Kerry responds to your comments!!!

[BobRyan]

I recommend that you avoid the subject of Ellen White with Kerry since the only way to accept Ellen White is "via the Bible tests of a prophet" the first one being doctrinal correctness. If his doctrine is all loused up -- you can not start with "testing Ellen White by correct Doctrine".

That is just a "given".

The Sabbath is a great subject as "a starter" -- but might quickly require that you first define the relationship between law and gospel (which is probably another stumbling block for Kerry).

In any case - would be great to have him here to exchange views with.

Our prayers are with you.

in Christ,

Bob

[phkrause]

Because I believe that they know that the SDA church follows the Bible the closer than any other church.

pk

[SivartM]

Because I believe that they know that the SDA church follows the Bible the closer than any other church.

pk

Why would anyone be an outspoken opponent of something they really believed in?

[John317]

GreatLakesGramma, Very good and wise advice!!

[GreatLakesGramma]

Luke, I've been thinking about this ever since I posted before, and I think there is a bit more I should add.

My suggestion as to your answer when people want to argue with you about the Sabbath - you don't have to repeat the whole thing every time you answer within the same conversation. That could make the other person very annoyed, like they're talking to a robot. Just saying whichever part of it might be relevant to their most recent comment is good, just the last part - I have nothing more to say - probably being the best response most of the time.

But sticking with this answer will probably lead them to come at you from a different angle, which you also need to be prepared for. Such as "and just why are you so convicted that this is what the Bible means?"; "what makes you think you're smarter than all those theologians and preachers who say otherwise?", etc.

You need to be prepared to answer these questions also. As to why you believe any particular way, you need to give YOUR answer, not something someone else had told you to say. You certainly know why you've accepted the Sabbath. Keep your answer as short and simple as you can, and remember what Gail said about your conviction. The only argument anyone can make against that is the "what makes you think you are right and all these preachers....." (see above)

That may be one you haven't yet heard or thought about, but I'd suggest the best answer to that one is to point out that all those preachers and theologians don't even agree with each other, or there wouldn't be so many denominations teaching things that are in direct conflict with each other. So therefore, you prefer to trust the Holy Spirit to interpret the Bible to you, rather than depend on theologians' conflicting opinions of what it says.

May God be with you and give you His strength and wisdom.

[olger]

Who is this Kerry Wynn person? I wonder if...

oG

[Gail]

Yes- fill us in, please!

[guibox]

I agree with John317. I have studied the 1919 GC discussion on EGW. In my opinion it turns some of the conservative views of EGW on their head, but in no way was there a discussion on whether to expose EGW as a false prophet. AG Daniells, who chaired the meeting, fully believed in the inspiration of EGW. The issue was how to deal with the false view of inspiration and Ellenolatry that was taking hold of the church and causing needless lack of faith in the inspiration of EGW because the image wasn't being reconciled with the facts.

I suggest you read those minutes a little more closely, Kerry.

Graeme Bradford addresses all of this discussion in his timely book, 'More Than a Prophet'.

Kerry, your overzealous assumptions and inaccuracies don't give you much credibility or intellectual weight to your arguments.

[John317]

We agree, guixbox. There were definitely problems, mostly because of what I consider over-zealous people who thought they were doing Ellen White a favor by protecting her; but by doing this, they often made it sound as if God dictated her messages. This was the worst thing they could have done, because of course when people found out the truth, they lost confidence in Ellen White and in the whole Adventist message. It played right into Satan's hands. We should always only tell the full truth.

But it wasn't Ellen White's fault. She never tried to mislead people about her use of other writers, but after her death and even before it, there were others who did try to hide certain facts. But we don't need to hide anything. The truth-- if it is truth-- has nothing to hide and can undergo the deepest scrutiny. As Ellen White said, if it is not the truth, it is time we find it out.

[olger]

Oh no...

oG

[GreatLakesGramma]

You need to be prepared to answer these questions also.

I should have added that if you start to explain and they turn it into another argument, go back to the original response.

I hope I'm not creating confusion by adding to what I've already said.

[True-believer]

Luke, in our city there was once a debate in the newspapers about Sunday vs. Sabbath. The issue came up because there was to be a referendum on Sunday shopping.

Hello Gail, Could you please try and get a copy of that newspaper clip for me, I am very curious about the debate evolving sabbath v's sunday.

[True-believer]

Luke, I think you are making a big mistake in entering into discussion with this man. He is not only older and more educated than you are, he also has a lot more experience than you, both in being an Adventist, and in refuting Adventism. And he is not getting all these arguments only from his own mind. He has chosen another master than the One you have chosen, and you can be sure his master is inspiring him with a lot more than he could ever come up with on his own. You are in way over your head in debating with this man.

It is my mother that gave my email address to this guy Kerry and also a couple others.

[True-believer]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

You need to be prepared to answer these questions also.

I should have added that if you start to explain and they turn it into another argument, go back to the original response.

I hope I'm not creating confusion by adding to what I've already said.

Your not creating confusion!!!

Thankyou GreatLakesGramma for your words of wisdom.

Bless you.

[True-believer]

Thankyou all for your feedback

[John317]

We'll all be praying for you, Luke. Tell Kerry to keep an open mind and continue to study to see if what he believes lines up with Bible truth. We all need to constantly study and pray.

[True-believer]

I'd be *astonished* if no-one here has read 'From Sabbath to Sunday'.

I haven't read the book "From Sabbath to Sunday".

Where can I get it from?

[Neil D]

The ABC has the book. You might be able to order it thru Stan. Or the tried and true method, thru Amazon....I'd go thru the ABC ]Adventist Book Center].

Luke,

I know that I joined this discussion late, and that you are discussing our sabbath doctrine with an Ex Adventist. Just be real careful to examine our doctrines real carefully, and don't be pulled down to the same bitterness that the Ex has. He probably feels that he has been wronged in some way.

Prayers have been sent your direction

[GreatLakesGramma]

It is my mother that gave my email address to this guy Kerry and also a couple others.

Just because he emails you, even if it is at your mother's request, that doesn't mean you have to keep corresponding with him. It isn't rude to tell him you aren't going to discuss this with him. Though it would be rude of him if he kept bugging you once you told him so.

[GreatLakesGramma]

You need to understand one thing. This man does not care what you think. Nothing you say is ever going to make the slightest difference to him. He is only interested in getting you to reject the Sabbath. And so long as you let him, he will never let up until he has worn you down and gotten you to give up your convictions.