *because* they understand that it's offensive.

[John317]

What area of the country do you live in? I'm in the Palm Springs and Los Angeles Area, both of which have a large gay population.

I lived as a gay person for most of my adult life, until about 4 years ago now, and I had never heard of "gay" used to mean stupid-- but maybe that is because most of the people I know who use the word at all are gay themselves.

I read a lot of literature also, mostly American and British, and have never noticed its use that way.

Is it used on TV to mean "stupid" in the sitcoms or new movies? (I don't watch much TV, except for news and sports.)

I can see that H.L. Mencken, who wrote a huge volume called The American Language, needs to revise his work.

[John317]

The word is used in that way in the UK even more than in other countries, I believe. In Australia it's actually not all that common, even among teens, basically *because* they understand that it's offensive.

Have you noticed it being used that way in modern British literature-- poetry, stories, novels, etc.-- where the dialog of young people occurs?

[Bravus]

I'm in Brisbane, which is if anything a more conservative part of the country than Sydney and Melbourne, but I think Australian culture is generally a bit more sensitive and 'politically correct' (though I hate the term).

No, I don't think the term is being used that way in scripted TV shows. It might be appearing in reality TV, or among some radio DJs, but as I say, it's not that common in Australia, but I believe in the UK it's pretty prevalent.

Honestly, if rush had simply said "I don't like the Conspiracy forum, but I didn't realise the term 'gay' used this way was offensive, I'll choose another word", all would have been well. Instead he launched a scurrilous and inaccurate antigay diatribe.

[Liz]

I haven't noticed it on t.v. or sitcoms, but I live in the panhandle part of Texas. One can hear it in just about any store you walk into from bits and pieces of conversations. But then we are probably not the most politically correct group of people.

[John317]

What you say is interesting to me in light of the wikipedia article on the word "Gay":

Quote:

The term then began to be used in reference to homosexuality, in particular, from the early 20th century, a usage that may have dated prior to the 19th century. In modern English,[citation needed] gay has come to be used as an adjective (occasionally even as a noun) that refers primarily[citation needed] to homosexuality. By the end of the 20th century the word gay was recommended by major style guides to describe people attracted to members of the same sex. At about the same time, a new, pejorative use was visible in some parts of the world. In the UK and US, this connotation, among younger generations of speakers had a non-sexual derisive meaning equivalent to rubbish or stupid (as in "That's so gay.").

Could you give me two or so examples of how you have heard the word being used in conversation, etc., among young people in Texas?

I have 2 teen-age daughters (as well as a son in his twenties in Hawaii), and my eldest daughter here just told me that at the high school, the kids sometimes (not often) use "gay" to mean stupid, but she has never heard it used to mean rubbish. She said when they mean a girl who is homosexual, they would say "lesbian."

So I am learning something about language here today.

[Liz]

Alright, it could/would happen something like this:

Boy #1-opens up a door to walk through, and then psychs the other boy out, by making boy #2 think he is going to get hit by the door. Boy #1 says, "Psych". Boy #2 says, "Don't be gay."

Boy #1 is trying to impress Girl #1, and goes on and on about something about his car (I don't know what he was talking about I just knew he was trying to impress this girl). Apparantly he was getting some stuff wrong because Boy #1's buddy Boy #2 looks at him and says, "Could you be any more gay?" Maybe Boy #2 was also trying to impress Girl #1 too? And trying to make his buddy look bad? I don't know.

Anyways, if one hangs out at the local mall--say during lunch, one will hear these two conversations at least once, and more just like them.

Also, if someone were to just say so and so is "gay" one might be met with "Really? Why?" because we are asking what is making this person stupid, or we will say "Gay, Gay?" making the distinction that that person isn't stupid but rather homosexual. Depending how the person used the term "gay" will determine how the rest of that conversation ends.

This may have been more than you wanted to know?

[John317]

No, that's exactly what I was looking for. I need to hang out more at the malls, I guess. Thanks for that. It helps me understand.

I wonder if "gay" started being used that way-- meaning stupid and garbage-- because of its connection to homosexuals.

My experience with gays is that they are generally far from being stupid, and I would hate anyone to refer to any human as garbage, but I know it happens.

I believe that the practice of homosexuality is sin, yet it wouldn't ever even occur to me to think of homosexuals per se as being of less value than a heterosexual. I think that is a view, however, that may be encouraged by some Christians because they don't understand that God hates sin but loves the sinner.

It's real obvious to me that this is the kind of confused thinking that causes some people to hate homosexuals.

And at the same time I realize that there are some homosexuals (hopefully not too many) that make it easy for some Christians to hate them. I saw some on film the other night in San Francisco attacking two Christians.

[cricket]

Is the jury out yet? What is the acceptable use of the term "gay" for this forum?? The results might just send me packing.