True-believer Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Who said something about taking out something??? Why??? What do you want to take out first??? Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Kountzer Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 ??? you're weird. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Woody Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 ??? you're weird. Who is 'weird' ? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
True-believer Posted April 6, 2009 Posted April 6, 2009 Originally Posted By: Kountzer ??? you're weird. Who is 'weird' ? Whoever your calling "Weird" Kountzer, we say "Thankyou"... 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, A PECULIAR PEOPLE; that ye should show forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. The Bible itself calls us, "A Peculiar People"... The word "Peculiar" in the dictionary means, "Strange, odd, bizarre, funny, strange, weird, ordinary, normal. So before God we are "A Weird People"... Quote Luke 4:19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Kountzer Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 my bad. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Moderators Kevin H Posted April 7, 2009 Author Moderators Posted April 7, 2009 Kountzer: The point of my challenge is for you to look at the arguments this article brings up. He does a pretty good job at showing why we traditionally see Easter as borrowed from the Pagans, the orgins and the problems and false informaton in the traditioal view and argues that the evidence does not support it coming from the pagans. Although that's not to say that pagan ideas and traditions did not get picked up. Also, if you get the chance please read the Bible Review article I referred to. Some of the summery of that article is that: 1. The traditonal view of Christmas was that the church started cellebrating Jesus' birth of December 25 in the 4th century after Constantine was converted and to compormise with the pagans who were already celebrating December 25. -- but actually Christians began cellebrating the birth of Jesus one hundred years before Constantine, at a time when Christians were hiding in the catacombes and wanted nothing to do with anything pagan. It is one thing for the pagan compromising church after Constantine to take the pagan holiday, but we have the problem that the Pagan rejecting church one hundred years before Constantine cellebrating Jesus' birth on December 25. 2. If you go back 200 years before Constantine, back to the second century, the church had the feast of the annunciation. It started falling on Passover, when ever Passover was in relationship to the calender, but the year that the church stopped using the Jewish calender and started using the Roman calender Passover fell on March 25 in the western churches and synogogues however in Greece and the area of some Eastern churches, the Jews in these cities cellebrated Passover on April 6. So December 25 was not the original focus, but March 25 was cellebrating when the Angel told Mary that she was going to be the mother of the messiah. For about 100 years the church celebrated March 25 (or April 6) as the major holiday and the event being the annunciation. After 100 years of celebrating the annunciation on March 25 they began cellebrating the birth of Jesus nine months later.... Now what's 9 months after March 25? 3. A Jewish legend developed durring the intertestemental period. The Rabbies said that we should expect good things on Passover. They said that it was Passover when Yahweh and the 2 angels visited Abraham and told him that Isaac was going to be born, and that 9 months later falling usually sometime in December, around the tme of Hannukkah sometimes on December 25, the Jews believed to be the birth of Isaac. They also taught that it was another passover when Abraham brought Isaac to Mt. Moriah to sacrifice him. 4. During the second century durring the church - synogogue split the Christians were sayint that Isaac was only a type for Jesus the antitipe. That as Isaac was anounced on Passover, so Jesus was announced on Passover (thus the feast of the annunciaton on Passover). That just as Issac was born 9 months later in December (around the season that was to become Hannukkah)and sometimes falling on December 25, was the birth of Jesus. Thus December 25 for the birth of Jesus originally came from Jewish legend rather than being borrowed from Paganism. Oh, by the way, the "Feasts of the land" in the Bible were the pagan holidays focuseing on the agracultural cycle of the land of Canaan. Quote
Kountzer Posted April 7, 2009 Posted April 7, 2009 You can apply Occam's razor to all that arcane msg board jib jab and cut right to the biblical fact that if the Lord, who is all knowing, wanted us to celebrate those 2 dates, He would of told us when those dates were. He didn't tell us becasue He knew people would start worshipping and idolizing the date, which is what a lot of people do now. I realize those to holidays aren't going no where. I have a lot of fond memories of family fellowship and fun during the holidays. I've also heard a lot of good sermons about the events surrounding the life of Christ. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Daniel1632 Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 Hi, Well I think "Easter" doesn't belong in the bible. It's supposed to be Passover, and the resurrection was on the Sabbath: YLT John 20:1 And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb. Young's Literal Translation. That would be the first Sabbath after Passover according to the following passage: KJV Leviticus 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: Remember that the Passover was one of those annual Sabbaths, so in the year of the crucifixion it fell on Thursday. The resurrection was on the first weekly Sabbath after that. Daniel Quote http://www.torahtimes.org/book/ Free Online Chronology Book
delta Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 Jesus Himself never purchased peace by compromise. His heart overflowed with love for the whole human race, but He was never indulgent to their sins. He was too much their friend to remain silent while they were pursuing a course that would ruin their souls,--the souls He had purchased with His own blood. He labored that man should be true to himself, true to his higher and eternal interest. The servants of Christ are called to the same work, and they should beware lest, in seeking to prevent discord, they surrender the truth. They are to "follow after the things which make for peace" (Rom. 14:19); but real peace can never be secured by compromising principle. And no man can be true to principle without exciting opposition. A Christianity that is spiritual will be opposed by the children of disobedience. But Jesus bade His disciples, "Fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul." Those who are true to God need not fear the power of men nor the enmity of Satan. In Christ their eternal life is secure. Their only fear should be lest they surrender the truth, and thus betray the trust with which God has honored them. Quote
Daniel1632 Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 Quote: Jesus Himself never purchased peace by compromise. Good point. It was the translators who compromised after him by inserting "Easter" in the King James Version where the Greek has "Passover" (Acts 12:4) and by ditching the Sabbath when they corrupted MIA TON SABBATON into the "first day of the week" when its really "first of the Sabbaths". (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1, 29). Acts 20:1, 1 Cor. 16:2. Daniel Quote http://www.torahtimes.org/book/ Free Online Chronology Book
Woody Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 Rather than the use of the word 'borrowed' ... I would use the word taken over. Just like Christmas ... I really don't care of the fact that some pagan in some time of this earths history ... had this day. What matters is HOW we use it NOW. And it is NOW owned by Christians NOT pagans. The pagans lost the battle. Praise God. Happy Easter. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators antcreations Posted April 8, 2009 Moderators Posted April 8, 2009 AMEN!!! well said. Rather than the use of the word 'borrowed' ... I would use the word taken over. Just like Christmas ... I really don't care of the fact that some pagan in some time of this earths history ... had this day. What matters is HOW we use it NOW. And it is NOW owned by Christians NOT pagans. The pagans lost the battle. Praise God. Happy Easter. Quote http://antcreations.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/antcreations/
Members phkrause Posted April 8, 2009 Members Posted April 8, 2009 Easter? Happy Passover Redwood. Shalom (Peace) pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Daniel1632 Posted April 8, 2009 Posted April 8, 2009 KJV Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. It seems that a lot of Christian tradition is exactly that --- seeking after the customs, days, and rites of other gods. God isn't in favor of baptising pagan customs. It's not your perception of these pagan customs that counts. It's God's memory and reaction to them that counts: KJV Deuteronomy 12:31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. I'm willing to bet that Easter can be traced back to Canaanite fertiliy ritual's somewhere with child sacrifice. You may not remember all that nor most of the pagans. But God does. Quote http://www.torahtimes.org/book/ Free Online Chronology Book
Woody Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Somehow I just don't care. No one is respecting that un-named pagan. We have moved on well beyond that. The pagan lost. No one even has a clue about him. Go through the Easter Day parade and ask now many know what the pagan thought or who he was. No. We have moved on and Christianity has taken over. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
delta Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 You just don't care, uncle Redwood? Nice try, though. Yet...Oh well, no one even has a clue about Sunday sacredness and we're that having the End Time Message need to remain silent then. Shall the Advent Movement people has the Ecumenical mentality like this? We have the Light not for us be become boastfull, but to humbly share it to all people in darkness. That's the way we show our love to others and to our Lord as well. Then you said that We have move on and Christianity has taken over(?) If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Easter-paganism in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD! Amen. Quote
Woody Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 As long as I live ... I will honor and serve our RISEN Saviour. I dont' serve a Dead Saviour .. my Saviour is Risen. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Kountzer Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Agreed, but that can be done any time of the year. There is no set time to participate in the ceremony of Lord's supper. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass
Woody Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Yes. You can do it anytime of the year. But if you don't set aside at least one day .... you will probably not do it at all. That excuse is the same one that those opposed to the Sabbath use. Happy Easter ... Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Toni Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Yes. You can do it anytime of the year. But if you don't set aside at least one day .... you will probably not do it at all. That excuse is the same one that those opposed to the Sabbath use. Happy Easter ... That is why I set aside Passover. :-) Have you ever been to, or read through a Messianic Passover service? The symbolism is beautiful and amazing. Just had our Seder (Messianic style) last night with my family, and once again I am touched by my Savior's love and God's beautiful design. Then, First Fruits...the glorious resurrection! Passover-Jesus' sacrifice, redemption. Unleavened Bread-casting off our old nature of sin First Fruits-New life in Christ..a victorious life in Jesus. Quote Toni
Administrators Gail Posted April 9, 2009 Administrators Posted April 9, 2009 Wow- this is an interesting thread! Thanks, all! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Woody Posted April 9, 2009 Posted April 9, 2009 Originally Posted By: Redwood Yes. You can do it anytime of the year. But if you don't set aside at least one day .... you will probably not do it at all. That excuse is the same one that those opposed to the Sabbath use. Happy Easter ... That is why I set aside Passover. :-) Have you ever been to, or read through a Messianic Passover service? The symbolism is beautiful and amazing. Just had our Seder (Messianic style) last night with my family, and once again I am touched by my Savior's love and God's beautiful design. Then, First Fruits...the glorious resurrection! Passover-Jesus' sacrifice, redemption. Unleavened Bread-casting off our old nature of sin First Fruits-New life in Christ..a victorious life in Jesus. My wife has done Seder services at our church. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members phkrause Posted April 9, 2009 Members Posted April 9, 2009 We have this Jewish (He's an Adventist now) member who invites the SS class to his house each year for a passover seder. Its really cool. I enjoy it very much. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Daniel1632 Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Your sentiment is the same thing that cooked the Eastern Orthodox Church like a frog in the pan for a thousand years. They respected the Sabbath for a long time, but went about baptising every idol and pagan tradition in sight. So also Israel repected the Sabbath on the one hand, but when you turn your back they are worshipping the sun in the Temple (Ezekiel 8). So you think everyone has forgotten, and no one is offended. But you fail to address the criteria. The criteria for judging a pagan custom is if God is offended. Daniel Quote http://www.torahtimes.org/book/ Free Online Chronology Book
Daniel1632 Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Shalom Toni, Yes, we also keep the Lord's Supper at the time of Passover. KJV 1 Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. When you follow the biblical pattern, it really hits you that the Easter tradition is in Competition with what is prescribed in the Scripture. We also celebrate the Resurrection on the first Sabbath after Passover Daniel Quote http://www.torahtimes.org/book/ Free Online Chronology Book
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