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Posted

The author in Hebrews 9 was not talking about the end of year Day of Atonement service. He was conveying a message to the newly converted Jewish Christians to focus on Christ's heavenly ministry rather than the done-away ceremonies and types.

Furthermore, Hebrews 9 vindicates Christ as our high priest by the blood of His merit, as opposed to blood of animals the human high priest presented to the LORD during inauguration.

During the inauguration of the high priest and the dedication of the sanctuary, the high priest dedicated every parts of the sanctuary with blood and oil. This is what Hebrews 9 refers to: the sanctuary.

This fulfilled the prediction made in Daniel 9:24 "to anoint the Most Holy" in the midst of the 70th week. The Most Holy (qodesh quodeshim) is used in the scriptures only to describe a place.

The Spirit of Prophecy confirms that Christ upon His ascension, entered into the Most Holy Place to dedicate the temple in heaven and to be inaugurated as our High Priest: :

"Christ's ascension to heaven was the signal that His followers were to receive the promised blessing. For this they were to wait before they entered upon their work. When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as the ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity. The Pentecostal outpouring was Heaven's communication that the Redeemer's inauguration was accomplished. According to His promise, He had sent the Holy Spirit from heaven to His followers, as a token that He had, as priest and king, received all authority in heaven and on earth, and was the Anointed One over His people" (AA 38-39).

"Still bearing humanity, He ascended to heaven, triumphant and victorious. He has taken the blood of the atonement into the holiest of all, sprinkled it upon the mercy-seat and His own garments, and blessed the people. Soon He will appear the second time to declare that there is no more sacrifice for sin." ---The Signs of the Times, April 19 1905.

Hebrews 9 establishes Christ's inauguration. It in no way contradicts our 1844 message. Just as daily service proceeded in the Holy Place after the inauguration service in the OT, Christ began His Holy Place ministry as our mediator until 1844. Since then He has begun the judgment phrase of salvation and acts as both of our mediator and judge in the Most Holy Place before the mercy seat.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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Posted

It's well known that Hebrews 9: 12, correctly translated, reads, "and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption" (New American Standard Bible).

The NIV mistranslates ta hagia in Heb. 9: 12. Unfortunately, the NIV translates it as if the Greek there were hagia hagion, but it is not.

Compare Robert Young's Literal Translation--

"neither through blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, did enter in once into the holy places, age-during redemption having obtained."

Hebrews 9: 3 shows that the Geek for "Most Holy Place" is hagia hagion. In Hebrews 9: 12, the Greek is ta hagia, literally, "the holies." The NRSV translates it, "the Holy Place," and the Revised English Bible reads, "the sanctuary."

ta hagia in Hebrews 9: 3 refers to the entire sanctuary and is not specifying that Jesus went into one particular part of it. The idea being taught here is that Jesus went directly into the very presence of God. Hebrews is not dealing with the subject of the cleansing of the sanctuary. Its purpose is to prove the superiority of Christ's ministry over the Mosaic system.

Christ offered himself as a perfect sacrifice, which does not need to be offered again. To that extent, Christ's atonement was perfect and complete, but the atonement is more than the shedding of blood. The blood of the sacrifice must be applied inside the sanctuary, which is where Christ went upon His ascension to heaven. He went to plead His blood on our behalf before the Heavenly Father.

From the Most Holy Place, Christ our High Priest sends us power to resist and overcome sin. Therefore, the atonement has two essential aspects: the sacrifice and the application of the blood. Christ pleads His blood today, right now. There is power in the blood. "So let us continue coming with courage to the throne of God's unmerited favor to obtain His mercy and to find His spiritual strength to help us when we need it" (Hebrews 4:16). He provides us with power and strength so that we are enabled to resist and overcome every temptation to commit sin.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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Posted

HEY JOHN317

YES CHRIST is in the MOST HOLY PLACE in the

heavenly sanctuary... he will be their until

HE comes to take HIS followers home

Amen, friend, amen! Let's pray it's sooner than later. He could have come, and was on the point of coming, over 100 years ago. Some generation will be the last. Why not ours? I think it depends on how much we want Him to come and whether we really mean it. Is it the most important thing in our lives? Are we willing to give up anything and everything to seek His reign and His righteousness?

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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Posted

Does everyone agree with the following statements? Did Christ go immediately in the Most Holy Place after His ascension? Or did that occur in 1844?

Quote:
The Spirit of Prophecy confirms that Christ upon His ascension, entered into the Most Holy Place to dedicate the temple in heaven and to be inaugurated as our High Priest: :

"Christ's ascension to heaven was the signal that His followers were to receive the promised blessing. For this they were to wait before they entered upon their work. When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as the ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity. The Pentecostal outpouring was Heaven's communication that the Redeemer's inauguration was accomplished. According to His promise, He had sent the Holy Spirit from heaven to His followers, as a token that He had, as priest and king, received all authority in heaven and on earth, and was the Anointed One over His people" (AA 38-39).

"Still bearing humanity, He ascended to heaven, triumphant and victorious. He has taken the blood of the atonement into the holiest of all, sprinkled it upon the mercy-seat and His own garments, and blessed the people. Soon He will appear the second time to declare that there is no more sacrifice for sin." ---The Signs of the Times, April 19 1905.

Hebrews 9 establishes Christ's inauguration. It in no way contradicts our 1844 message. Just as daily service proceeded in the Holy Place after the inauguration service in the OT, Christ began His Holy Place ministry as our mediator until 1844. Since then He has begun the judgment phrase of salvation and acts as both of our mediator and judge in the Most Holy Place before the mercy seat.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Posted

If you remove the last paragraph....mel

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Posted

I assume you mean you don't agree with the last paragraph. What's wrong with it and why?

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Posted

When the curtain that hid the most holy place was torn it showed what? The answer is in Hebrews. Jesus' atonement erased the heed for the first compartment sacrifices and His own blood paid the price and restored the direct communication with Deity. There are no "first apartment" services needed since the cross. You know that.....mel

Posted

Quote:
There are no "first apartment" services needed since the cross.

Sorry, Mel. You have a misunderstanding here. When Jesus came to earth He was fulfilling the courtyard service -- that was where the lamb was sacrificed. The earth was where Jesus was sacrificed. The courtyard, outside the temple (representing heaven) was where the lamb's blood was shed.

He then returned to heaven, and began the second phase of His ministry -- that of the forgiving of sins. That was what the earthly service symbolised -- the lamb gave his life in the courtyard,(the earth) and the blood of the lamb was taken into the first apartment, and symbolically the blood of the sacrifice was placed on the golden altar to symbolise that Jesus' life had been shed in my place.

Then, ONCE A YEAR, was the special DAY OF ATONEMENT, which symbolised the final judgement. On that day the blood of the sacrifice was taken INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE,and sprinkled on the ark, the Judgement seat over the 10 commandments that were in the ark. On that day, anyone who had not confessed all their sins was cast out of the camp. In 1844, as foretold, Jesus entered the Most Holy Place. This was the time of judgment.

We are still covered by His blood, and forgiveness is still freely available, but judgement has begun with those who, over the centuries had died, and will conclude with those who are still alive. When every living person on earth has decided for or against Christ, THEN HE WILL COME! The closing days of earth's history will see events that will shake people, both in and out of the churches. Every person alive on earth will be given their last chance. The message of salvation will be given with the clarity and power of the Holy Spirit, and there will be no excuse. THEN Jesus will come, and all will be treated according to their decision.

Those who have accepted the sacrifice of Jesus will joyfully receive the Lord. Those who chose not to accept Him will be struck down with the brightness of His coming, and will sleep until the end of the 1000 years when they will be awakened to receive their final punishment.

Jesus would want EVERYBODY to accept Him -- and they would be welcomed into heaven. It remains THEIR choice.

I hope that makes it clearer for you.

God bless,

Beryl

"Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves."

 

But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2 Cor. 12:9.

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Posted

Excellent, Beryl. I can tell you have been studying! You've shown it to be the exciting, wonderful message it is.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Posted

Well if that floats your boat! But seriously that whole scenario is full of holes. I grew up on that story way back in the 20s. Now when do you expect your name will make it to the top of the list? Sorry Beryl but no, Jesus made the atonement for me on the cross. That day was the climax of history! That was the antitypical day of atonement. That day the curtain was destroyed. The daily sacrifice was eliminated. The way into the most holy was thrown open to all of us mortals. There was no daily sacrifice for 1844 years after the cross. That is obvious. Praise His name.....mel

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Posted

Beryl that's as clear as I have ever heard it. Thanks for such a God inspired post. Sometimes you read some post and you have to wonder what was really said. But your posts are always right to the point and very clear and simple. (and I don't mean simple in a bad way because I enjoy simple)

pk

phkrause

When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
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Posted

Jesus made the atonement for me on the cross. That day was the climax of history! That was the antitypical day of atonement. That day the curtain was destroyed.

Yes I agree that Jesus' sacrifice was an atonement and that it was complete and full. But there is more to the atonement than Christ's death. What Jesus is doing today in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest is also a work of atonement. There is the atonement on the cross and the atonement in the Most Holy Place in heaven.

The atonement won't be totally finished until there is no more sin and everything is brought back to complete harmony with God. Christ's work as our High Priest is just as important as His death on the cross. In the earthly sanctuary service, one could not say the atonement had been made and completed as soon as the animal had been slain. The blood needed to be taken into the sanctuary and the sins of the people needed not only to be covered but also to be blotted out.

Jesus is in the business not only of forgiving and covering sins but of blotting them out. That signifies the bringing to an end of the process of covering sins. God doesn't intend to keep the process up indefinitely, but He means to have a sinless, clean universe.

The death of Christ divided history in half. It was the most important event in the history of the world up to this time. But the true climax of history will come when Jesus Christ returns and brings the rule of sin to a close.

Quote:
The daily sacrifice was eliminated. The way into the most holy was thrown open to all of us mortals. There was no daily sacrifice for 1844 years after the cross. That is obvious.

The daily sacrifice was eliminated because all the sacrifices had foreshadowed the sacrifice of Christ. When Christ died, all people were given direct access to the Father through our High Priest, Jesus Christ. And you are absolutely correct that there was no daily sacrifice after the cross. Christ is the only sacrifice necessary.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Posted

Thank you John for your affirming words. And yet you claim more than 1800 years of "first apartment" ceremony after the cross. The book of Hebrews lays it out plainly if one can just forget all the preconceived ideas. Read chapters seven to ten carefully. One must do great injustice to scripture in order to try to prove 1844 from Hebrews. Of course Jesus is ministering in Heaven for us and has been since his atoning sacrifice. That is not questioned by anyone I think, certainly not by me. .....mel

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Posted

Jesus made the atonement for me on the cross. That day was the climax of history! That was the antitypical day of atonement. That day the curtain was destroyed. The daily sacrifice was eliminated. The way into the most holy was thrown open to all of us mortals.

Let me know if the following paragraphs make any sense to you, and if you have a problem with any of it.

It's from the chapter on the "Life, Death and Resurrection of Christ" in the book, Seventh-day Adventists Believe. http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/index.htm

Quote:
The process of reconciliation has been associated with the term atonement. "The English word 'atonement' originally meant 'at-one-ment, ' that is, a state of being 'at one, ' or in agreement. Accordingly 'atonement' denoted harmony of a relationship, and when there had been estrangement this harmony would be the result of a process of reconciliation. Understood in terms of its original meaning, 'atonement' properly denotes a state of reconciliation that terminated a state of estrangement."2

Many Christians limit the term atonement exclusively to the redeeming effects of Christ's incarnation, suffering, and death. In the sanctuary services, however, atonement not only involved the killing of the sacrificial lamb but also included the priestly ministering of its shed blood in the sanctuary itself (cf. Lev. 4:20, 26, 35; 16:15-18, 32, 33). According to this Biblical usage, then, atonement can refer to both Christ's death and His intercessory ministry in the heavenly sanctuary. There, as High Priest, He applies the benefits of His complete and perfect atoning sacrifice to achieve the reconciliation of humans to God.3

Vincent Taylor also observed that the doctrine of atonement has two aspects "(a) the saving deed of Christ, and (B) the appropriation of His work by faith, both individual and communal. These two together constitute the Atonement." From this insight he concluded that "atonement is both accomplished for us and wrought in us."4

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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Posted

.... you claim more than 1800 years of "first apartment" ceremony after the cross. The book of Hebrews lays it out plainly if one can just forget all the preconceived ideas. Read chapters seven to ten carefully. One must do great injustice to scripture in order to try to prove 1844 from Hebrews. Of course Jesus is ministering in Heaven for us and has been since his atoning sacrifice.

Seventh-day Adventists, so far as I know, have never tried to prove 1844 from the book of Hebrews. They have always recognized that the book of Hebrews does not deal with the Investigative Judgment, which takes place just before Christ returns. That is not the purpose of Hebrews. It was written in order to show that Jesus' High Priestly ministry is superior to that of the Levites, and that Jesus is superior to Moses-- all this in order to prevent the Hebrew Christians from falling back into Judaism and away from Christ.

So the real question is whether the book of Hebrews contains anything that is opposed to the Adventist view of the Investigative, or Pre-Advent, Judgment.

What Hebrews does is show that there is a real sanctuary in heaven where Christ ministers as our High Priest. It also speaks of the necessity of a cleansing of the sanctuary (Hebrews 9: 22, 23). Christ has been officiating as our High Priest ever since He returned to heaven. These are the important things that we learn from the book of Hebrews.

The Adventist teaching regarding 1844 requires the study of a number of other books, especially Leviticus, Daniel and Revelation. If all we had was Hebrews, we wouldn't believe as we do about the Investigative Judgment. What Hebrews does is provide us with evidence of the reality of the heavenly sanctuary and of the mediation of Christ. Given the theme and purpose of that book, it shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone that it doesn't address the topic of the Investigative Judgment.

If it's OK with you, let's look carefully at chapters 7 to 10 of Hebrews with a view to finding if they contain anything that opposes the Seventh-day Adventist understanding of the Investigative Judgment. What do you see as the primary objection(s) raised by those chapters?

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Posted

The book of Hebrews does not address an "Investigative judgement" as you say. But the teaching of an 1800 year "first apartment" service is not there at all. That would require many sacrifices as is stated and denied by the author of Hebrews. Read chapter 9 verses 23 to 28. In the last Sabbath School series on Hebrews the authors of the 'quarterly' admitted that the book cannot be used to prove the 1844 date. Jesus the High Priest did not perform first apartment services for 1800 years. Not according to the author of Hebrews.....mel

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Posted

The book of Hebrews does not address an "Investigative judgement" as you say. But the teaching of an 1800 year "first apartment" service is not there at all. That would require many sacrifices as is stated and denied by the author of Hebrews.

Could you explain why the "first apartment" ministry of Christ would require many sacrifices?

As I understand it, and as SDAs have always understood it, the first apartment ministry of Christ is based on his completed sacrifice on the cross. No more sacrifices are needed.

Please look at the following paragraphs that explain the first apartment service. It's taken from the book, Seventh-day Adventists Believe.

http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/27/index.htm

Quote:
The ministry in the holy place. The priestly ministry in the holy place of the sanctuary could be characterized as a ministry of intercession, forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration. A continual ministry, it provided constant access to God through the priest. It symbolized the truth that the repentant sinner has immediate and constant access to God through Christ's priestly ministry as intercessor and mediator (Eph. 2:18; Heb. 4:14-16; 7:25; 9:24; 10:19-22).

When the penitent sinner came to the sanctuary with a sacrifice, he laid his hands on the head of the innocent animal and confessed his sins. This act symbolically transferred his sin and its penalty to the victim. As a result, he obtained forgiveness of sins. As The Jewish Encyclopedia states: "The laying of hands upon the victim's head is an ordinary rite by which the substitution and transfer of sins are effected." "In every sacrifice there is the idea of substitution; the victim takes the place of the human sinner."

The blood of the sin offering was applied in one of two ways: a. If it was taken into the holy place, it was sprinkled before the inner veil and placed on the horns of the altar of incense (Lev. 4:6, 7, 17, 18). b. If it was not taken into the sanctuary, it was placed on the horns of the altar of burnt offering in the court (Lev. 4:25, 30). In that case the priest ate part of the flesh of the sacrifice (Lev. 6:25, 26, 30). In either case, the participants understood that their sins and accountability were transferred to the sanctuary and its priesthood.

"In this ritual parable the sanctuary assumed the penitent's guilt and accountability—for the time being at least—when the penitent offered a sin offering, confessing his errors. He went away forgiven, assured of God's acceptance. So in the antitypical experience, when a sinner is drawn in penitence by the Holy Spirit to accept Christ as his Saviour and Lord, Christ assumes his sins and accountability. He is freely forgiven. Christ is the believer's Surety as well as his Substitute."

In type and antitype the holy place ministry primarily centers on the individual. Christ's priestly ministry provides for the sinner's forgiveness and reconciliation to God (Heb. 7:25). "For Christ's sake God forgives the repentant sinner, imputes to him the righteous character and obedience of His Son, pardons his sins, and records his name in the book of life as one of His children (Eph. 4:32; 1 John 1:9; 2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 3:24; Luke 10:20). And as the believer abides in Christ, spiritual grace is mediated to him by our Lord through the Holy Spirit so that he matures spiritually and develops the virtues and graces that reflect the divine character (2 Peter 3:18; Gal. 5:22, 23)."16

The ministry in the holy place brings about the believer's justification and sanctification.

Is there anything in these paragraphs that is different from what you have understood SDAs to believe and teach?

What is here that you believe is contradicted by the book of Hebrews?

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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Posted

... Read chapter 9 verses 23 to 28. In the last Sabbath School series on Hebrews the authors of the 'quarterly' admitted that the book cannot be used to prove the 1844 date.

Did you at one time believe that those verses, or other verses in Hebrews, proved the 1844 date?

Hebrews 9: 23-28 makes some important points, none of which oppose the Investigative Judgment--

1) The original things in the heavenly sanctuary have to be purified or cleansed "with better sacrifices," i.e, Jesus' sacrifice.

2) Christ entered the heavenly sanctuary to appear in the very presence of God for us.

3) Jesus does not need to offer himself many times as a sacrifice but Christ appeared once at the end of the age to put away sin by His sacrifice.

4) Christ was offered once for all to take away the sins of many.

5) Men die only once and after that are judged.

6) Next time He appears, it will be, not to deal with sin, but to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him to bring them final salvation.

Which of these do you believe mitigates against the Adventist understanding of the investigative Judgment?

Quote:
Jesus the High Priest did not perform first apartment services for 1800 years. Not according to the author of Hebrews.

Where do you believe you have good evidence from Hebrews that Jesus did not perform the first apartment service from His ascension until 1844?

I don't see it there.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Posted

I'm sorry that you dont see it my friend

....mel

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Posted

Notice that all phases of Christ's work in the heavenly sanctuary are based on the death of Christ on the cross. No additional sacrifice is needed. His one sacrifice is sufficient for all sin and for all time, never to be repeated.

The Ministry in the Most Holy: The Day of Atonement and the Cleansing of the Sanctuary

Quote:
The Final Judgment. The events on the Day of Atonement illustrate the three phases of God's final judgment. They are (1) the "premillennial judgment" (or "the investigative judgment") which is also called the "pre-Advent judgment"; (2) the "millennial judgment"; and (3) the "executive judgment" which takes place at the end of the millennium.

1. The ministry in the Most Holy Place. The second division of the priestly ministry is primarily sanctuary-centered, revolving around the cleansing of the sanctuary and of God's people. This form of ministry, which focused on the Most Holy Place of the sanctuary and which only the high priest could perform, was limited to one day of the religious year.

The cleansing of the sanctuary required two goats—the Lord's goat and the scapegoat (Azazel in Hebrew). Sacrificing the Lord's goat, the high priest made atonement for "the Holy Place [actually the Most Holy Place in this chapter], the tabernacle of meeting [the holy place], and the altar [of the court]" (Lev. 16:20; cf. 16:16-18).

Taking the blood of the Lord's goat, which represented the blood of Christ, into the Most Holy Place, the high priest applied it directly, in the very presence of God, to the mercy seat—the cover of the ark containing the Ten Commandments—to satisfy the claims of God's holy law. His action symbolized the immeasurable price Christ had to pay for our sins, revealing how eager God is to reconcile His people to Himself (cf. 2 Cor. 5:19). Then he applied this blood to the altar of incense and to the altar of burnt offering which on every day of the year had been sprinkled with the blood representing confessed sins. The high priest thereby made an atonement for the sanctuary, as well as the people, and brought about cleansing of both (Lev. 16:16-20, 30-33).

Next, representing Christ as mediator, the high priest took upon himself the sins that had polluted the sanctuary and transferred them to the live goat, Azazel, which was then led away from the camp of God's people. This action removed the sins of the people that had been symbolically transferred from the repentant believers to the sanctuary through the blood or flesh of the sacrifices of the daily ministry of forgiveness. In this way the sanctuary was cleansed and prepared for another year's work of ministry (Lev. 16:16-20, 30-33).17 And thus all things were set right between God and His people.18

The Day of Atonement, then, illustrates the judgment process that deals with the eradication of sin. The atonement performed on this day "foreshadowed the final application of the merits of Christ to banish the presence of sin for all eternity and to accomplish the full reconciliation of the universe into one harmonious government under God."

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Posted

It was written in order to show that Jesus' High Priestly ministry is superior to that of the Levites, and that Jesus is superior to Moses-- all this in order to prevent the Hebrew Christians from falling back into Judaism and away from Christ.

The first part of your statement is correct, but the last part is not.

How could the Hebrew Christians be in danger of "falling back into Judaism" when the book of Acts and the historical records show that the Hebrew Christians had actually never left Judaism?

You can't fall back into something unless you get out of it first. The Hebrew Christians of the first century never left Judaism. Check your history. Hebrew Christians didn't leave Judaism until after the second Jewish revolt failed (around 135 AD) and the Romans persecuted Jews and barred them from Jerusalem. And even then many Hebrew Christians did not leave Judaism.

If the Hebrew Christians were outside of Judaism, why did Saul ask for letters from the High Priest authorizing him to take Christians prisoner in the synagogues of the foreign city of Damascus?(Acts 9) Later Paul was called a ringleader of the Nazarenes which was a sect within Judaism.(Acts 24) If the apostles had been outside of Judaism, the religious leaders of the Jews (the Sanhedrin) would have had no authority over them (the Romans were in charge). If the Hebrew Christians had been outside of Judaism, they would not have been allowed into the Temple where they went regularly.(throughout Acts) If the apostles had been outside of Judaism, they would have been required by the Romans to participate in Emperor worship (only those perceived to be Jews were exempt). If the Hebrew Christians were outside Judaism, why did Paul describe Ananias (the Hebrew Christian who commissioned Paul as an apostle) as "a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there [Damascus]"?

But the deeper question would be, why would Judaism be a danger to followers of Jesus? At Mt. Sinai Jesus himself had given Moses the instructions for how to worship God (we call it Judaism). Then as a human, Jesus himself had lived perfectly according to those Old Testament instructions (we call it Judaism). Is not Jesus, who lived within the precepts of Judaism, our supreme example? How could following the example of Jesus be a danger to those who claim to follow Jesus?

If you base your study of Hebrews on an assumption that is historically false (that Hebrews was written in order to prevent the Hebrew Christians from falling back into Judaism), isn't that going to lead to false interpretations of Hebrews?

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Posted

Originally Posted By: John317
It was written in order to show that Jesus' High Priestly ministry is superior to that of the Levites, and that Jesus is superior to Moses-- all this in order to prevent the Hebrew Christians from falling back into Judaism and away from Christ.

The first part of your statement is correct, but the last part is not.

........

If you base your study of Hebrews on an assumption that is historically false (that Hebrews was written in order to prevent the Hebrew Christians from falling back into Judaism), isn't that going to lead to false interpretations of Hebrews?

From the wikipedia, especially note the lines in red--

Quote:
Hebrews was written to a specific audience facing very specific circumstances.....

Some had stopped assembling together, and this was possibly due to persecution (10:25).[11]

As the author saw it, at least some among them were being tempted to avoid severe persecution by "shrinking back" (10:32–39) from the eschatalogical fulfillment of the true hope and faith of the Old Testament proclaimed by the apostolic witness to Jesus Christ. .... The author exhorted them to encourage "love and good works" (10:32–34) and warned them that if they "sin willfully" by denying Jesus' sacrifice it will become ineffective for them(26). But for non-Jews, these loving actions are sufficient for "great recompense of reward" (Heb. 10:35) as long as they "hold fast the profession of our faith [in Jesus] without wavering"(10:23), and thus do not need to convert to Judaism.

.... Traditional scholars have argued the letter's audience was Jewish Christians, as early as the end of the second century (hence its title, "The Epistle to the Hebrews"). However, Hebrews is part of an internal New Testament debate between the extreme Judaizers (who argued that non-Jews must convert to Judaism before they can receive the Holy Spirit of Jesus's Jewish covenant) versus the extreme lawless ones (who argued that Jews must reject God's commandments and that God's eternal Torah was no longer in effect). Peter and Paul represent the moderates of each faction, respectively. The Epistle emphasizes non-Jewish followers of Jesus do not need to convert to Judaism to share in all of God's promises to Jews.

Purpose for writing

Most scholars today believe the document was written to prevent apostasy. Some have interpreted apostasy to mean a number of different things, such as a group of Christians in one sect leaving for another more conservative sect, one in which the author disapproves. Some have seen apostasy as a move from the Christian assembly to pagan ritual. In light of a possibly Jewish-Christian audience, the apostasy in this sense may be in regard to Jewish-Christians leaving the Christian assembly to return to the synagogue. In light of Pauline doctrine, the epistle dissuades non-Jewish Christians from feeling a need to convert to Judaism. Therefore the author writes, "Let us hold fast to our confession" (4:14).

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Posted

Yes, and what part of that supports your statement? The Christian assembly was still within Judaism.

There isn't anything in the book of Hebrews that would come anywhere close to dissuading a devout Hebrew Christian from attending a synagogue (as Paul and Jesus regularly did).

Since when is truth determined by "Most scholars today". I'd be surprised if Wikipedia didn't label that as "weasel words".

Posted

From the wikipedia, especially note the lines in red--

Quote:
Hebrews was written to a specific audience facing very specific circumstances.....

Some had stopped assembling together, and this was possibly due to persecution (10:25).

In Hebrews 10:25 where the author tells believers to not forsake meeting together, the Greek word is episynagogen. If the author was at all concerned about believers attending the Jewish synagogues, don't you think he might have said something different than "do not forsake synagoging"? Or at least he might have added a word of clarification as to what type of synagoging was good and which was not good.

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Posted

Yes, and what part of that supports your statement?

Hebrews 6: 4-8; 10: 26-31; and 13: 14-19 are good verses to start with. These are clear warnings against apostasy.

The following is just some of the evidence that supports the truth of the statement made by the wikipedia--

Quote:
Purpose for writing

Most scholars today believe the document [Hebrews] was written to prevent apostasy.

Take a look at the Introduction to the book of Hebrews in the New Jerusalem Bible. Among other things, it says, "The letter was written to them to try to prevent this [reverting to Judaism] from happening."

Also see Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's Commentary on Hebrews 6: 4-6 and 10: 24-34.

Unger's Bible Dictionary (p. 465) says that one of the purposes of the writing of Hebrews was "to warn those who accepted Christ of the dangers of apostasy. In view of the antiquated nature of Judaism the writer also exhorts his readers to make a complete break with it (12: 18- 13: 17). To accomplish this purpose the writer in closely knit argument establishess the superiority of Christ over angels, over Moses and Joshua and over O.T. priesthood and ritual."

See the Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 7, Introduction To Hebrews, Historical Setting.

The Harper Study Bible, edited by Harold Lindsell, in the introduction to Hebrews, says, "The readers seem to have been Jewish Christians who were in danger of abandoning their faith and lapsing back into Judaism; thus they were running the risk of apostasy..."

The Concordia Self-Study Bible, in the Introduction to Hebrews, says, "The letter was addressed primarily to Jewish converts who were... being tempted to revert to Judaism or to Judaize the gospel."

The Nelson Study Bible, in the introduction to Hebrews, says, "The Book of Hebrews was written to address the doubts of those who were second-guessing their conversion to Christianity.... 'Do not go back on the steps you have taken.'"

The Oxford Annotated Bible, in the Introduction to Hebrews, says, "The recipients of the letter were on the point of giving up their Christian faith and returning to the Jewish beliefs and practices of their ancestors. To win them back to a firm adherence to Christianity the author emphasizes three main points....." etc.

In Encountering the New Testament, A Historical and Theological Survey (p. 349), it says, "If Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians, do we know why the author wrote it? It seems that he wrote to warn his readers not to turn back to Judaism and to encourage them to stay true to faith in Jesus Christ."

In the Life Application Bible (NIV), the introduction to Hebrews says, "To Whom Written: Hebrew Christians (perhaps second-generation Christians, see 2:3) who may have been considering a return to Judaism, perhaps because of immaturity, stemming from a lack of understanding of Biblical truths... "

Scoffield's Study Bible, in the introduction to Hebrews, says, "... the hortatory passages show that the writer had in view the danger ever present to Jewish professed believers of either lapsing back into Judaism, or of pausing short of true faith in Jesus Christ."

In the Confraternity Version of the Holy Bible, the Introduction to Hebrews says, "... [Hebrews] was destined for Jewish Christians of Palestine, who under the stress of trials were in danger of relapsing into Judaism."

In the Introduction to Hebrews in the Good News Bible, it says, "The Letter to the Hebrews was written to a group of Christians who, faced with increasing opposition, were in danger of abandoning the Christian faith."

In the Introduction to Hebrews in the Amplified Bible, it says, "Very likely this letter was addressed to Jewish Christians in Palestine or in Rome who were being tempted to revert to Judaism or to Judaize the Gospel." (Zondervan, 1987)

Please carefully study the following--

Quote:
Hebrews 10:19-39 (New International Version)

19 Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32 Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. 33 Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34 You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.

35 So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. 36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37 For in just a very little while,

"He who is coming will come and will not delay.

38 But my righteous one will live by faith.

And if he shrinks back,

I will not be pleased with him." 39 But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved.

John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

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