SivartM Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Under law vs. under grace. You see "under law" the sinner must die. Under "grace" the sinner died in the humanity of Christ. The quote you gave is in relationship to the law. God, through Moses, gave the "old covenant", which was "obey and live, disobey and die". Then Israel (out of pride) entered that OC with their eyes fully open. So when one outwardly sinned they had to answer the law. There was no grace. Hence, we are either "under law" or "under grace". Under law there is only condemnation for none of us are fully meeting it's requirements even though, through the Spirit, we are growing. plently of grace in the old covenant. Exodus 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O LORD, let my LORD, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance. Psalm 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. I concur; in the Old Testament, grace was received by looking forward to Jesus with the symbols of the sanctuary and sacrifices. Now grace is easier to receive, but still the same grace people had in the Old Testament. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
olger Posted March 8, 2009 Posted March 8, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert Sure' date=' but at the same time he says, "those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." That's the aim....[/quote'] Yes... But... Legalism is very different to Obedience... We have been crucified with Christ, but we are also raised with Christ... We're raised with Christ to greater heights... To do His WILL... Not our own WILL... New life in Christ--now that is really awesome... Amen, Sir. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
GreatLakesGramma Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: True-believer Yes... But... Legalism is very different to Obedience... We have been crucified with Christ, but we are also raised with Christ... We're raised with Christ to greater heights... To do His WILL... Not our own WILL... New life in Christ--now that is really awesome... Amen, Sir. I second that Amen. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
Robert Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 plently of grace in the old covenant. Exodus 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O LORD, let my LORD, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance. No, the law doesn't forgive...there's no grace with the law. The law is the law and it says do this or die, period. Drop down to verse 28 of Ex 23: Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments. 29 When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the Lord Notice that the OC was the terms of the Ten Commandments! Also notice Moses' face was radiant. Now turn to 2 Cor 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. 12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech-- 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Covenant, because the veil is taken away in Christ. The terms of the law make up the Old Covenant. Paul calls it "the ministry of condemnation." There's no grace in the law! Here's EGW: PC- RH PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald DT- 10-17-07 AT- The Two Covenants PR- 08 The terms of the “old covenant” were, Obey and live: “If a man do, he shall even live in them” (Eze. 20:11; Lev. 18:5); but “cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them.” Deut. 27:26. Quote
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