Should Obama Have Pity On Teen Somali Pirate and Let Him Go?

[bonnie]

Let's all remember that God loves this young man and died for him. It's easy to talk big and tough, but none of us really knows what lengths we would go to when in a desperate situation. Probably none of us knows what it is like to grow up in a lawless society.

God loves Charles Manson as well. He will never be released but if it were do we hear any takers to bring him home and be a christian mentor.

Jeffry Dalhmer was loved by God as well. He only ate parts of his victims. While God loved him as well I don't think he expected me to go to dinner at his home.

You take a lot of liberty with what you know about all of us.

While I understand there is great poverty. I also can figure out

if this whole group is intelligent enough and creative enough to pirate large ships they are also intelligent enough to figuure out maybe they should not be risking the lives of others.

Use their creativity to do something besides pillage and terrorize.

[Bravus]

The spirit and soul of America is great. The country does stand for freedom and justice. I'm utterly sincere about that. But that's why it horrifies me as you rush to throw all that away. Stick with it. Be America! I'm not antiAmerican, and I'm not jaded or cynical about freedom and justice, I'm committed to them. It's when you say 'lock them up without trial for life and throw away the key' that you betray the spirit of America.

[bonnie]

The spirit and soul of America is great. The country does stand for freedom and justice. I'm utterly sincere about that. But that's why it horrifies me as you rush to throw all that away. Stick with it. Be America! I'm not antiAmerican, and I'm not jaded or cynical about freedom and justice, I'm committed to them. It's when you say 'lock them up without trial for life and throw away the key' that you betray the spirit of America.

Please do me the favor of showing where I said this...........

I'm committed to them. It's when you say 'lock them up without trial for life and throw away the key' that you betray the spirit of America.

[there buster]

Quote:

Let's all remember that God loves this young man and died for him. It's easy to talk big and tough, but none of us really knows what lengths we would go to when in a desperate situation. Probably none of us knows what it is like to grow up in a lawless society.

the Canaanites lived in such a society, and God said to exterminate them.

[carolaa]

Yes carolaa agreed God loves him and died for him. But at the same time he needs to pay for what he has done here on this earth. You reap what you sow. Or my favorite one if you can do the crime than you can and should do the time.

This man or boy doesn't matter which one people consider him, should spent time in jail for what he has done.

pk

Yes, I am not saying he should not have consequences for what he did. I am just saying that God loves him and died for him, and because of that, we are required to love him, as well. It didn't seem like some of the comments I was reading were showing much love or concern for our "enemy." It seemed more like dogs salivating at the sight of fresh meat.

[phkrause]

Gotya,

pk

[John317]

Yes, I am not saying he should not have consequences for what he did. I am just saying that God loves him and died for him, and because of that, we are required to love him, as well. It didn't seem like some of the comments I was reading were showing much love or concern for our "enemy." It seemed more like dogs salivating at the sight of fresh meat.

Of course God loves him and died for him. That is true of everyone, including the worst criminals in human history.

There is a big difference between individual Christians treating kindly and the state forgiving him and letting him go free. The state has an obligation to bring criminals to justice. It isn't showing criminals love when we let them get away with murder and other crimes.

You can't blame people for being glad to see justice being done.

We should hope that the rest are finally captured and brought to justice. That would mean if I see them, I would be loving toward them on a personal level, but at the same time I would tell them that they need to be punished and prevented from being able to do those things ever again.

In my work I often gave short Bible studies and prayed with prisoners who deserved their punishment. I found that sometimes being locked up was the best thing that could happen to them. In there they have time to think and time to study the Bible. Hopefully that is what will happen to this young man.

[Dr. Shane]

We have to understand how evil piracy is. It has been so many years since it was a problem, I think few living today truely grasp its evil.

The shipping industry moves everything and it is the cheapest way to move cargo from one place to another. Typical cargo ships will be carrying food, clothing, automobiles, pharmaceuticals, books, electronics and most any other type of product one can think of. The ship is the link between the seller and the buyer. Without the ship the buyer cannot purchase the goods he or she needs or wants and the vendor cannot sell them.

Imagine if we were all on life support machines and a pirate took over the power supply. Mass transportation is the heart of commerce and without commerce we die. I doubt this pirate even realizes how serious his crime is. Piracy is not just a crime against a small group of sailors and a private shipping company. Piracy is a crime against humanity.

The area off from Somalia that these pirates are terrorizing is just before the Suez Canal. It is the shortest route between Europe and the Far East. Their crime is a very serious one and needs to be dealt with severely.

[carolaa]

I understand both of your points. But I think it wouldn't hurt to have a little sympathy/empathy for people who are young and impressionable and practically forced into doing this for survival. It's not unlike the gangs in some neighborhoods of the U.S., where the pressure to join is incredible - except in the U.S., a person can make a choice to stay in school, stay straight, and make a better life for themselves. In Somalia, there is no better life to be had, only extreme poverty, aside from piracy. I'm not trying to defend piracy. It's horrible - all the way around. But it doesn't sound very Christlike to be sitting over here in our easy chairs drooling over revenge and making this boy an example.

[Dr. Shane]

Making the boy an example and revenge are two different things. I have no desire for revenge whatsoever. I hope this young man finds Christ and goes to heaven.

The purpose of making him an example is to deter future attacks. If the world's nations decide to end piracy off the Somalia coast they will only be successful by being very hard on those captured and very consistent.

[carolaa]

That's all fine. It's the drooling and gloating and total lack of empathy that I think I am hearing that bothers me. God does not rejoice in the punishment of the wicked.

[Key Guy]

From Bloomberg.com

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aGWlmaGS9btk&refer=us

Quote:

Prosecutors said in a criminal complaint that Muse was the leader of the pirate crew that seized the Alabama. Muse was the first pirate to board the ship, fired at the captain from the deck, forced Phillips to stop the ship, and demanded that he hand over $30,000 from the ship’s safe, according to the complaint, which recounts statements made by Phillips.

Nice little boy

[Woody]

Quote:

Piracy is a crime against humanity.

Thank you for pointing this out Shane. This is SO true.

[John317]

From Bloomberg.com

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aGWlmaGS9btk&refer=us

Quote:

Prosecutors said in a criminal complaint that Muse was the leader of the pirate crew that seized the Alabama. Muse was the first pirate to board the ship, fired at the captain from the deck, forced Phillips to stop the ship, and demanded that he hand over $30,000 from the ship’s safe, according to the complaint, which recounts statements made by Phillips.

Nice little boy

In my work, I got to know a lot of little boys who were twice my size and would just as soon cut your throat as spit. Yes, they know perfectly what they are doing, and they take advantage of people who feel pity for them, and while you are crying for them, they will be calling you a fool.

We need to be loving towards them but not naive and foolish. "Tough love" is usually the best way to approach these kinds of boys. If they're ever going to learn, that's the only way it will get done.

[Key Guy]

Quote:

We need to be loving towards them but not naive and foolish. "Tough love" is usually the best way to approach these kinds of boys. If they're ever going to learn, that's the only way it will get done.

I submit that tough love works for all relationships. I am not saying we should be always tough to our loved ones. I am saying that all relationships should have clearly defined boundaries. Relationships work best when all parties know where they stand.

I hate games of the heart.

[John317]

I agree with you, KeyGuy. Actually, kids want to know where the boundaries are. They will often "act out" in order to find out where those boundaries are. They're not conscious of doing this but that's really what's all about.

( Oh yeah, there's a coupla forum members who are the same way.) :-)

[Key Guy]

You nailed it. Adults do the same thing.

[olger]

Good stuff.

[Amelia]

First of all this is not a normal boy raised in normal surroundings. (ie normal being raised with parents in a stable family setting) He very well could be an orphan. All those boys could be. I read where none of the piracy money goes to the general populace of Somali but government officials get a large kickback. And that the more outragious the piracy act, the larger the cut for the pirate. That means that the boy who jumped on the boat first and fired gets the larger share than his cohorts. All of this is encouraged by the pirate leaders. .I liken the pirate boys to girls being prostituted. Children being forced into armys/war. All of which can be found throughout Africa. Poor, uneducated, starving children forced into adult positions for the gain of others.

Quote:

piracy

maritime law

any robbery or other violent action, for private ends and without authorization by public authority, committed on the seas or in the air outside the normal jurisdiction of any state. Because piracy has been regarded as an offense against the law of nations, the public vessels of any state have been permitted to seize a pirate ship, to bring it into port, to try the crew (regardless of their nationality or domicile), and, if they are found guilty, to punish them and to confiscate the ship.

Quote:

Law of nations

Piracy is of note in international law as it is commonly held to represent the earliest invocation of the concept of universal jurisdiction. The crime of piracy is considered a breach of jus cogens, a conventional peremptory international norm that states must uphold. Those committing thefts on the high seas, inhibiting trade, and endangering maritime communication are considered by sovereign states to be hostis humani generis (enemies of humanity).[83]

In the United States, criminal prosecution of piracy is authorized in the U.S. Constitution, Art. I Sec. 8 cl. 10:

The Congress shall have Power ... To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations

Quote:

UNCLOS Article 101: Definition

In the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) of 1982, "maritime piracy" consists of:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;

(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

( any act of voluntary participation in the operation of a ship or of an aircraft with knowledge of facts making it a pirate ship or aircraft;

© any act of inciting or of intentionally facilitating an act described in subparagraph (a) or (.[86]

[bonnie]

This boy is not an orphan. He at least has his mother.

Regardless of the why they are in this the fact remains that it endangers the lives of many. An orphan can pull the trigger as easily as a boy from a stable intact family or adult male.

The people they terrorize and hold captive for ransom should nat have to pay for their situations,which none of us can change.

Only the citizens of that country can change how things are run

[carolaa]

First of all this is not a normal boy raised in normal surroundings. (ie normal being raised with parents in a stable family setting) He very well could be an orphan. All those boys could be. I read where none of the piracy money goes to the general populace of Somali but government officials get a large kickback. And that the more outragious the piracy act, the larger the cut for the pirate. That means that the boy who jumped on the boat first and fired gets the larger share than his cohorts. All of this is encouraged by the pirate leaders. .I liken the pirate boys to girls being prostituted. Children being forced into armys/war. All of which can be found throughout Africa. Poor, uneducated, starving children forced into adult positions for the gain of others.

I have read that the boy does have parents, but I don't know their circumstances. I appreciate your thoughts, though.

[minky]

I'm not saying an eye for an eye but lets face it Piracy in this region have been going on for over 100 years, the pirates come out with their large nets, reap the benefits. While the natives can barely make a living.

Killing the pirates were wrong without any negotiations. I believe that whether Obama has pity or not the law is on this teen side. I believe that Obama should not only have pity, but make himself aware of whats going on and why, he's looked upon as a world leader not just the president of the united states. We must stop Bomb Bomb Bomb, and find peace.

[olger]

Maybe the pirate should get a free credit card too.

As I sign off, I am curious how the "law is on the side" of this lawbreaker. Romans 13 says otherwise.

rejoice always,

og

[Dr. Shane]

We must stop Bomb Bomb Bomb, and find peace.

The United States is not the problem. These are pirates. An no, this has not been going on for 100s of years. Piracy has not been a problem in this area for many decades. It hasn't been a problem in any area.

[Tom Wetmore]

Piracy has been a serious problem in Southeast Asia for decades, particularly along the coast of Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and in the South China Sea. Indonesian waters, especially the Straits of Malacca has been the most serious hotspot, accounting for 1/3 of the acts of piracy worldwide in some years.

For more info - http://www.icc-ccs.org/