Woody Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 Tell Him to provide more money then ... So far He has not. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
SivartM Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Sorry, God isn't my pet. He can do what He wants. But I doubt that what he wants is for the church to either go broke or turn into ineffective mush. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 Perhaps I should make my next comments into a new thread. I don't know. But do you folks realize that the majority of SDAs DO NOT pay tithe? How can the church prosper if the flock does not support it? We are bound to turn into 'mush'. Mush Mush Mush It is not up to the pastor to force you to pay tithe. It is not the responsibility of the pastor to say the right words to convict you to pay tithe. YOU. Yes YOU ... need to pay attention to the voice of the Holy Spirit who is right now speaking to you and telling you to support your church. Okay ... if you need a pastor ... I will pretend to be your pastor. PAY YOUR TITHE. SUPPORT YOUR CHURCH. There now ... you have heard the message. No excuse. Get out your checkbooks NOW. Sorry. But this has touched a nerve. ( I am not usually like this ) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
SivartM Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Very good point, Redwood. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 Very good point, Redwood. Thank you. I was about to become embarrassed and head to bed. But since you were so kind to me ... maybe I will return ... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
carolaa Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Good point. But the Unions don't do that ... pastors do. And the congregations still want 'their' pastors. Yes, I'm well aware of what congregations *want.* What they want isn't always what they need. What many of them want is to sit around and let the pastor do all the work and then criticize him/her. You're right; training congregations and leaders is a slow process. The pastors need to find people willing to be trained as leaders and gradually train their congregations to work just fine on their own, for the most part. The conference needs to back up pastors who do this, and not move a pastor just because a congregation doesn't want to grow up. Because even though the training is slow in the beginning, it's like preparing soil because the growth afterward can be exponential. Quote
Woody Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 Yes. It is slow. My pastor is currently doing this. Some members are willing and being blessed. It can be surprising what one can accomplish when the Spirit is leading. But, Boy does it lift up the church to see the laity blossom through the leading of the Holy Spirit. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 In Michigan, they are not replacing conference workers who leave, they are spreading their responsibilities around to the ones who are still there. They are also making use of retired workers. Our recently retired communications director is now part-time webmaster for the conference website. Sister White said that it is not good for pastors to hover over the churches, that it makes them weak. She wrote that we should not expect a sermon every week, that most of our meetings should be testimony meetings. I believe this counsel is inspired by God, and that the churches would be a lot stronger if it had been followed. Look at the situation in other countries. It's places where one pastor has to serve so many churches that none of them see him very often that the church is growing the fastest. Here in North America, pastors are expected to do most of what really should be done by the members. Maybe this is why God is not intervening in the way people think He should. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
SivartM Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: SivartM Very good point, Redwood. Thank you. I was about to become embarrassed and head to bed. But since you were so kind to me ... maybe I will return ... Is this some sort of subtle sarcasm? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 Thanks Gramma. Good points. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: Redwood Thank you. I was about to become embarrassed and head to bed. But since you were so kind to me ... maybe I will return ... [/quote'] Is this some sort of subtle sarcasm? Just typical 'Redwoodisms'. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
SivartM Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: SivartM Just typical 'Redwoodisms'. I guess I haven't been here long enough to have anyone send me the list. It is a bit early for bed, isn't it? Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Woody Posted March 7, 2009 Author Posted March 7, 2009 Now you're gettin' the picture. You have to watch out for me ... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 I haven't been active for all that long this time either (since Redwood has been here), but I can vouch for this SivartM. There are a few others you have to watch out for too. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
SivartM Posted March 7, 2009 Posted March 7, 2009 *watches* Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
CyberGuy Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 So ... taking an axe to the local pastors is a better alternative? Because it is always the bottom feeders that get killed in protection of the higher ups. The Union a lot of work that if each conference had to do on its own would duplicate personal and work. Like Campmeetings and support for the local Union Colleges etc. Also it acts out as a mediator for disputes between conferences under its authority. If this was not done at the Union level it would be done at the division level but at no real savings. Remember Redwood that our Union the Pacific Union only employess about 60 people. That is only a fraction of the total cuts that will have to be made this year. Most of the cuts are being done by our schools. Teachers are taking a bigger hit than the pastors are. I do not hear you complaining about that? Quote Riverside CA
BobRyan Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 What is the situation with tithe funds? How much of the invested tithe funds were lost in the stock market down turn? in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316.
CyberGuy Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 What is the situation with tithe funds? How much of the invested tithe funds were lost in the stock market down turn? in Christ, Bob Yes there was losses in investments. All our 401K lost money. I have lost over $40,000 from my retiremennt about 35 percent of its total value. I still have 20 years till retirement so I am not worried..... YET. The church lost as well. Many have their bank accounts linked to the 30 day T bills. When the fed put the interest back to Zero it meant the church no longer gets interest off their checking account balances. I am sure the church lost some money on the stock market. Most are not so much as lost money but on lost expected interest on Tbills that now are close to zero interest. Budgets are shot as that expected interest is no longer there. That hurts and it comes to a point where the only option is to slash payroll. The reports now coming out is unemployment to hit 10 percent by this summer. If GM goes under it could be 12 percent. This is going to be a bad year for all of us in the church and outside the church. Quote Riverside CA
Woody Posted March 8, 2009 Author Posted March 8, 2009 Quote: Most of the cuts are being done by our schools. Teachers are taking a bigger hit than the pastors are. I do not hear you complaining about that? Hey ... give me time. I have plenty to complain about. I appreciate the invitation. Yes, our schools need help. I have a personal interest in schools also. MY wife teaches in our local SDA school. Do you REALLY want to get me started? That said .... I still think that pastors are the top priority of all these. That is why I feel that we could operate just fine without the Unions. That is unless someone finds that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow ... OR .... SDAs start paying a faithful tithe. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Joe_in_RP Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Quote: majority of SDAs DO NOT pay tithe? I am not sure I agree with that. I don't know how anyone but God could tell. I know many who send a portion of their tithe overseas. I do know Americans who pay double and one who paid triple tithe. The Lake union gives back a large portion of their tithe to local conferences. I suspect others do also. Two churches I attend this year keep the heat down through the week. I mean really down. When the midweek service was done we left. Another switched to many florescent bulbs. Quote
Woody Posted March 8, 2009 Author Posted March 8, 2009 Here's another one for your consideration ... The majority of SDAs do not even attend church once a year. Having been a church clerk ... I know. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Cosmin M. Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Probably for American churches that's true. But at a Romanian church we are always full. Quote
Woody Posted March 8, 2009 Author Posted March 8, 2009 Hi Cos .... IT's not a matter of being full. It is a matter of how many are on the books and how many come to church. The usual figure is that half of those on the books will never show their face. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Cosmin M. Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 What books are you talking about? The roster? Or the Book of Eternal Life? Quote
Woody Posted March 8, 2009 Author Posted March 8, 2009 The earthly ones. There are no books of SDAs in Heaven. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
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