Gay threat in Adventist church

[Elijah]

Here's a link. Your comments...

http://www.sdakinship.org/

(i'm from Russia, so i'm not so informed on this topic)

[phkrause]

Good post dgrimm

pk

[Gerr]

Welcome also, Elijah.

I doubt that a homosexual life-style would ever be accepted as normal or approved by God in the SDA church. Repentant/converted homosexuals who forsake that life-style are, of course, accepted as brothers/sisters in Christ, just like adulterers, murderers, thieves, etc. are accepted into the fellowship. After all, we are all forgiven sinners.

[Dr. Shane]

SDA Kinship is not an official part of the Seventh-day Adventist church. The gay lifestyle is not part of God's ideal plan for our lives. BUT... neither is gossiping, coveting, class envy, gluttony, pride, lying, laziness or drunkenness. We should not have a different attitude toward gay people than we do with any other sinners. All are welcome in our church. From my experience, when gay people decide to leave their lifestyle and join the church, they become better than Christians than the average.

[carolaa]

Kinship has been around for a long time.

[Woody]

Welcome also, Elijah.

I doubt that a homosexual life-style would ever be accepted as normal or approved by God in the SDA church. Repentant/converted homosexuals who forsake that life-style are, of course, accepted as brothers/sisters in Christ, just like adulterers, murderers, thieves, etc. are accepted into the fellowship. After all, we are all forgiven sinners.

Christ said 'come as you are'. He didn't say 'over come your sins and then come to me'. No. He wants us to come as we are ... THEN He will provide the power to overcome sin.

[Taylor]

Yes are are forgiven sinners who all have even more sins to be forgiven as we grow in grace in Jesus. Thankfully God accepts us where we are and loves us enough to help us not stay there.

[Taylor]

Yes and kinship is not an official part of the SDA church. The SDA church's stance on that lifestyle is the same as the Bible's. We can love the person but not condone what he does and kinship condones "committed" gay relationships...from what I understand. That lifestyle is condemned by the Bible, but where we often err as christians is equating the sin with the sinner. God loves all sinners, but doesn't condone their sin. Sin, all sin, has consequences...some are heavier than others (i.e. you live certain lifestyles...you may get some diseases you hadn't planned on, you gossip and you may get away with it for a while). But in God's eyes, sin is sin.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Welcome also, Elijah.

I doubt that a homosexual life-style would ever be accepted as normal or approved by God in the SDA church. Repentant/converted homosexuals who forsake that life-style are, of course, accepted as brothers/sisters in Christ, just like adulterers, murderers, thieves, etc. are accepted into the fellowship. After all, we are all forgiven sinners.

Christ said 'come as you are'. He didn't say 'over come your sins and then come to me'. No. He wants us to come as we are ... THEN He will provide the power to overcome sin.

It's true that we come to Him just as we are, but after we have really been with Him, we won't continue to live the same way but will repent and overcome our sins.

"Kinship" is an organization made up of SDAs which teaches gay people in the SDA church that having sex with a gay partner is NOT sin.

It does not teach that gays need to repent but rather it teaches them that God is OK with their continuing in that lifestyle. It teaches gays to resist the teaching that homosexual practice is wrong.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Christ said 'come as you are'. He didn't say 'over come your sins and then come to me'. No. He wants us to come as we are ... THEN He will provide the power to overcome sin.[/quote']

It's true that we come to Him just as we are, but after we have really been with Him, we won't continue to live the same way but will repent and overcome our sins.

"Kinship" is an organization made up of SDAs which teaches gay people in the SDA church that having sex with a gay partner is NOT sin.

It does not teach that gays need to repent but rather it teaches them that God is OK with their continuing in that lifestyle. It teaches gays to resist the teaching that homosexual practice is wrong.

Not directed at any one person ... but:

Personally ... I would rather have gays in the church who felt it was not sin to be gay .... than to have legalists who think it is not sin to be a legalist.

[Dr. Shane]

Personally ... I would rather have gays in the church who felt it was not sin to be gay .... than to have legalists who think it is not sin to be a legalist.

I think that is really getting into apples and oranges. I could also say, "I would rather have gays in the church who felt it was not sin to be gay .... than to have liars who think it is not sin to lie." but what would be the point? I think it is best to stay on topic than make the waters muddy.

[Woody]

I always muddy the waters ... I like to expand my brain. And as far as this subject goes .... it needs to be muddied.

The topic of the thread is 'Gay Threat'. I am addressing the 'degree' of the threat. And I don't think there is much of a threat. We are dealing with legalism in our churches ... I think we can also deal with those who are gay.

Sin is sin folks.

[Tom Wetmore]

TU Very true on the relative degree of the threat!

No more than 10% of the population is gay. *** The percentage in the church is not likely to be all that different, less likely and certainly not higher. I would strongly suspect the number of church members that lie is higher that 10%. I am sure the number that gossip is way higher. And I am fairly certain that the number that fornicate and commit adultery is also much higher. I also suspect we have more alcoholics and drug abusers in the church than homosexuals.

Wouldn't it be great if we put as much time, energy and effort into addressing those problems.

Tom

[Key Guy]

10% gay? In Key West it almost seems like more than 50-50 (not in our churches, though).

When I first moved here, I didn't know what to expect and I was not comfortable with the idea of rubbing shoulders with the G/L community. Although the flamers are whacked out, I have found most gays just want to live their lives without being harassed.

I truly perceive this segment of society to be miserable for the most part. Very sad. As a breeder, I don't know what I can do to effectively help spread God's message of love to the G/L community. Although not a 'basher', I'm just not comfortable with the thought of accepting the behavior while trying to show a better way.

What would Jesus do?

[Woody]

TU Very true on the relative degree of the threat!

No more than 10% of the population is gay. *** The percentage in the church is not likely to be all that different, less likely and certainly not higher. I would strongly suspect the number of church members that lie is higher that 10%. I am sure the number that gossip is way higher. And I am fairly certain that the number that fornicate and commit adultery is also much higher. I also suspect we have more alcoholics and drug abusers in the church than homosexuals.

Wouldn't it be great if we put as much time, energy and effort into addressing those problems.

Tom

Appreciate the thoughts Tom ...

If ONLY we could understand this and not have to rehash the same old issue of bashing gays while accepting a multitude of worse sins.

[Dr. Shane]

The 10% number is put out there by gay activist groups. Polls have shown when people are asked if they consider themselves gay, less than 2% of men say yes and less than 4% of women say yes. When asked if they have ever had sex with a member of the same sex, about 3% of men say yes and about 11% of women say yes.

The 10% number actually came out of a prison study of homosexuality. Those doing the study found that 10% of the prison population was gay.

[Woody]

Like you say ... the amount actually who would have the nerve to step into a Seventh day Adventist Church is really small. Why would you go somewhere where you would be abused.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Not directed at any one person ... but:

Personally ... I would rather have gays in the church who felt it was not sin to be gay .... than to have legalists who think it is not sin to be a legalist.

You might want to post what church you attend so that us legalists would/could avoid darkening the door or polluting the air you breathe.

[Woody]

Gerry ..... I would welcome all to come to my church ... even you would find it a pleasant place . That is if you could get beyond a women preachin' and no Ellen White quotes hammered over your head.

[olger]

TU Very true on the relative degree of the threat!

No more than 10% of the population is gay. *** The percentage in the church is not likely to be all that different, less likely and certainly not higher. I would strongly suspect the number of church members that lie is higher that 10%. I am sure the number that gossip is way higher. And I am fairly certain that the number that fornicate and commit adultery is also much higher. I also suspect we have more alcoholics and drug abusers in the church than homosexuals.

Wouldn't it be great if we put as much time, energy and effort into addressing those problems.

Tom

I believe that you make some valid points, Tom. Moral failure is a bigger problem than most people realize.

`oG

[olger]

There is no such thing as a Christian homosexual. Said Paul "And such were some of you."

[Woody]

I suppose you could say the same thing about a Christian Liar ... pretty soon ... none of us qualify for the label of Christian. Praise God ... Jesus is taking my place. I am a Christian because of Him.

[Dr. Shane]

Like you say ... the amount actually who would have the nerve to step into a Seventh day Adventist Church is really small. Why would you go somewhere where you would be abused.

I think that can be said of most churches regardless the denomination. A gay man once told be that he was the worst kind of sinner there is. He told me that before telling me that he was gay. I replied that I didn't know which kind of sinner was the worst. When he told me he was gay, I commented that I consider many other types of sinners worse than gays.

If we want to reach the gay population we need to actively reach out to them. They see themselves as being judged as the worse of all sinners by Christians because Christians oppose the gay rights movements. Thus they cannot separate politics and religion. We should keep this in mind when opposing the gay rights movement ourselves. While we may oppose granting special rights to gays, we ought never oppose gay people on a personal level. Gay people have just as much right to the blood of Christ as anyone else. In fact, when political issues about gays come up it is our opportunity to stress our belief in the salvation offered by our Lord.

[Dr. Shane]

Studies have shown about 10% of the population is alcohol. Since gays only make up about 2%-4%, it is safe to assume we have more alcoholics in the church than gays. However the treatment of both of these groups is not a simple as telling them to quit their behavior. This issues are deeply ingrained into their brains. It takes a lot of therapy to overcome these issues. Such therapy doesn't have to be professional. There are support groups for both alcoholics and gays that work quite well for those committed to overcoming.

[olger]

Feel free to gripe at Paul of Tarsus, an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ for his "insular" comments.