Let's Not Be Cowardly Any More--- Let's Talk Candidly About Race

[John317]

Quote:

WASHINGTON – Eric Holder, the nation's first black attorney general, said Wednesday the United States was "a nation of cowards" on matters of race, with most Americans avoiding candid discussions of racial issues. In a speech to Justice Department employees marking Black History Month, Holder said the workplace is largely integrated but Americans still self-segregate on the weekends and in their private lives.

"Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and I believe continue to be, in too many ways, essentially a nation of cowards," Holder said.

Race issues continue to be a topic of political discussion, but "we, as average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about race."

Holder's speech echoed President Barack Obama's landmark address last year on race relations during the hotly contested Democratic primaries, when the then-candidate urged the nation to break "a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years" and bemoaned the "chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races." Obama delivered the speech to try to distance himself from the angry rhetoric of his former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Holder cited that speech by Obama as part of the motivation for his words Wednesday, saying Americans need to overcome an ingrained inhibition against talking about race.

"If we're going to ever make progress, we're going to have to have the guts, we have to have the determination, to be honest with each other. It also means we have to be able to accept criticism where that is justified," Holder told reporters after the speech.

In the speech, Holder urged people of all races to use Black History Month as a chance for honest discussion of racial matters, including issues of health care, education and economic disparities.

1) Who is to decide when criticism is justified?

2) I personally do not have an ingrained inhibition against talking about race.

3) I agree with Holder that we need to talk about it more and be more honest about it.

4) But I do not believe that America is a nation of cowards because people may not want to talk about race as much as Holder wants people to.

5) Are people ready to hear and participate in honest, candid talk about racial matters? Do we have the "guts"?

[Guest truthseeker007]

I believe that in the time God confused the languages the people who spread around the world were much more capable of adaptation. They didn t suffer as much degeneration as we do today. So the people from Africa were lazy people lying in the sun whole days, the people in China often closed their eyes together because of the tremendous size of the region so they could see each other better, etc. etc.

We are all the same species, just in different varieties!

[John317]

Quote:

now as S.D.A. Christians we must look at people of

different races as just people.....

I agree there.

I'm against people coming into this country illegally and favor their being sent back. However see my comment below.

Quote:

I have worked

with and know where some of these MEXICAN people live....

I HAVE befriend them and have given their children many

little friends---primary treasures----and guides over a long

period of time....I HAVE even given some of these families

food....

I have relatives who are here illegally. One of my wife's nephews swam across by going out into the ocean and swimming up the coast about a mile. He was caught and jailed for a few days and then sent back to Mexico. He was going to LA as part of his work as a supervisor. He'd done it many times before. Now he is planning on moving with his wife (who's legal here) down into the interior of Mexico to get work. Their baby was born here so she's an American.

They would come up illegally on Sabbath and go to church with us sometimes. His mother is a Seventh-day Adventist living in Mexico.

One of my wife's nieces and her family moved illegally to the US because her little boy was dying of cancer, and the doctors in Mexico had done a bad job.

She's lived in Fresno now for over 10 years, and her little boy died because the hospital in Fresno made a mistake that had nothing to do with his cancer. It was terribly, terribly sad. She called me only a few minutes after he died in the hospital. They misdiagnosed his appendicitis, causing his appendix to rupture.

Now the mother and her husband (who works illegally as the head chef at a large hotel there) are planning on moving back to Mexico.

There are so many tragic stories connected to these people that come here. Most of them are only struggling to make a living for them and their families.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

quoting Obama

Quote:

"...bemoaned the "chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races."

Just what exactly is the "chasm of misunderstanding" that exists between the races? I would really like to know. And is it just in America that this "chasm" exists?

Cowardly? Maybe some people are afraid to approach the topic because they don't want trouble ...

IMHO, all people should be treated equally and have the same advantages (and punishments) that the law allows - although illegal aliens need to go back to where they came from, as stated above..

eeesh...I've said too much already.

[John317]

Just what exactly is the "chasm of misunderstanding" that exists between the races? I would really like to know. And is it just in America that this "chasm" exists?

Yes, this is something that exists everywhere. Lots of people don't realize it but it happens in places like Mexico, too, where there is racism practiced between the Spanish Mexicans and the Mexicans of Indian descent. My wife's father was Spanish and my wife's mother was Yaqi indian. The Father's side of the family hated the mother and never forgave him for marrying her. The Spanish are called criollos are considered higher class than the mixed blood Mexicans, who are called Mestizos. The ones who are half black and half Mexican are called "lobos" and are considered even lower.

The U.S. problem is somewhat different because race was a major factor in the people that were enslaved, but it was not always that way. Whites ["indentured servants"] were enslaved at first but it was hard to identify a run-away white slave since he looked like everyone else. So they tried to enslave indians but indians would just lay down and refuse to work or eat and they would die. Plantation owners found that blacks worked hard and they were strong; they almost never rebelled, and they were easy to identify if they ran away. But in the meantime, they were dehumanized in order to rationalize the fact that they were slaves and treated sometimes like animals. That part of the equation is still with us, and to an extent it still affects many blacks psychologically.

Quote:

Cowardly? Maybe some people are afraid to approach the topic because they don't want trouble ...

Yes, this is how many people feel, and you can't blame them if you know what some of them have been through.

[Liz]

Hmmmm, it seems to me that instead of focusing on "races" we should focus on culture. When we discuss our cultures and what we were raised with and how, then we can find a common ground that brings us all together with understanding and hopefully with respect and then friendship. When we focus on "race" it appears that one group of people tries over and over again to justify why they are bitter towards another group of people. When you walk away from that type of meeting you are still divided.

"Illegals" are not a race or a culture, it is breaking the law, thus the word illegal. No one should do it, if you want to move to another country do it legally. However, that is really between them and the authorities.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

When we focus on "race" it appears that one group of people tries over and over again to justify why they are bitter towards another group of people. When you walk away from that type of meeting you are still divided.

And that's what happens time after time after time after time.

Discussing culture is fine, but you need both parties to be amenable to that kind of discussion.

[Dr. Rich]

I believe that in the time God confused the languages the people who spread around the world were much more capable of adaptation. They didn t suffer as much degeneration as we do today. So the people from Africa were lazy people lying in the sun whole days, the people in China often closed their eyes together because of the tremendous size of the region so they could see each other better, etc. etc.

We are all the same species, just in different varieties!

Can someone tell me how Iron and Clay can be mixed together? (See Daniel)

[John317]

Hmmmm, it seems to me that instead of focusing on "races" we should focus on culture. When we discuss our cultures and what we were raised with and how, then we can find a common ground that brings us all together with understanding and hopefully with respect and then friendship.

I think it's good to talk mostly about culture and what we have in common, but the issue of race and prejudice must also be directly addressed, and yes, it will lead to disagreements and sometimes anger, but that is something that has to be faced and dealt with. It's what Holder was talking about. But I do agree that by talking about culture and how we were raised helps each side see the other much more as people like themselves and not simply as members of a race.

[olger]

I am pondering Holder's comments..

[Kountzer]

For the past year we have been leasing a house that is located in a small, modest housing compound. The area and the street that runs throuh it is shaped like a 'C" or better yet like a fish hook. Google recently put the compound and it's street on google maps. That's one of the few maps that shows the place. Other maps just show the street that runs outside the gated area. There are about 20 or so houses in the group. The compound is sequestered somewhat behind a wooden border fence, that has a gated entrance that requires a code to open. Nothing special. You see the same type of gates of many apartment complexes. The couple that takes care of the compound are mexican american. Most of the residences in the group are hispanic. There is one caucasian family, and 4 or 5 black familes. One family are black and hispanic, probably from central or south america.

On special occasions like new years, or some other occasion, the complex becomes like a fiesta. Lots of salsa and tejano music. Sometimes it is hip hop and rap.

having mentioned all that the family that lives to our left are mexican american. the family to my right is african american. we are cordial and speak and all that. But I don't interact much with either family, beyond speaking.

I don't know if this adds anything to the discussion, but there it is.

DB

[Joe_in_RP]

Whenever I hear people talk about racism I am suspicious. In my area there was a non white mayor that polarized a large population of this issue. He did it for political gain. But the cost was very great. He has been dead for a number of years and the town is still polarized.

What is a racist? I ask this because different cultures have different definitions.

[Joe_in_RP]

Hear is a video claiming these people are racist. Are they?

Racist is a very ambiguous term.

ambiguous

(Open to more than one interpretation: an ambiguous reply.)

.

.

.

.

. Its sure seems like a weapon to me.

[Key Guy]

I've got the guts! Let's do it!

As a white member (Deacon, Asst Treasurer) of a black church, I am thrilled to be in a mixed-race community (Key West) and church family. Are there weird tensions at time? Yes, of course. But, it's not so much racial as cultural... I'm a northerner from the hills of PA in a down-home southern town. I've had to learn a few points about how 'Conchs' (native Key Wester's) do things. Some make no sense, others are pretty logical!

My take, from a church family view, is that we are all going to live in joy together in heaven. Why not here? I am still flabbergasted that we have white and black conferences. Have you noticed that the conference racial borders are getting blurry, though? There are more blacks in white churches, more whites in black churches and not just warming pews. How long the GC will sit around and not meld our conferences together in North America, I do not know.

Our local church has Haitians, Jamaicans, Bahamians, Ukrainians, Russians, Brazilians, Puerto Ricans, Cubans, Argentinians, and tourists from around the world. I've had a great time expanding my circle of friends and our fellowship is a blessing.

On a secular note... why don't we have a Hispanic History Month? Why not an Oriental History Month? How about Jewish, Arab, Mongolian, Indian? We are taking this racial pride thing way too far. Most non-citizen folks living and working here that I know are spending gobs of time, money and tears to become Americans. I regret that we have lost much of the 'melting pot' mentality. I want to see more of it in our society and our church.

Bottom line, true followers of Christ are servants, placing the wants and needs of others above our own. That Christ-like characteristic automatically destroys the attitude of being owed for past mistakes or wanting something that we didn't earn or at the expense of someone else. You cannot have the mind of Christ and hold to racial bias.

Will this work as a springboard for discussion?

Les

[John317]

... It [the term racism] sure seems like a weapon to me.

Of course, and it is frequently meant to be by those who use it as a way of controlling others.

[John317]

What you say here is actually very encouraging because it shows that the gospel really does make a difference in people's relationship with other races.

My father was a pastor a few years ago of a church in the South (USA) which was about equally divided between whites and blacks, yet I never saw or heard of any evidence whatsoever of problems owing to race. The church building sat on the banks of the Tennessee River and was constructed of boulders carried out of that River by slaves before the Civil War. The nearby cemetery held the graves of Confederate soldiers killed in battles they fought close by in order to prevent the black members' ancestors from realizing their full humanity. There are still racial problems in the general community, but the members worship together on Sabbath and treat each other during the week as if they were all one race.

[Key Guy]

1) As long as there is sin, there will be racism. I define that as the attempt to make one's background or culture superior to another. That is displayed at times as wanting to force others by intimidation or guilt to show respect that isn't earned. Just as an example, I have seen racism in other (Hispanic) countries displayed against Hispanics of neighboring countries... attitudes of contempt heaped upon Mexicans by Cubans, heaped upon Puerto Ricans by Nicaraguans. It doesn't matter where you go on this earth, someone will always think they're better than someone else.

2) In the Christian world, Heaven will be unreachable until we mirror the attitude that Christ has, until we fully realize the message God gave to Peter in vision. If God wants everyone to be saved and paid such a great sacrificial price to make that salvation available, we have NO right to withhold that blessing from others because we think we're better than they are.

God help us... and soon. We have such an example to set for the world. If we cannot show unconditional and redemptive love and respect for all men and women of all races and cultures, we're gonna be here for a long time.

Les

[Stan]

Welcome home Les, we have missed you..

[Key Guy]

Thanks! I missed y'all, too.

[LifeHiscost]

[

Can someone tell me how Iron and Clay can be mixed together? (See Daniel)

It is done by Divine fiat, though not arbitrarily.

"...and it shall be, every one -- whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved."

Acts 2:21 YLT

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"

2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV

Blessings!

[LifeHiscost]

treat each other during the week as if they were all one race.

Seems like the natural thing to do for a born again (born from above) Christian except for the words "as if". The reality is we all are members of one race, the human race. The Christan goes further, thanks be to Jesus.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus."Galatians 3:27 NASB

Blessings!

[phkrause]

I second that stan. Good Sabbath Key Guy, good to see you. As far as racism, I never thought about it, growing up in NYC, as a little boy. When I got older I had many more Hispanic and African American friends. Grew up in a Jewish neighborhood in Manhattan when my family first move to the US. Than when we moved to the Bronx, we also lived in a Jewish neighborhood for a few years, than we moved to a very intergrated neighborhood. There I had many friends of many different races or cultures as I like to look at it. When we bought, or should I say my parents, our first house we also lived in a multicultural neighborhood. Where ever we have lived since as always been that way. As far as myself I never thought about that growing up. I never looked at people an asked my parents why is that person black etc. Of course as you grow up and hear people talk than you start to wonder, at least for me, what's the problem we are all created equal under God. Than you realize not all see it that way. I think this is sad. And especially when you see it more in some churches. And as far as people liking to hang with people they know, I see no problem with that. I can remember when little my father being Jewish and having been in concentration camps, didn't even want to go to a synagogue or temple let alone a church. But when my mom started taking bible studies she asked the bible worker about a jewish adventist church, and that's where we went. Not because we didn't want to be with other cultures but because maybe they could relate better to my father. It took awhile but he eventually joined. They had many jews there but they did have other cultures also. When the church moved to manhattan to start working for the jews we actually baptized more african americans and hispanics than jews. The jews we baptized eventually left. So we wound up having a very multicultural church.

pk

[Key Guy]

Racism and politic are both religons

a lot of people are very religious in there

racist and political views

enough said

What?! I didn't quite get that. Perhaps it's not enough said.

Les

[Bravus]

I'm not sure that talking about race here, in our overwhelmingly white community, is quite what Mr Holder had in mind...

[missionlady]

I found myself somewhat offended by the new AGs statement of this being a nation of cowards. If he would have said something to the effect that there are some cowards in our nation that would have been different. But "a nation of cowards" implies that most, if not all, of us are cowards in that regard. I find that offensive. I do not consider myself a coward.

I know that racism still exists in our country and that is not acceptable. But what many people seem to fail to realize is that racism goes more than one direction. I think some people define racism as "white people that don't treat black people well". What about black or any other color people that treat white or any other color of people badly? That can also be racism.

Dr. King had a dream--that a person be judged by his character and not by the color of his skin. So to vote for someone just because he IS black is not following Dr. King's dream. Senator McCain was dicriminated AGAINST because of the color of his skin.

"But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers." James 2:9

I am glad someone, earlier on this thread, pointed out that "illegals" are doing something illegal. I respect "illegals" as children of God, but they should follow the laws, as the Bible instructs them to do.

I also agree with a previous comment that it might be more appropriate to talk about "culture" that race.

On that subject: We are all of the same race--THE HUMAN RACE.