Letter to the Editor

[Woody]

A few weeks ago ... I wrote a letter to the editor on the topic of the Sabbath.

The emphasis of the letter was that the 4th commandment is the truly forgotten commandment. Even those who claim to uphold the ten commandments ... still don't keep it in any way, shape or form.

I clearly indicated that the 4th commandment required us to worship on and keep holy the 7th day. But I also said that even if one has to alter the day ... the least they could do would be to keep that day holy as required by the 4th commandment.

This got the churches in the area a little stirred up. There were letters that refuted mine. But, most important ... it seemed to awake the community on the issue.

The biggest Evangelical Protestant Church in the area just had a sermon on the need to do just what I was suggesting. Granted ... the pastor indicated that it didn't matter what day they chose. But in his sermon he indicated that they DID need to keep that day holy.

I was rather surprised.

The way I found out about this was because our neighbors shared it with us. We made friends with these neighbors after moving into this house this summer. They have attended church with us and many other different church functions. The Mrs. helps out in our Soup Kitchen with her children.

Well ... I am not certain she is going to continue with that for sure. You see ... one of our good conservative members told her that she was a 'heathen'(and much more) for not worshipping on Sabbath. (She goes to that large Evangelical Protestant church.)

Being a conservative ... you may wonder why I have such a distain for conservatism. Well ... I get reasons for this all the time. I could go on and on but had best stop.

But if any of you want to witness your faith to your community ... I would suggest you write a letter to the editor.

[ChildofChrist]

The local newspaper has two weekly issues and in the personal ads, someone someone runs an ad about the 7th day Sabbath over the last 4 months.

There are four SDA churches and one 7th Day Baptists in this immediate area.

As dgrimms suggested, planting the seeds are important. We never know when they will germinate and begin to sprout.

Redwood, I wish I had a small portion of your courage not to mention boldness.

[Woody]

Thanks ChildofChrist ...

This letter that I wrote ... already has had results. I was able to attend church last Sabbath for the first time in a good while. And I met a nice lady that was present for the first time ... just because of my letter. I was not able to find out much about her except that she is not an Adventist. But I hope to learn more later.

[aldona]

Quote:

Well ... I am not certain she is going to continue with that for sure. You see ... one of our good conservative members told her that she was a 'heathen'(and much more) for not worshipping on Sabbath.

What is the point of using the best outreach methods in the world, communicating with the greatest number of people, presenting our faith in the best possible light, and attracting crowds of visitors, if this is the kind of thing that is going to happen once they walk through our doors?

They would probably get better fellowship, more friendship and acceptance at their local bar with their beer-drinking buddies.

aldona

[Nan]

And the saddest thing is that the church member concerned probably honestly believed s/he was doing the

work of God.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Being a conservative ... you may wonder why I have such a distain for conservatism. Well ... I get reasons for this all the time.

The best way for a conservative to be is conservative about our own choices, but liberal toward everyone else's. That's the position I take.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Being a conservative ... you may wonder why I have such a distain for conservatism. Well ... I get reasons for this all the time.

The best way for a conservative to be is conservative about our own choices, but liberal toward everyone else's. That's the position I take.

Excellent

[Woody]

Quote:

Well ... I am not certain she is going to continue with that for sure. You see ... one of our good conservative members told her that she was a 'heathen'(and much more) for not worshipping on Sabbath.

What is the point of using the best outreach methods in the world, communicating with the greatest number of people, presenting our faith in the best possible light, and attracting crowds of visitors, if this is the kind of thing that is going to happen once they walk through our doors?

They would probably get better fellowship, more friendship and acceptance at their local bar with their beer-drinking buddies.

aldona

You bring up a valid point Aldona. Perhaps you can help advise on what to do in this situation. The person involved ... is a church member ... but she is also one of those that needs to come to the soup kitchen for her own personal need of food. How can the church deny food to someone in need just because she is a loud conservative SDA ?

[LynnDel]

Have a showing of the Winsome Witnessing DVD in your church. Make sure your finger-pointing "witnesses" attend. It should also be in your church library and be required viewing for all church leaders. It addresses just that issue.

LD

[Woody]

Thanks. However ... I think with this person that the adage ... "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" applies. But ... I will mention that DVD to my pastor. Others just might benefit.

The pastor did speak with this neighbor and assured her that this church does not teach or believe what this person was expressing. And we just hope that she would 'consider the source' if she could.

This woman that goes around condemning others ... has been talked to by the pastor in a kind gentle way. But like I say ... you can't teach an old dog new tricks especially a conservative old dog that thinks it is going about doing God's work.

[Neil D]

This woman that goes around condemning others ... has been talked to by the pastor in a kind gentle way. But like I say ... you can't teach an old dog new tricks especially a conservative old dog that thinks it is going about doing God's work.

According to the Dog Whisperer, sure you can teach an ol' dog new tricks. He says that you need to become a lead dog and get her attention. That's what lead dogs do...

Personally, I think you need a large 2x4 and hit her between the eyes....That should pretty much get her attention.... Gossiping about the church in the mannor that you have stated is subject for discipline....at least, that was my impression when I perused the church manuel... just a thought...

[guibox]

Quite a few years ago I wrote to a provincial magazine many times about certain religious topics like the state of the dead and what not and they printed them...it was pretty cool.

I wrote into the local newspaper once about the state of the dead in response to an article that was written by a local reverend.

Boy did I get h-e-double-hockey-sticks from one guy! He called me all nice and whatnot, then when I identified myself as the guy responsible for the letter to the editor, he pretty much tore a strip off me and then hung up without even allowing me to give a response!

[guibox]

And the saddest thing is that the church member concerned probably honestly believed s/he was doing the

work of God.

[Gail]

I'm thankful that your neighbour has more connection with the church than just that one member. But catch-up work is so much harder than an all-round positive experience the first time!

I wish you well, AND your pastor, Redwood!

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

This woman that goes around condemning others ... has been talked to by the pastor in a kind gentle way. But like I say ... you can't teach an old dog new tricks especially a conservative old dog that thinks it is going about doing God's work.

According to the Dog Whisperer, sure you can teach an ol' dog new tricks. He says that you need to become a lead dog and get her attention. That's what lead dogs do...

Personally, I think you need a large 2x4 and hit her between the eyes....That should pretty much get her attention.... Gossiping about the church in the mannor that you have stated is subject for discipline....at least, that was my impression when I perused the church manuel... just a thought...

Yes. You are correct. Putting the church in a bad light by misrepresenting it ... IS cause for disfellowship. And in this case ... it challenges my personal belief that disfellowshipping is wrong. But, at this point ... I don't think disfellowshipping is in the cards. Well ... it could be since many in the church are pretty fed up. But I don't see it happening.

If it was up to me ... I would take your 2 X 4 suggestion. Then perhaps we could inflict a little amnesia.

[Woody]

Have a showing of the Winsome Witnessing DVD in your church. Make sure your finger-pointing "witnesses" attend. It should also be in your church library and be required viewing for all church leaders. It addresses just that issue.

LD

Thanks LynDel. I found the web site and showed it to my pastor.

[Neil D]

public censure is also an option...it doesn't disfellowship but it does place a cloud over any transfer of membership, and it does allow for that "2x4" impression to take place....

Just make sure that you spell out what it will take to remove the censure....ie 3 months of no complaints from the members to the pastor or elders of the church....

[Woody]

Sounds reasonable Neil. But I just can't support censure because where would one stop. We all need censure for we all sin and error. And WHO am I to judge.

I prefer to just find her in a dark alley and apply the board of education (2 X 4)

[Taylor]

Thanks ChildofChrist ...

This letter that I wrote ... already has had results. I was able to attend church last Sabbath for the first time in a good while. And I met a nice lady that was present for the first time ... just because of my letter. I was not able to find out much about her except that she is not an Adventist. But I hope to learn more later.

Awesome! I would love to read what you wrote!

[Taylor]

Thanks. However ... I think with this person that the adage ... "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" applies. But ... I will mention that DVD to my pastor. Others just might benefit.

The pastor did speak with this neighbor and assured her that this church does not teach or believe what this person was expressing. And we just hope that she would 'consider the source' if she could.

This woman that goes around condemning others ... has been talked to by the pastor in a kind gentle way. But like I say ... you can't teach an old dog new tricks especially a conservative old dog that thinks it is going about doing God's work.

Have your pastor check out the book by John Maxwell called "Winning with People". Great book that could be used to pull a seminar from...that would address many interpersonal relationships. Church members need to be educated in this manner, in my opinion. I am sure your pastor wishes they could use duct tape at times, to "hush" particular church members! :)

[Woody]

Thanks Taylor. Yes, duct tape or that 2 X 4 ... either one.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:Redwood

This woman that goes around condemning others ...

but she is also one of those that needs to come to the soup kitchen for her own personal need of food.

Ahhh, Redwood, and we were doing so well...!

Quote:

Quote:Redwood

Yes, duct tape or that 2 X 4 ... either one.

Tskity, tskity, tsk... So, is this thing called agape a thing of the heart, a thing of the intellect, or a thing of the bowels? mebbe it best manifests as agida, yes?

Invite the biddy home and demonstrate – by example.

[Woody]

Quote:

Invite the biddy home and demonstrate – by example.

Done that. But then she just went off on the food issue and how our food was not healthy enough for her to eat.

Like you say though ... all we could do was to demonstrate love.

[guibox]

Speaking of letters to the editor, here is a lu-lu that just came in the Canadian Messenger.

We wonder why people think we are a cult....This is laughable and sad all at the same time. I've highlighted specific instances of incredulity.

Quote:

I received a copy of the September 2008 Messenger (** entitled 'What your kids could have done on their summer vacation) and left it unread on my coffee table. A friend came over, picked it up and said, "See, you're no different than thesecular world; you use the same language we do." I asked them what they meant, and they pointed to the word 'kids' on the cover.

I was surprised to see the word 'kids' used not only on the cover but throughout the magazine. This may seem like a trivial matter, but it can, I believe, also denote some of the problems we have with today's youth.

My question is: why do we have to use these words to describe our children? For one, it does not differentiate between boys and girls and is, more or less, putting everyone into the same category. As a result, gay and lesbian lifestyle is unfortunately being presented as a normal way of life, and, if we are not careful, our words will subtly portray us as condoning this lifestyle. I believe children are becoming more and more confused regarding their sexuality. , and can understand why. What is so wrong with calling them 'children'? It is used extensively throughout the Bible, and, to me, denotes the sanctity and respect we should be giving to both genders.

I believe the Bible always should be our guide in expressing our thoughts or ideas. As you know, throughout the book of Genesis, God called us 'man' and 'woman', 'son' and 'daugher', 'child', and 'children', etc. If God used these words to describe His creation, why would we find it necessary to do otherwise? I would think that the Adventist Church would be in the forefront in making doubly sure we avoid using worldly or popular words or phrases and, in so doing,m uphold the sanctity and respect God gae to each of His creations.

Can someone explain to me how 'children' distinguishes between 'boy' and 'girl' and 'kids' does not? The Bible also uses 'thee and thou' to talk to each other. Should we do the same thing?

I guess that sexual molestation,same sex marriage nurturing and genetics are not the culprits for homosexual orientation! It's calling children 'kids'! Who knew?

I highly doubt that a secular friend pointed this out. This seems to be a made up preamble to make others think that there are others that believe such flakiness. No non-religous person is that shallow.

Somewhere a village is missing their idiot.

Unbelievable.

[phkrause]

I'm not sure that calling people idiot's is helping anything. But I do agree that saying kids or children shouldn't or doesn't make a difference. It seems to me that they were willing to put themselves out there for people to critisize, or maybe even have people think about what they fill is important. So even if we disagree at least we can admire them for even writing what they seem to think is of importance.

pk