Divorce

[Tom Wetmore]

It is interesting to note that of the several gospel accounts of this conversation between Jesus and his disciples, only Matthew includes the exception phrase, "except for marital unfaithfulness". (One might suspect Matthew added that...) In the other accounts, Jesus does not qualify the fundamental pronouncement that what God has joined, no man is to take apart and that remarriage after divorce results in adultery. The disciples' response seems more consistent with an absolute - No divorce for any reason.

I read that as requiring forgiveness and reconciliation when unfaithfulness occurs. On this, I think olger and I are in agreement. Too often, unfaithfulness is viewed as an excuse or opportunity to escape a marriage by the faithful partner. Jesus' very strong emphasis on forgiveness says that forgiving 70X7 times means any marital problem is an opportunity to practice the divine gift of forgiveness.

A hard heart doesn't forgive. Jesus explained that it was because of this that any divorce was allowed by Moses, not because unfaithfulness is so unforgivable that divorce is the only option. The way Jesus states it suggests the divorce option was a Moses devised rule and not one given by God.

In my experience, the absolutely most essential ingredient in any marriage is forgiveness. No marriage can survive or thrive without it. Is it any wonder that Jesus so frequently likened our relationship with God to a marriage? The marriage supper of the Lamb is only possible, and is a divine celebration of eternal reconciliation made possible by that divine gift - forgiveness!

Tom

[Robert]

TU

[Robert]

You seem to have some insights here...so let me pose a question:

Let's say a couple gets together. She is still married, but her husband has abandoned her. They live together for 4 years and then marry. They weren't Christians during all this.

Then they become Christians shortly after marrying. The rocky marriage lasts about 21 years and she leaves the marriage because she's in love with another man that she has had an affair with.

Is she, in the eyes of God, still married? And if yes, to whom - the frist or second husband?

Rob

[Tom Wetmore]

Not have the ability to see things through God's eyes, I am not terribly confident that I can give a definitive answer. But I do have great confidence that God can sort these things out in ways we have no ability to discern.

The hint of this is Jesus' answer to a very similar conundrum posed by the Pharisees to trap him. It was the hypothetical of the 7 brothers marrying the same woman, by Jewish tradition and duty. The question was similar to yours, "In heaven [in heaven's eyes, or God's eyes] whose wife is she?" Jesus' answer leaves them with a result they had not anticipated - "Heaven is not what you think it is. Marriage is an earthly thing. God has a different agenda for heaven."

My opinion is that God sees her as married to all three men, and anyone else that she has had sex with.

But forgiveness trumps it all. Forgiveness means a fresh new start. Adulterers become virgins in heaven.

Tom

[Woody]

Quote:

Adulterers become virgins in heaven.

Where do you get these things Tom?

This one is mighty good. I will have to remember this one.

[olger]

It is interesting to note that of the several gospel accounts of this conversation between Jesus and his disciples, only Matthew includes the exception phrase, "except for marital unfaithfulness". (One might suspect Matthew added that...) In the other accounts, Jesus does not qualify the fundamental pronouncement that what God has joined, no man is to take apart and that remarriage after divorce results in adultery. The disciples' response seems more consistent with an absolute - No divorce for any reason.

I read that as requiring forgiveness and reconciliation when unfaithfulness occurs. On this, I think olger and I are in agreement. Too often, unfaithfulness is viewed as an excuse or opportunity to escape a marriage by the faithful partner. Jesus' very strong emphasis on forgiveness says that forgiving 70X7 times means any marital problem is an opportunity to practice the divine gift of forgiveness.

A hard heart doesn't forgive. Jesus explained that it was because of this that any divorce was allowed by Moses, not because unfaithfulness is so unforgivable that divorce is the only option. The way Jesus states it suggests the divorce option was a Moses devised rule and not one given by God.

In my experience, the absolutely most essential ingredient in any marriage is forgiveness. No marriage can survive or thrive without it. Is it any wonder that Jesus so frequently likened our relationship with God to a marriage? The marriage supper of the Lamb is only possible, and is a divine celebration of eternal reconciliation made possible by that divine gift - forgiveness!

Tom

Firm hand shake for Tom.

oG

[olger]

I don't have the judicial answer, but this might help a little bit in understanding the pathway to infidelity in your example, Robt.

Couples who are sexually involved prior to marriage have a much higher incidence of adultery. The reason is that they have "taught" each other how to commit infidelity.

After marriage, the gal cannot respond to the things that she should and she begins responding to the things that she shouldn't. And the same thing happens to the guy. They are programmed wrong. Unless Jesus re-wires their heart, they are several times more vulnerable to infidelity.

[Taylor]

It is interesting to note that of the several gospel accounts of this conversation between Jesus and his disciples, only Matthew includes the exception phrase, "except for marital unfaithfulness". (One might suspect Matthew added that...) In the other accounts, Jesus does not qualify the fundamental pronouncement that what God has joined, no man is to take apart and that remarriage after divorce results in adultery. The disciples' response seems more consistent with an absolute - No divorce for any reason.

I read that as requiring forgiveness and reconciliation when unfaithfulness occurs. On this, I think olger and I are in agreement. Too often, unfaithfulness is viewed as an excuse or opportunity to escape a marriage by the faithful partner. Jesus' very strong emphasis on forgiveness says that forgiving 70X7 times means any marital problem is an opportunity to practice the divine gift of forgiveness.

A hard heart doesn't forgive. Jesus explained that it was because of this that any divorce was allowed by Moses, not because unfaithfulness is so unforgivable that divorce is the only option. The way Jesus states it suggests the divorce option was a Moses devised rule and not one given by God.

In my experience, the absolutely most essential ingredient in any marriage is forgiveness. No marriage can survive or thrive without it. Is it any wonder that Jesus so frequently likened our relationship with God to a marriage? The marriage supper of the Lamb is only possible, and is a divine celebration of eternal reconciliation made possible by that divine gift - forgiveness!

Tom

Agreed Tom! Great comments.

[LifeHiscost]

In the other accounts, Jesus does not qualify the fundamental pronouncement that what God has joined, no man is to take apart and that remarriage after divorce results in adultery. Tom

Of course this conclusion still allows many to seek divorce as a solution allowed by God since there are probably far more unions of marraige in which God was never confided in before the principals made their decision and God was only a second thought after trouble became apparent. Then God was expected to fix the problem. I find no counsel that indicates a pastor giving his approval as indicating God gave His. Unless it might be this___

"And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 16:19 KJV

This of course, is used by some religious bodies to establish guilt but seems to me to be established by tradition and completely ignores individual choice and responsibility.

There is a translation that might be found more practical.

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind (declare to be improper and unlawful) on earth must be what is already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose (declare lawful) on earth must be what is already loosed in heaven." Matt 16:19 AMP

"Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." Romans 14:5 NIV

"....judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!" James 2:13 NIV

Blessings!

[Raphael]

I have a question which is very much in theme with the topic of this thread..

Since the institution of marriage will be abolition in heaven therefore there will no more be husband and wives or sex in heaven. Now, we all hear the saying that heaven starts here on earth and not when we arrive there.. does that mean the institution of marriage here on earth has already been abolished and perhaps is just being tolerated upon its existence, since this world has the mandate and license to be a zoo for almost anything imaginable..?

Raphael

[messenger]

Great post on marriage and forgiveness Tom! Well said, very true!

[messenger]

We have the promise of heaven but also the new earth. During the 1000 years the redeemed are in the Holy City with God and Christ Going over the books of record etc. After the 1000 years, then the Holy City comes down with God, Christ, angels and all the saints and then the final judgment of Satan and unrepentant sinners. After God destroys the earth, He will make a new earth, and the Holy City will be the capital of it.

Ellen White talks about the Garden of Eden being restored in the new earth etc. It is only my opinion, but before sin all that God had made was perfect and that included male and female the first marriage. It could be that in the new earth we will marry and have all the joys that Adam and Eve would of had if they had not fallen!

[nuff sed]

It is generally accepted that the phrase . "In that day there shall be neither marriage nor given in marriage" refers to the Resurrection. After that we have absolutely no clue, only conjecture.

[nuff sed]

I , personally, do not believe that we will be in Heaven looking over books for 1000 years. I believe that it will a short period of time. (Heaven time) However when we return to the Earth to see it remade, 1000 'earthyears' will have passed here.......but not for us.

[Liz]

I , personally, do not believe that we will be in Heaven looking over books for 1000 years. I believe that it will a short period of time. (Heaven time) However when we return to the Earth to see it remade, 1000 'earthyears' will have passed here.......but not for us.

That is interesting, I have never looked at it that way before.

[messenger]

Originally Posted By: Gladussee

I , personally, do not believe that we will be in Heaven looking over books for 1000 years. I believe that it will a short period of time. (Heaven time) However when we return to the Earth to see it remade, 1000 'earthyears' will have passed here.......but not for us.

That is interesting, I have never looked at it that way before.

It is interesting, I do agree with it, the bible say 1000 years as is like one day with God. For the redeemed in heaven looking at the books of record to vindicate God's justice etc. It may only be one day, but in earth years, 1000 years may pass. Of course some of this is just speculation. But the Apostle John says, after the 1000 years etc. But I hope it is true or what would it matter if it was not true that it will be more like one day, I will still be glad to be there either way.

But the main point that I was trying to make in my original post was, during the 1000 years in heaven the things we do there maybe be different then after 1000 years when God makes the new earth. We maybe living like Adam and Eve did when it was all perfect and maybe even able to marry like they did! God said it was not good for man to be alone...

[phkrause]

Interesting thought.

pk