Bob & Bob

[Dr. Shane]

Please note I started this thread before all the Spongebob hysteria started.

I loath Hollywood. I don't hate any individual actor, director or screenwriter but I hate what they do. I believe that by beholding we become transformed and a lot of society's ills are due to Hollywood. I support the Christian media industry by buying their music, movies and subscribing to SkyAngel.

[Amelia]

"I" am not stating anything. I am merely posting what I find regarding this topic. After all, I want to retain my title as Golden Retriever. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Neil D]

What I don't like is the "potty mouth" cartoons, things like Simpsons, [i know its for adults, but the rational is that kids can watch it too and therefore, it's socially acceptable.] Bathroom humor has never been funny in my book, so why is there this push for it in cartoons? Why do TV executives think that this sort of thing is funny?

Now, I know of Spongbob Squarepants, but I have not see the cartoon. Frankly, most cartoons are not even close to being funny like Road Runner, or Pinky and the Brain, or Tom and Jerry...Yes, they use slap stick comedy to convey humor, but the situations are so rediculous as that makes them even funnier.

Bob the tomatoe and Larry the pickle/cucumber are just silly ways to pass the morals of the bible...and frankly, I am not sure that they are that much better, as they decimate the stories of the bible itself. What character of the bible NEEDS to be protrayed as a vegetable???

nuff said.

[Dr. Shane]

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I don't like is the "potty mouth" cartoons

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I agree. I don't like "potty mouth" movies or comedians either. Does anyone watch Bananas on PAX TV? That is some good clean humor.

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Bob the tomatoe

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I guess Dan Quayle isn't the only one who has trouble with spelling tomato. Hmmmm, I don't think the press ever gave us the whole story there.

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What character of the bible NEEDS to be protrayed as a vegetable???

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The creators of Veggie Tales are sensative to this critism and have promised to never portray Jesus as a vegetable. However many of the Veggie Tales episodes are not simply retold Bible stories. They have retold a lot like Joseph & Egypt, David and Golieth, Daniel and the Lion's Den, Daniel and the Three Hebrew Worthies, Joshua & The Walls of Jericho, Esther, Jonah and David and Besheba. However they also have many others that are not Bible stories like the Grapes of Wrath, Snoodle's Tale, Lyle the Kindly Viking, Maddam Blueberry, Sumo of the Opera, An Easter Carol, The Star of Christmas, The Toy That Saved Christmas, Wonderful World of Auto-tainment and Where's God When I'm Scared.

Additionally the Veggie Tales have come up with a super hero your children can safely watch. "Larry-Boy" He has six episodes out: The Angry Eyebrows, Leggo My Ego, The YodelNapper, The Good, Bad & Eggly, The Rumor Weed and the Fib From Outer Space. (None are retold Bible Stories)

[]http://www.bigidea.com/videos/larryboy/images/series_info.gif[/]

The Veggie Tales company "Big Ideas" has also made six videos in the "3-2-1 Penguins" series.

[]http://www.bigidea.com/videos/penguins/images/series_info.gif[/]

[Nicodema]

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...Can there be any greater contrast within our society than these two cartoons...

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Sponge Bob has nudity, vulgarity, violence and sexual perversion?!?! ... Are you really worried about a brief exposure to a naked cartoon square yellow sponge's bottom? Or the naked bottom of his duffus friend, the big pink cartoon starfish Patrick?! Vulgarity, violence and sexual perversions?!?!

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Without taking sides here I would like to point out two facts about cartoons historically:

(1) If you look at all the old looney toons cartoons (Daffy Duck, Bugs Bunny, etc.) from (I think?) the 40s or 50s and 60s-70s they all had "naked butts" -- regular animal butts. Sometimes the scenes were extremely provocative, especially if one character was intent upon giving another character a spanking. At the risk of displaying what a freak of nature I am, I will frankly and freely admit to having been sexually aroused at a very premature age (we're talking 6, 7 years old here) by watching these things. Of course, the fact that I was also being molested at that age might have had something to do with how I interpreted what I saw, so caveat emptor folks, about who sees what, where.

(2) It has been readily acknowledged that cartoons from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, etc. were actually made for adults. The jokes are way over childrens' heads and refer to adult things like politics, war, world situations at the time, adult situations, etc. Not necessarily risqué things, but sometimes "romantic" themes, jealousies, etc.

Just some extra info here ... to stir the coals ... don't burn yer lips now ...

[Nicodema]

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Thinking back on my childhood and imaginitive years, I can say that me and my friends never acted out anything we saw on TV. ... we were inventing our own ways of attempting to harm ourselves (jumping off the garage roof for whatever insane reason we had, rolling down the middle of the street inside a cardboard refridgerator box; again, no idea why) that we weren't getting from TV. So why didnt the TV of my childhood have the influence over us that it does over todays kids?

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A good question, Amelia. I remember first reading in Reader's Digest, when I was about 10 or 11 years old (that would have been circa 1975) how people were just beginning to sound the alarm about TV copycat risk behaviors, that is, children imitating things seen on television that were dangerous or even deadly. It wasn't very widespread back then, it had just begun to come to light, and it was spurred by live-action dramas rather than cartoons in all cases.

I think there is a definite difference when one generation grows up with something as somewhat of a novelty or a privilege and the next grows up with it as a given and/or a constant. Somewhere in that transition phase we start to see problems emerge which proliferate rapidly in the change over. That's one pattern I've noticed. There might be others incumbent in the scenario.

There may be other societal factors involved, like the breakdown of the home and family structure, the increasing trend for parents and children to spend less quality time together, and extended families to drift further apart, creating smaller and more fragile, transient, and expendable support structures outside the nuclear family. Tighter communities where extended families with strong values BALANCED WITH the ability to tolerate differences in character and personality among their members probably see less of this sort of thing, but these are becoming less common these days. With support resources on the wane, tighter-knit communities close inward toward more strident levels of conformity both to establish their identity and to secure their member positions within the group -- thus broadening the definition of "outsiders" and leaving more individuals fragmented and huddled in tinier units which cannot bear the stress loads of today's lifestyle the way larger units can, and thus are at risk for further deterioration at the individual level.

Even real estate prices drive societal fragmentation, by shoving people into more transient communities with little in common other than the need for affordable housing in a given area. Job competition is fierce, and neighbors have little time to do more than gripe with one another over imposed HOA statutes or whose dog dookied in whose yard. Even friendly ties only go so far due to time and constraints and the general trend of regarding oneself as unwarrantedly "intrusive" or "imposing" to actually ask something of one's neighbor in such communities.

There are so many factors here it would be difficult to pinpoint just one or two. We need to see the forest, not just the trees, while not failing to note where certain trees are placed, as it were ...

... just some thoughts ...

[cricket]

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Bob the tomatoe

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I guess Dan Quayle isn't the only one who has trouble with spelling tomato. Hmmmm, I don't think the press ever gave us the whole story there.

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In that case, here's part of the story:

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The creators of Veggie Tales are

sensative

to this

critism

and have promised to never portray Jesus as a vegetable. However many of the Veggie Tales episodes are not simply retold Bible stories. They have retold a lot like Joseph & Egypt, David and

Golieth

, Daniel and the Lion's Den, Daniel and the Three Hebrew Worthies, Joshua & The Walls of Jericho, Esther, Jonah and David and

Besheba

. However they also have many others that are not Bible stories like the Grapes of Wrath, Snoodle's Tale, Lyle the Kindly Viking,

Maddam

Blueberry, Sumo of the Opera, An Easter Carol, The Star of Christmas, The Toy That Saved Christmas, Wonderful World of Auto-tainment and Where's God When I'm Scared.

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[Bravus]

Let me just point out, once more, that SpongeBob is *not* promoting homosexuality, or even (gasp) tolerance for everyone, regardless of sexual orientation. It's all a mistake: two *different* 'We Are Family' websites were confused with one another. SpongeBob is promoting *racial* tolerance. Still want to claim he's 'being used by Satan', Shane?

Say whatever you like about the content of the cartoon - peurile probably covers most of it - but it's when Christians get into a finger-wagging frenzy when their basic facts are wrong, wrong, wrong that we bring Christ's name into disrepute. Ever thought maybe the Second Commandment isn't just about cussin'?

[Nicodema]

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Say whatever you like about the content of the cartoon - peurile probably covers most of it - but

it's when Christians get into a finger-wagging frenzy when their basic facts are wrong, wrong, wrong that we bring Christ's name into disrepute.

Ever thought maybe the Second Commandment isn't just about cussin'?

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Three thousand chorusing AMENS of hearty agreement ... and a gentle nudge that I believe you meant the Third Commandment, Brother.

[Bravus]

D'oh! Yep, that whole taking the Lord's Name in vain thing... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

(See when I get into some finger-wagging of my own I just trip up!)

[Dr. Shane]

Sister Christine, I have never claimed to be an ace speller. In fact I often state that if it wasn't for Bill Gates I wouldn't have made it through college. HOWEVER those of us that follow politics (like brother Neil & I) remember well the Dan Quayle and tomato incident.

The rest of the story is that Dan Quayle isn't the one that spelled the word wrong. He was reading words written on cards for a spelling bee. A teacher had mis-spelled the word on a card and when the boy spelled the word right, Dan Quayle told him it he was wrong. The press went wild and they even made bumper stickers insulting Dan Quayle. Few actually know it was the teacher who actually spelled the word wrong.

[Dr. Shane]

Brother Bravus, I have never, not once, claimed Spongebob promoted homossexuality. I think you are confusing me with Dr. Dobson.

In my home we are very careful about what we watch. There is a Sabbath School song that goes: "Oh be careful little eyes what you see..." and we heed that advice. So before buying any Spongebob videos for my kids I checked him out on Christian Spotlight All I know about Spongebob comes from the reviews on that site. I respect Dr. Dobson but do not know where he is coming from with his information. However from what I have read. Spongebob compared to Bob the Tomato is a good comparison to the whore of Babylon and the virgin bride of Christ.

[Nicodema]

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(See when I get into some finger-wagging of my own I just trip up!)

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LOL. I said a short prayer immediately after sending that post: "May God arise and shatter the hall of mirrors." Reason being? I know to what stale hell those kinds of things can send a person ... (2 Cor 2:11)

[cricket]

Shane, I apologize for sounding so snide in my remarks. It simply irked me when I read that you were poking fun of another when you, yourself have such a difficult time with spelling.

I do apologize.

[GreatLakesGramma]

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Brother Bravus, I have never, not once, claimed Spongebob promoted homossexuality. I think you are confusing me with Dr. Dobson.

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Dr. Dobson never claimed that Spongebob promoted homosexuality. Here's the truth: DR. DOBSON TAKES ON MEDIA OVER 'SPONGEBOB' CONTROVERSY

[Bravus]

Yes, so reading that article, Dr Dobson never said Spongebob was gay. (And I never said he did.) He said Spongebob was one of a group of cartoon characters being used to promote tolerance - and then said that was a problem because it included tolerance of gay people. Heaven forbid anyone should promote tolerance - we know our kids need to retain all the intolerance they can.

Look, whether you believe homosexuality is innate or chosen, there are gay people now. And Jesus loves them. The woman at the well was in sexual sin to just the same degree as a gay person, and Jesus showed tolerance and love to her (and that changed her heart and behaviour). Oh no, watch out, Jesus is promoting tolerance for drunks and whores and deviants.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Dr. Dobson doesn't reject tolerance for gay people either, rather he and his group object to schoolchildren being indoctrinated in acceptance of the gay lifestyle as morally and socially equivalent to heterosexual marriage.

[Bravus]

Uhuh, which I would accept, but that's not what the We Are Family Foundation stands for or does. Seems to me Dr Dobson is drawing a pretty long bow...

[Guest]

Rom 1

"24": Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

"25": Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

"26": For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

"27": And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Well evidently God gave them up but didn't give up?

Why didn't he have Abraham and Lot go door to door in Sodom handing out tracks and invite the gays and Lesbians to a Revelation seminar?

Why did he nuke it??

[Dr. Shane]

A lot of Christian parents send their children to public schools. This is another reason to favor vouchers. This homosexual tolerance program is not aimed at 16 and 17 year olds in high school or even 14 and 15 year olds in jr. high. It is aimed at 8 and 9 year olds in elementary school. Furthermore, Dr. Dobson's objection is that the schools are doing this without the parents knowledge so the Christian parents can't even explain to their children the difference between the sin and the sinner. Without such explanations many children will believe that since we need to accept the sinner we need to accept the sin.

[Bravus]

JimBob - find all the other texts that refer to the destruction of Sodom and Gommorha, and there might be some clues there that would have us nervously eying the sky...

[Nicodema]

I don't think everyone heard this so let's have it in bold and big and beautiful:

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Christ is the answer for the world's problems, not condemnation. Christ's own words were that He came not to condemn but to save. Can't we, Christianity, get off our 'pet peeve' soapbox and get on with living the 'Christ like' life of pointing others to God![?]

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[Nicodema]

Amen!

[Dr. Shane]

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Christ is the answer for the worlds problems, not condemnation.

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That is true because the world is already condemned. We need to keep this in context.

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He that believeth on Him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkeness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> John 3:18-20

Dr. Dobson points out correctly that homosexuals are condemned - not by Jesus who came to save - but by their own deeds of darkness. Dr. Dobson doesn't seem to be opposed to tolerance however he is concerned that in teaching tolerance our children are taught acceptance. Tolerance and acceptance are not the same and Christian parents should be involved when the government is teaching such things.

[Nicodema]

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Tolerance and acceptance are not the same

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That's a good point to make, yes. And I would also add that another problem we face is the intrinsic sin nature we ALL share regardless of how we are raised. People raised to think they have a corner on what is and is not sin -- and maybe they do if they know God's word, yes, maybe they know more than the average lost sheep, OK? -- might think it is OK to go out and "beat up" or "bully" the lost sheep.

The main problem I have with the homosexual issue in these approaches is that these people did not ask for this trait. They didn't plan to be this way or deliberately decide to be this way. It is as "normal" for them to desire intimacy with same-gender folks as it is for a heterosexual to desire it with the opposite gender. It's not like drugs or drink where a choice must be made to experiment and then go further. It's more like saying "I don't like you for having brown eyes or for being short" -- it's something they can't just pick and choose.

Somehow I think the Dobsons of this world overlook that, downplay or dismiss it. And we can't. Not if we are truly going to strive for tolerance and compassion toward them.