Sunday Law--fact or fiction???

[Kountzer]

To respond to the original title of this thread Sunday Laws are real. All you have to do is google the phrase and see what comes up. Blue laws are on the books in at least 36 states. In the past people have been put in jail for no adhering to certain sunday worship laws. In medieval europe millions of people were put to death, burned at the stake for worshipping on the true sabbath. There's nothing new under the sun. Religius persecution in regards to sunday worship has been around for centuries.

[guibox]

Let's imagine the world in a crisis situation where it looks like the very existence of mankind is at stake--whether from disease, nuclear war, famine, massive earth quakes, economic collapse, a rising ocean level, meteors, "alien invasion," etc.-- and Satan and other fallen angels appear and appeal for governments to pass certain laws. Further, let's suppose Satan gives "proof" that he is a risen apostle or prophet and he claims that God has sent him to deliver a message to the entire world as to how to survive. He explains what humanity must do-- make laws establishing morality and a day of worship of God. The whole world can see him on live TV. When then? I believe that if the world was in the grave, desperate situation the prophecies describe, the people and the governments of the world would change rapidly and make decisions to implement the Sunday laws.

What you are describing is an extreme measure, and an extreme measure is what it would take for the global compromise and enforcement we expect from a Sunday Law. First though,I'm not sure why a Sunday law enforcement would be needed or useful in this scenario. If thing get that bad, a Sunday law is nothing more than a law. I just don't see 'Sunday' as a rallying factor here or something that is really effective. Not without stretching the limits of imagination. At this point in time, the anti-Christ would need to be followed and worshipped. The issue at the end times is false worship vs true worship. Not necessarily Sabbath vs Sunday. When things get this bad, the deception needs to be at it's worst...persecuting Sabbath keeping Christians just doesn't seem like a priority.

Second, because a doomsday scenario like the one you put forth is what it would take, we should't be getting our panties in a bunch everytime Pope Benedict meets with rulers. So what? PJP II was doing it for years even inthe worst economic and political crisises of certain nations' histories. I can't even count the times when I heard my father or other people claim 'the end times are here!' when something ominous having to do with church/state relations occurred. It's been going on for years.

Church state amalgamation was at it's peak in the 80s with the Religous Right wanting to enforce religion politically. That would have been an ideal time for Sunday laws to begin to take affect. Nothing happened there. Today we are even further away from that mentality. We have become more secular, not more religious.

When the nuclear bombs start flying and all the world and church leaders are meeting in secret rooms,then I would be concerned.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Let's imagine the world in a crisis situation where it looks like the very existence of mankind is at stake--whether from disease, nuclear war, famine, massive earth quakes, economic collapse, a rising ocean level, meteors, "alien invasion," etc.-- and Satan and other fallen angels appear and appeal for governments to pass certain laws. Further, let's suppose Satan gives "proof" that he is a risen apostle or prophet and he claims that God has sent him to deliver a message to the entire world as to how to survive. He explains what humanity must do-- make laws establishing morality and a day of worship of God. The whole world can see him on live TV. When then? I believe that if the world was in the grave, desperate situation the prophecies describe, the people and the governments of the world would change rapidly and make decisions to implement the Sunday laws.

What you are describing is an extreme measure, and an extreme measure is what it would take for the global compromise and enforcement we expect from a Sunday Law. First though,I'm not sure why a Sunday law enforcement would be needed or useful in this scenario. If thing get that bad, a Sunday law is nothing more than a law. I just don't see 'Sunday' as a rallying factor here or something that is really effective.....

What do you understand to be the purpose of the Sunday Law in the Seventh-day Adventist view of prophecy? What does Satan want to accomplish through such a law?

Notice that Rev. 13: 15 portrays the beast-power as pronouncing a death sentence against anyone who does not worship the image of the beast.

On the other hand, notice what dire warning God pronounces against those who do worship the image of the beast and receive its mark. Rev. 14: 11.

Rev. 14: 12 makes it very clear that those who keep the commandments of God won't receive the mark of the beast. Therefore it is plain that the beast is trying to force everyone to do something that is a violation of the commandments of God.

According to Revelation 13 through 18, the whole world will finally be divided into two camps: (1) the first camp, made up of most of the world's population, will consist of those who follow after, and worship, the image of the beast; (2) the second camp, referred to as the remnant of the woman's seed, will consist of those who keep the commandments of God, hold to their faith in Jesus, and hold the testimony of Jesus, which is the spirit of prophecy.

Rev. 12: 17 says that Satan is angry with the woman and her "seed," and it is clear that Satan is out to destroy those who refuse to worship the image of the beast.

The question is, why is Satan so angry with this group which keep the commandments of God and hold to their faith in Jesus and hold the testimony of Jesus?

And finally what does Satan hope to accomplish by forcing everyone to worship the image of the beast?

[guibox]

dgrimm,

I'm not saying that the events of Revelation 13 will never happen before the second coming of Christ. I'm not denying that we are living in the last days.

What I'm saying is that I don't believe things will happen like we as the SDA church have been saying it will.

I think to reduce the events of Revelation 13 to simply'Sabbath vs Sunday' is really limiting the understanding of the issues of the end times which is 'true worship' vs 'false worship' and 'anti-Christ power vs God's power'. I believe Islam and global terrosim have more clout to bring on these things than Sunday worship.

There is nothing happening today, even the Pope meeting with other nations' leaders that give us any inkling that something of the doomsday scenario as Adventism describes it, will happen. I just don't see being 'forced to 'go to church on a day' as a possibility of a fulfillment of the events occurring Revelation 13 or Matthew 24.

Imagine this scenario...

'The world's going to hell!!! Nuclear war! Terrorism! Falling meteor showers, what do we do??? I've got an idea! Let's make people go to church on Sunday and persecute those who go to church on Saturday!'

Hmmm.....

Amidst all this chaos and precursor to Christ's coming, the idea that if you step foot in a church on Sunday you are damned to hell just seems illogical, unfair and completely out of place for the seriousness of the events of Revelation 13.

Frankly, Islam and terrorism are more earth shaking forces than the Pope and blue laws.

At the moment, I remain an agnostic on this matter. I'm not going to fret and worry because some people in the US want religion to be made into laws or the pope is meeting with people. This has been going on for decades.

Wait for the big, earth shaking event that will change the paradigm of thinking. THEN you have need to worry.

[phkrause]

Things can happen very rapidly. But I have to agree with Redwood, I'm not concerned about the Sunday Law. When it comes it comes. We just have to be ready for our Lord and Saviour everyday. Somewhere I read once, not sure where or who, Live as if God was coming today but plan for the future.

pk

[guibox]

Rev. 14: 12 makes it very clear that those who keep the commandments of God won't receive the mark of the beast. The question is, why is Satan so angry with this group which keep the commandments of God and hold to their faith in Jesus and hold the testimony of Jesus?

And finally what does Satan hope to accomplish by forcing everyone to worship the image of the beast?

[BSW]

Anyone heard of the 10 commandments commission?

The Ten Commandments Commision - A Judeo-Christian Initiative for a Better Tomorrow

The Ten Commandments Commission was formed in the spring of 2005. The main purpose of the organization is to rally public officials, community leaders, international diplomats and grassroots activists to instill Judeo-Christian values in society.

How are these so called values to be instilled?

Why yes, thru legislation...cool...

google 10 commandments day and see the power of apostate protestantism in all her hateful glory.

" As the Sabbath has become the special point of controversy throughout Christendom, and religious and secular authorities have combined to enforce the observance of the Sunday, the persistent refusal of a small minority to yield to the popular demand, will make them objects of universal execration. It will be urged that the few who stand in opposition to an institution of the church and a law of the State, ought not to be tolerated; that it is better for them to suffer than for whole nations to be thrown into confusion and lawlessness. The same argument eighteen hundred years ago was brought against Christ by the "rulers of the people." "It is expedient for us," said the wily Caiaphas, "that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not." [JOHN 11:50.] This argument will appear conclusive; and a decree will finally be issued against those who hallow the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, denouncing them as deserving of the severest punishment, and giving the people liberty, after a certain time, to put them to death. Romanism in the Old World, and apostate Protestantism in the New, will pursue a similar course toward those who honor all the divine precepts.{GC88 615.1}

But be of good cheer, Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.

To think that oppression of God's true and faithful will come from any direction than that which has been revealed is very dangerous.

Are we to be afraid of this momumental landmark? uh. no. but as has been stated we sure better be loving as Christ loved, or we will be passed over. IMO

Peace.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

Rev. 14: 12 makes it very clear that those who keep the commandments of God won't receive the mark of the beast. The question is, why is Satan so angry with this group which keep the commandments of God and hold to their faith in Jesus and hold the testimony of Jesus?

And finally what does Satan hope to accomplish by forcing everyone to worship the image of the beast?

Why are you limiting yourself to the letter of the law?

I'm not. But people can't be said to keep the Ten Commandments if they refuse to keep one of them and say it's been cancelled or abolished. The people described in Rev. 12: 17 and 14: 13 are keeping ALL of the Ten Commandments, not just nine of them. That means they will be keeping the Sabbath commandment. They don't believe any of them have been abolished. That's significant.

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Don't you think that there are God fearing, born again Christians who may not follow the law like you do?

Yes, certainly. But that is not the question in the context of the end-times as described in Rev. 12-18.

Most Christians do believe they should obey the commandments, except for the fourth commandment. They may say we should obey the commandments, but then when the Sabbath is referred to, they say that Christians aren't under the law and therefore do not have to pay attention to what the commandments say. They wouldn't think of saying it's legalistic to obey the seventh commandment or any others, but many Christians who otherwise support the Ten Commandments, consider Sabbath keeping as necessarily legalistic.

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Are you saying that their zeal for God and their soul winning aren't really important?

No, not necessarily. God alone knows if we have true faith.

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That those christians don't deserve Satan's wrath?

Satan is not happy when anyone accepts Christ.

However, Satan has a reason for being particularly angry with those who by faith and by the power of God's Spirit are obeying all of God's commandments and seeking to have the characters of Christ and overcome sin as Jesus overcame sin.

Quote:

That he hates them less? Why? Because they worship God on Sunday??

Satan has a special hatred for the commandments of God and particularly for the Sabbath, because of what it stands for. It points to God as our Creator and is a weekly reminder that we owe Him our lives because He not only made us but that He also delivers us from slavery to sin.

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Do you not think the dragon is just as wroth with those who keep the commandments 'written in the tables of the heart', the 'spiritual application of them as opposed to the letter of the law?

The Bible says Satan is angry with those who keep the commandments of God. Rev. 12:17. He may be angry at other Christians, but the NT says clearly that he's angry at those who keep the commandments of God. It's an identifying mark.

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So if I observe Sabbath and all the other 10 commandments faithfully but don't really have any faith, Satan is more angry with me than Sunday keeping-Suzie who is winning souls for Christ's kingdom?

That is very narrow minded.

Yes, it would be narrow minded if I said that but I didn't say that.

Rev. 12: 17 and 14: 12 describes a people who are keeping the 10 commandments and do have faith. It says specifically that they "hold to the faith of Jesus."

What does Satan hope to accomplish by forcing everyone to worship the image of the beast?

[John317]

What do you understand to be the purpose of the Sunday Law in the Seventh-day Adventist view of prophecy?

[melvin mccarty]

Is there a commandment that one must work on Sunday? Do you believe that is implied in the fourth commandment? That would make it a sin to have a picnic and a ball game on Sunday?

A law making it illegal to worship on Saturday could bring hardship but to refrain from work on Sunday is not neccesarily a hardship for anyone. Why the fuss about "Sunday laws"?...mel

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

This is an assumption. The identification of the remnant is not directly linked with the events of the final act of Revelation 13. You are assuming things that the bible doesn't directly support:

1) That Revelation 12:17 carries over into Revelation 13 [/quote']

Remember that the original has no chapter divisions. Rev. 12: 17 describes the people of God, and Rev. 13 describes the powers through which Satan works in his war against God. As part of that war, Satan attacks the woman and her seed. The woman is God's church, and the remnant of the woman's seed is the last part of God's church living near the end of earth's history. These are contrasted with the the powers at odds with God, which attempt to force everyone to disobey God.

[messenger]

Is there a commandment that one must work on Sunday? Do you believe that is implied in the fourth commandment? That would make it a sin to have a picnic and a ball game on Sunday?

A law making it illegal to worship on Saturday could bring hardship but to refrain from work on Sunday is not neccesarily a hardship for anyone. Why the fuss about "Sunday laws"?...mel

According to the SOP we have in the writings of Ellen White. There will be different phases of Sunday Law enforcement. It might begin with the legislation enforcement for religious reasons try to get people back to God in the Sunday in hopes He will stop all the trouble that is coming on the world etc. Another phase to get more compliance could be to make it fine or penalty to those who do not. And when they are still not satisfied it is enough they will blame all the trouble on those who still keep the 7th-day Sabbath and demand that they stop keeping it, God is cursing us still, until they keep Sunday too etc. And when that does not work it will be followed by a death decree on all those true Sabbath keepers etc. If you have not done so already I recommend you read the book Great Controversy by Ellen White

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

Per the “vast majority of translations” – I suppose there is reason I prefer the KJV and YLT.

>>And they agree with the vast majority of translations, as shown below. They both read "hasting" or "hasting the coming." It's the same thing.<<

Not so, John317. The reading of the KJV and YLT are diametrically opposed to the translations which you’ve posted as examples of the “vast majority”...

Both the KJV and YLT provide translations which harmonize “hasting to/unto” with the preceding “Looking for...” in the ‘sense’ of passage – as opposed to rendering it moot by a conjunctively, oxymoronic, contrary or oppositional ‘translation’ of the following phrase.

The translations I’ve provided as examples harmonize “looking...” and “hasting.../earnestly desiring” – both sides of the conjunctive – without the circumlocution evident in the translated “hastening the coming...”.

It seems presumptuous to advance the idea that if enough of us are Christlike – that fact imposes upon Jesus Christ the necessity to alter the time of His Parousia – regardless the implicit continuity of events as they are prophesied to occur upon earth.

Quote:

Quote:jasd

American King James Version

12) Looking for and hastening to the coming

Webster’s Bible Translations

12) Looking for and hasting to

King James Version

12) Looking for and hasting unto

Young’s Literal Translation

12) waiting for and hasting to

>>The above 4 translations mean "hasting the coming," or hurrying the coming. "Hasting" is an archaic word for "hasten" or "hurry."<< [ed.jasd]

Begging to disagree... they, in fact, do not, John317. Butter means butter when it’s spread upon toast. ‘Butter’ does not carry the same meaning when compounded with ‘fly’. The ‘sense of the passage’ requires such as “earnestly desiring” rather than a preemptory imposition upon the Parousia.

It seems unreasonable to suppose that one might ‘tarry expectantly’ as well as to “hasten the coming”. The terms mutually exclude...

>>My 1611 edition of the KJV has in the margin, "Or hasting the coming."<<

Though it is error on the part of the party(ies) who added the margin notation, I still prefer the KJV.

Quote:

Quote:John317

haste |h&#257;st|

noun

excessive speed or urgency of movement or action; hurry : working with feverish haste | : I write in haste.

verb

archaic term for hasten

#4692 hasting. speudo—to “speed” (“study”), i.e. urge on (diligently or earnestly); by impl. to await eagerly:-- (make, with) haste unto.

[jasd]

>>Please explain how "looking for" is directly opposed to "hastening" the Second Coming.<<

Have anticipated you in my above post.

>>That is precisely what Kenneth Wuest has in his translation. (See The New Testament, An Expanded Translation.) The NRSV, New Jerusalem Bible, and many, many more have the same.<<

I’ve left-off quoting from Commentaries – as the text, when its salient points are drawn – require only our own understanding.

>>You've said that you prefer the KJV and RYL, but these also give the same meaning if not the identical words.<<

Not so, John317.

>>The Jewish New Testament has, "as you wait... and work to hasten the day of God...." These actually go quite well together and are not out of harmony with each other.<<

They are, unfortunately, in error. That ‘interpretation’ presumes ( by our ‘smallish’ selves) upon the prophetic ‘word of Gd’ – that same, by which He swears.

>>I think that if it were to say, "looking for and earnestly desiring," it is far more redundant.<<

Or..., a poetic parallel – a Hebraic idiosyncrasy...

>>In any case, all of the best translations-- and by far the vast majority-- as well as the Greek Lexicons, give "hasten the coming" at 2 Peter 3: 12.<<

If you wish...

>>I am not denying that it may be translated as "earnestly desiring." But on the basis of the weight of evidence, I agree with the Robert Young, the NASB, the NKJV, NRSV, and many more, that it is best translated as "haste" or "hasten."<<

I reprise: it is preposterous to suggest that a few who’ve developed Christlikeness (that, itself, minimizes Jesus Christ) impose upon the very prophetic words of Gd.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

St Luke, in Acts 17:29, utilized “graven” rather than “mark”; ... charagma.

>>In Acts 17: 29, the word means "image" or "sculpture."<<

Exactly. So, in what manner were those images and sculptures manufactured? They were graved.

>>That is the only occurrence of this word outside the book of Revelation. The only others are Rev. 13: 16, 17; 14: 9, 11; 16: 2; 19: 20; and 20: 4. In all these verses it is translated "mark."<<

And, Acts 17:29, is the ‘defining’ text; that is, it provides the expositor the ‘guideline’, which steers him or her away from the numinosity of ‘spiritualizing’ that which is meant to be read literally.

>>All of the above verses have to do with worship of the beast-power, which is a matter of the mind and the will.<<

Are you proposing that that conflicts with a ‘literal’ interpretation of text?

>>If the "mark" is a physical mark that can be forced upon people against their will, it would not have the spiritual significance that it obviously has in the book of Revelation.<<

Obviously? So, the angels “flying in the midst of heaven” may be thought to be satellites with solar panel ‘wings’?

>>The very essence of the mark relates to the choice people are making. It is difficult to conceive, therefore, why God would allow someone to be lost because of a physical mark on their bodies, which a person may be compelled to receive in spite of their choice.<<

That’s it. They have choice. They can either become a part of a Babylonian [cashless] money system, or they can reject worth-ship of same – depending instead, upon the Lord Gd fully for their sustenance: read, Faith.

Or, it may be that the two witnesses, who witness to the entire world, reinstitutes the OT condemnation against marking the body.

:-o Anyway...

#5480 mark; charagma—from the same as 5482; a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or sculptured figure (statue):--graven, mark.

#5482 (translated as “trench” once in Luke 19:43); charax—to sharpen to a point; akin to 1125 through the idea of scratching); a stake, i.e. (by impl.) a palisade or rampart (military mound for circumvallation in a siege):--trench.

One readily perceives that the Greek word charagma (mark) brings to view the idea of graving, scratching, or etching.

The most common computer chips are manufactured with a photo-etching process. Seems awfully analogous that the ‘mark’ of Revelation bears a similitude to an embedded chip. Moreover,

the final phase of a chip's manufacture involves passage through a micro-mist of the element gold (the number 666 is associated with gold in Holy Writ). Chips, shortly, are envisioned to be etched with an X-ray process – permitting manufacture of a chip so small that it might easily pass through the skin utilizing a carrier chemical such as the solvent DMSO.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:John317

But people can't be said to keep the Ten Commandments if they refuse to keep one of them and say it's been cancelled or abolished. The people described in Rev. 12: 17 and 14: 13 are keeping ALL of the Ten Commandments, not just nine of them. That means they will be keeping the Sabbath commandment. They don't believe any of them have been abolished.

I propose that we acknowledge St John’s distinctive use of the words nomos and entole – and how he relates them to The Law and to the commandments of the NT Jesus Christ.

It may be that where some read “Tables of Stone” together with the salient fourth – we may find that St John emphasizes a New Testamental ‘love’.

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Quote:John317

Satan attacks the woman and her seed. The woman is God's church, and the remnant of the woman's seed is the last part of God's church living near the end of earth's history.

One cannot have it both ways. Either the woman of Revelation 12 is the woman who births the manchild Jesus Christ – who is subsequently caught up – or the woman is, indeed, the church, the ekklesia, and cannot have birthed the manchild, Jesus Christ. I mention that as

it was that in stating He would build His church upon the stone that Jesus Christ apprised us that, in His use of the future tense, the church had not yet been built. His ‘church’ did not yet then exist.

It may be that the 'old school' may want to revisit Revelation 12 with the above in mind.

[guibox]

However, Satan has a reason for being particularly angry with those who by faith and by the power of God's Spirit are obeying all of God's commandments and seeking to have the characters of Christ and overcome sin as Jesus overcame sin.

Oh brother. This is nothing more than another justification for 'sinless perfection'. Brother, there are millions of good keeping SDAs spiritually flogging themselves to get themselves 'safe to save' by keeping the Sabbath to every jot and tittle. Meanwhile, there are wonderful Sunday keeping Christians who try to overcome sin and live victoriously all the time. Just because we claim to keep all the 10 commandments doesn't mean that we hold a special place in the hatred of Satan's heart. Please.

According to your reasoning it is only the good 'last generational' Adventists that are going to be incurring Satan's wrath and be saved. Why? Because they somehow have managed to keep God's law perfectly!

So what?

Why would Satan be so impressed?? Satan would hate us because he can't get us because we are saved by the blood of the lamb and His covering robe of righteousness. THAT'S why he hates Christians.

Frankly, Satan would love those kinds of people, not hate them. It is much easier to snag them into legalism and salvation by works. It is not the 'sin overcomers' that Satan hates. It's the Christian lovers and those who spit at Satan because they know that they are saved by grace that he would hate more.

Let's get over ourselves and our egocentric, 'we're special cause we keep the law',Pharisaical thinking. I don't think Satan is impressed enough for us to warrant his hatred because we don't go swimming on Sabbath.

[John317]

The angels represent people giving the Three Angels' Messages. God sends human beings to proclaim the gospel, not angels. They symbolizes an urgent message which God gives through humans.

Remember that the book of Revelation relates the message through signs and symbols. Rev. 1: 1-- they were "sign-i-fied." For instance, Jesus is pictures as a lamb, and later He is pictured as having a sharp sword coming out of his mouth.

[Woody]

Quote:

Oh brother. This is nothing more than another justification for 'sinless perfection'. Brother, there are millions of good keeping SDAs spiritually flogging themselves to get themselves 'safe to save' by keeping the Sabbath to every jot and tittle. Meanwhile, there are wonderful Sunday keeping Christians who are overcoming sin all the time.

You make some very good points here that need to be said. Sadly ... they are rarely seen or heard in some Adventist circles. So, I appreciate you saying them.

It is so good to have you here on the forum.

[John317]

>>Please explain how "looking for" is directly opposed to "hastening" the Second Coming.<<

Have anticipated you in my above post.

>>That is precisely what Kenneth Wuest has in his translation. (See The New Testament, An Expanded Translation.) The NRSV, New Jerusalem Bible, and many, many more have the same.<<

I’ve left-off quoting from Commentaries – as the text, when its salient points are drawn – require only our own understanding.

These are not commentaries. Kenneth Wuest is a professor of NT Greek and translated the NT.

The Concordant Literal renders 2 Peter 3: 13 as, "... and hurrying the presence of God's day..."

Rotherham's Emphasized has, "hastening the coming..."

The Revised English Bible has, " and work to hasten it on..."

The same is given in the NKJV; NASB; RSV; and about 45 other translations.

In The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament (Moulton and Milligan), p. 583, it gives numerous examples from the ancient papyri in which the same word means "hasten," and it gives this as the correct translation of it in 2 Peter 3: 12.

This primary source quotes some ancient texts, using the word speudo--

"I am anxious to make haste..." "for the help of the gods I am hastening to set out to you."

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

However, Satan has a reason for being particularly angry with those who by faith and by the power of God's Spirit are obeying all of God's commandments and seeking to have the characters of Christ and overcome sin as Jesus overcame sin.

Oh brother. This is nothing more than another justification for 'sinless perfection'.

Now, while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us, we should seek to become perfect in Christ. Not even by a thought could our Saviour be brought to yield to the power of temptation. Satan finds in human hearts some point where he can gain a foothold; some sinful desire is cherished, by means of which his temptations assert their power. But Christ declared of Himself: "The prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. Satan could find nothing in the Son of God that would enable him to gain the victory. He had kept His Father's commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble.

It is in this life that we are to separate sin from us, through faith in the atoning blood of Christ. Our precious Saviour invites us to join ourselves to Him, to unite our weakness to His strength, our ignorance to His wisdom, our unworthiness to His merits. God's providence is the school in which we are to learn the meekness and lowliness of Jesus. The Lord is ever setting before us, not the way we would choose, which seems easier and pleasanter to us, but the true aims of life. It rests with us to co-operate with the agencies which Heaven employs in the work of conforming our characters to the divine model. None can neglect or defer this work but at the most fearful peril to their souls. GC 623

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with My Father in His throne." We can overcome. Yes; fully, entirely. Jesus died to make a way of escape for us, that we might overcome every evil temper, every sin, every temptation, and sit down at last with Him.Testimonies For The Church Volume One (1855-1868), page 144, paragraph 2

If you will stand under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel, faithfully doing His service, you need never yield to temptation, for One stands by your side who is able to keep you from falling. . . . That I May Know Him (1964), page 200, paragraph 4

The tempter's agency is not to be accounted an excuse for one wrong act. Satan is jubilant when he hears the professed followers of Christ making excuses for their deformity of character. It is these excuses that lead to sin. There is no excuse for sinning. A holy temper, a Christlike life, is accessible to every repenting, believing child of God. The Desire of Ages (1898), page 311, paragraph 3

Christ came to this earth and lived a life of perfect obedience, that men and women, through his grace, might also live lives of perfect obedience. This is necessary to their salvation. Without holiness no man shall see the Lord. The Review and Herald, March 15, 1906, paragraph 8

The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not overcome. Christ came to make us "partakers of the divine nature," and His life declares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin. MH 180

Through the plan of redemption, God has provided means for subduing every sinful trait, and resisting every temptation, however strong.--The Review and Herald,Dec. 22, 1885. Selected Messages Book 1 (1958), page 82, paragraph 3

Do not settle down in Satan's easy chair, and say that there is no use, you cannot cease to sin, that there is no power in you to overcome. There is no power in you apart from Christ, but it is your privilege to have Christ abiding in your heart by faith, and He can overcome sin in you, when you cooperate with His efforts. . . . You may be living epistles, known and read of all men. You are not to be a dead letter, but a living one, testifying to the world that Jesus is able to save. Our High Calling (1961), page 76, paragraph 5

Of the Spirit Jesus said, "He shall glorify Me." The Saviour came to glorify the Father by the demonstration of His love; so the Spirit was to glorify Christ by revealing His grace to the world. The very image of God is to be reproduced in humanity. The honor of God, the honor of Christ, is involved in the perfection of the character of His people.

The Desire of Ages (1898), page 671, paragraph 3

All the humiliation which Christ endured was in behalf of the fallen race, that man might have the mind of Christ. Christ revealed to the world the love of God for fallen man and the perfect love which he bore his Father. And in humanity this same love is to be revealed. In the fallen race the very image of God is to be reflected. The cold heart is to be quickened and glow with divine love. It is to beat in unison with the heart of the Redeemer. The honor of Christ must stand complete in the perfection of the character of his chosen people. He desires that they shall represent his character to the world. In the work of redemption, in the sufferings which Christ was called upon to endure, you are to co-operate with him, that you may be complete in him. In being united to him by faith, believing and receiving him, you become part of himself. Your character is his glory revealed in you. Then, when you shall appear in his presence, you will find the benediction awaiting you, "Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things; I will make thee ruler over the many things; enter thou into the joy of thy Lord."

The Signs of the Times , November 25, 1897, paragraph 11

He who has not sufficient faith in Christ to believe that he can keep him from sinning, has not the faith that will give him an entrance into the kingdom of God. RH 03/10/1904 Par. 26

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

However, Satan has a reason for being particularly angry with those who by faith and by the power of God's Spirit are obeying all of God's commandments and seeking to have the characters of Christ and overcome sin as Jesus overcame sin.

Oh brother. This is nothing more than another justification for 'sinless perfection'...

Check out Matthew Henry's commentary on 2 Peter 3--

The apostle, having instructed them in the doctrine of Christ’s second coming, I. Takes occasion thence to exhort them to purity and godliness in their whole conversation: all the truths which are revealed in scripture should be improved for our advancement in practical godliness: this is the effect that knowledge must produce, or we are never the better for it. If you know these things, happy are you if you do them. Seeing all these things must be dissolved, how holy should we be, that are assured of it, departing from and dying to sin, that has so corrupted and defiled all the visible creation that there is an absolute need of its dissolution! All that was made for man’s use is subject to vanity by man’s sin: and if the sin of man has brought the visible heavens, and the elements and earth, under a curse, from which they cannot be freed without being dissolved, what an abominable evil is sin, and how much to be hated by us! And, inasmuch as this dissolution is in order to their being restored to their primitive beauty and excellency, how pure and holy should we be, in order to our being fit for the new heaven and new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness! It is a very exact and universal holiness that he exhorts to, not resting in any lower measure or degree, but labouring to be eminent beyond what is commonly attained—holy in God’s house and in our own, holy in our worshipping of God and in our conversing with men. All our conversation, whether with high or low, rich or poor, good or bad, friends or enemies, must be holy. We must keep ourselves unspotted from the world in all our converses with it. We must be perfecting holiness in the fear of God, and in the love of God too. We must exercise ourselves unto godliness of all sorts, in all its parts, trusting in God and delighting in God only, who continues the same when the whole visible creation shall be dissolved, devoting ourselves to the service of God, and designing the glorifying and enjoyment of God, who endures for ever; whereas what worldly men delight in and follow after must all be dissolved. Those things which we now see must in a little while pass away, and be no more as they now are: let us look therefore at what shall abide and continue, which, though it be not present, is certain and not far off. This looking for the day of God is one of the directions the apostle gives us, in order to our being eminently holy and godly in all manner of conversation.

[John317]

Richard Weymouth wrote that the verse literally says "hastening."

Weymouth has in his margin: "Literally, 'expecting and hastening.'"

Original edition, 1909, 1912.

John Wesley wrote in his commentary on this verse that "haste unto" means "hastening on."

Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

Looking for (prosdokwntaß). Present active participle of prosdokaw (Matthew 11:3) agreeing in case (accusative plural) with umaß. Earnestly desiring (speudontaß). Present active participle, accusative also, of speudw, old verb, to hasten (like our speed) as in Luke 2:16, but it is sometimes transitive as here either (preferably so) to "hasten on the parousia" by holy living (cf. 1 Peter 2:12)

[John317]

American King James Version

12) Looking for and hastening to the coming

I would point out that here the Greek word speudo has been translated by the word "hastening," and the translators added the word "to" which does not occur in the original. The same applies to the KJV of 1611, and Robert Young's literal. These all agree with the following translations and dozens more I could give.

Quote:

Bible Commands Not to Trivialize or Deny the Rapture, (..that We are to be Working for the Rapture, to HASTEN IT!-2PETER 3:9-14, includes “…”Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God

The notes in the Companion Bible of the KJV has "hasting unto= hastening." As mentioned before, the margin in the original, 1611 printings of the KJV had, "Or hasten." This is proof that the translators of the KJV understood the Greek word to mean "hastening."

World-Wide English

12You should look for the day of God and do everything you can to make it come quickly.

(New American Standard Bible)

12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God

(New King James Version)

12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God

(English Standard Version)

12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God

New International Version

12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming

Darby Translation

12waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God

Peter 3:12 (Contemporary English Version)

12 You should look forward to the day when God judges everyone, and you should try to make it come soon.

The Concordant Literal renders 2 Peter 3: 13 as, "... and hurrying the presence of God's day..."

Rotherham's Emphasized has, "hastening the coming..." (Rotherham's is probably the single most dependable and accurate translation of the Critical Text.)

The Revised English Bible has, " and work to hasten it on..."

Also consider this:

In The Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament (Moulton and Milligan), p. 583, it gives numerous examples from the ancient papyri in which the same word means "hasten," and it gives this as the correct translation of it in 2 Peter 3: 12.

This primary source quotes some ancient texts, using the word speudo--

"I am anxious to make haste..." "for the help of the gods I am hastening to set out to you."

This important source does not give any examples outside of the NT where the word means anything but "haste" or "hastening."

[messenger]

Amen brother John! Good bible study on the subject!