Divorce

[Robert]

Matt 19:3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?" 4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." 7 "Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?" 8 Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Questions (and I have no axe to grind):

1] Does God recognize divorce outside "marital unfaithfulness"?

2] Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of hardened hearts. I take it that means an unforgiving heart?

3] If a spouse cheats and she or he insists on a divorce, but the other spouse forgives the cheating spouse, is there still grounds for divorce from God's point of view?

4] Is the spouse in # 3 divorced in the eye's of God if she or he insists on one?

Deep stuff,

Rob

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

what God has joined together, let man not separate

What if a believer marries an unbeliever? That is completely contrary to the written Word of God. Is God joining those two together? Does God recognize that as marriage?

Quote:

Is the spouse in # 3 divorced in the eye's of God if she or he insists on one?

Not sure the question here.

If a wife goes out committing adultery and then insists on a divorce, does she have Biblical grounds even though her husband is forgiving? My answer would be no. Furthermore, if the husband forgives her he no longer has Biblical grounds. However if she does it again, than he would have grounds again.

[phkrause]

Those are diffinetly some interesting and tough questions. Because there are many SDA marriage's and non SDA marriage's that, from what I read in the bible, have no grounds for divorce. They just married to young and now can't get along. Got married because they had to, or thought so, and now can't stand each other. I do believe that if people get divorced and later when they are convicted that this was wrong and they asked for forgiveness, that God will forgive them. I think if God is not the center of your marriage than people fill they can do whatever they want. My 2 cents worth Rob. Not sure if that is what your asking for as a reply.

pk

[Robert]

If a wife goes out committing adultery and then insists on a divorce, does she have Biblical grounds even though her husband is forgiving?

[Woody]

Personally .... I am a little extreme on this issue and do not recommend it to anyone . But, I don't believe that anyone should EVER initiate divorce. But when you find yourself in one of the above situations .... all you can do is to pray for the wisdom to do what God would have you to do.

But to give you an opinion as to your above question Rob. I would have to say that perhaps the State might recognize this person's divorce. I don't believe God does. In the eyes of God they are still married. And she would be held accountable for whatever actions she might partake in.

IMHO

Edit Note: When I say I don't recommend it to anyone ... I mean that I don't push my beliefs on anyone. We live in a difficult and sinful world. I don't think we can always do what is best. Instead ... we later have to suffer the consequences.

I don't think we as humans can always do what is best. Sometimes we have to learn and relearn. Like ... Please hit me over the head with a brick.

[Raphael]

Judiciously excellent, Redwood... that there is still hope amidst that vicious cycle of the head and the brick..

[Woody]

lol lol

Yes. I always try to carefully cover both sides of an issue so as not to offend anyone. We are sinners ... so there has to be room somewhere to sin. After all ... Jesus came and died for sinners ... of which I am the chief.

So ... we sin and He forgives. That is the cycle.

[Raphael]

If you are chief then what's left out for me? Perhaps I can be chieftain of the sinner tribe or clan.

I will not try to explain miracles, else they won't be called that way but I am sure that's how we are going to be able to live in heaven.

Is that called Faith, believing? That's the key, perhaps, that will wrought the impossible..

God bless,

Raphael

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

If you are chief then what's left out for me?

That's what I was wondering too...

[Robert]

...to give you an opinion as to your above question Rob.... In the eyes of God they are still married.

That's the way I see it....

Okay, let's make it more complicated:

Let's say the spouse that cheated returned. Should the couple remarry according to the State? I say this because in your answer you said that they were still married in the eyes of God.

In other words why remarry if they are already married?

But, in the eyes of the State, they would be living together.

[Gail]

Although if a spouse marries someone else, according to the Bible s/he is not to return to the former spouse and remarry that one.

[Gail]

The other night the movie Cleopatra was on, you know, the infamous one where Liz Taylor falls in love with Richard Burton. I think that they were both married at the time. When I think of the classic case of adultery, that comes to mind.

It was a case of the heart being WAY bigger than the head!

In Bible times both of them would have been stoned (or supposed to be, unlike the example of the woman caught in adultery that was brought to Jesus). But in the story of Hosea, his wife was not stoned but redeemed by him when she hit rock bottom. Hosea even adopted her bastard children.

God does have rules in place but He is the biggest believer in mercy.

[Robert]

in the story of Hosea, his wife was not stoned but redeemed by him when she hit rock bottom. Hosea even adopted her bastard children.

Where is the exact place this story is found?

Rob

[nuff sed]

Try the book of Hosea

[John317]

Around the second and third chapters will do for starters.

[Dr. Shane]

Let's say the spouse that cheated returned. Should the couple remarry according to the State? I say this because in your answer you said that they were still married in the eyes of God.

In other words why remarry if they are already married?

There are social security benefits for married couples. Specifically, survivor benefits.

I will say this. If my wife divorced me without Biblical grounds and later returned. I would not consider it sinful to have sexual relations with her even though we would be legally divorced.

[Robert]

Around the second and third chapters will do for starters.

That's what I wanted to know....

[Robert]

Try the book of Hosea

No?

[Robert]

I will say this. If my wife divorced me without Biblical grounds and later returned. I would not consider it sinful to have sexual relations with her even though we would be legally divorced.

I agree, but I doubt the SDA church would agree.

[Woody]

You might be surprised about the church Rob. Of course ... it would depend upon which SDA church. There are all kinds.

[Nan]

It might depend on whether either spouse had had an intervening relationship.

[Dr. Shane]

It would depend on that in part. But as far as I am concerned God does not recognize relationships between believers and non-believers as marriages. So unless she was cheating on me with a "brother," it wouldn't mean anything in the site of God, as far as I am concerned, other than being adultery.

[cricket]

What about in the eyes of your neighbors though? Doesn't it matter to God whether or not we carry ourselves above reproach? In other words, are we not to act in such a manner as to not cause others to stumble?

I'd be interested to know your thoughts if it were the case if she were cheating on you with a "brother". How would that be any different?

[olger]

Reconciliation is always best. When people resolve the issues that damage their marriage, they are free to love & be loved.

In the case of adultery, when the adulterer chooses to resolve his/her moral failure and the other spouse chooses to forgive, then they can rebuild the marriage into a stronger union. It takes time, and a comittment to the word of God.

Shane, I cringe when I see believers date an unbeliever. Dating & evangelism is a bad mix.

If we are married to an unbeliever, the Bible tells us to live in that situation and trust that our example with Christ will have a positive influence on the husband (1 Cor: 13-16). 1 Peter 3:1.

[LifeHiscost]

Deep stuff

"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given." Matthew 19:9-11 NIV

It is my assumption Jesus' last word was referring to His first statement. One could argue that He was referring to what the disciples concluded. Perhaps there might be someone on the forum who knows the original Greek or Hebrew tongue that could shed more light on the subject. I base my conclusion on Jesus' desire to meet men and woman in their weakness, not necessarily seeing His allowance as God's ideal.

"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." Matthew 26:41 KJV

Regards!