Micheal Jackson, what did he accomplish?

[D. Allan]

Artur Rubenstein was my Idol as a teenager. I attended 3 or 4 of his concerts at Veteran's Memorial Colisem in Columbus, Ohio. He had a legendary memory. Vladimir Hororitz was another favorite. Glenn Gould was fascinating. Rachmaniov -

In popular music it was Aretha Franklin that I loved.

dab

[GreatLakesGramma]

I was never a fan of Michael Jackson either. My teens idols were Three Dog Night, BJ Thomas, and Neil Diamond. The Jacksons' music just didn't appeal to me. I also have always liked classical, especially Vivaldi's Four Seasons, and Handel's Messiah.

[carolaa]

I always enjoyed the Jackson 5 and the early Michael Jackson music. As he got older and wierder, I liked his music less. But he was always a great entertainer. Didn't he make the moonwalk popular? I remember everyone was trying to do it.

[GreatLakesGramma]

He had not been a solo act for very long when I quit listening to secular music. So I personally know nothing about his history as an entertainer, except what I have read since he died. But I saw him on the tabloid papers so many times as I waited in the checkout line at the grocery store, I was always somewhat acquainted with the nature of his personal problems, though I believe very little of what the tabloids have to say about anything.

I always felt sorry for him. He didn't have anything even remotely resembling a normal childhood. It's no wonder he became so weird. You could tell he had some serious emotional problems, just by seeing his pictures, the way he kept having plastic surgery until he ended up looking like a freak, when he had looked just fine before he had any of it done.

[Dr. Shane]

To claim to forgive criminal or abusive acts done to others by MJ is an insult to those that who may have been truly hurt by him.

I disagree. If I can condemn someone that has not harmed me personally, I can also forgive someone that has not harmed me personally. My condemnation or forgiveness may have little meaning to that person but it has great meaning to me. When I forgive someone I am releasing them from my condemnation. My forgiveness does not absolve them from their guilt. That type of forgiveness can only come from God.

I do not have a problem with secular music as long as it is not morally objectionable. A lot of secular music's lyrics are morally objectionable so I find a lot of secular music to be spiritually unhealthy for me. However Micheal Jackson had a lot of songs that were not morally objectionable that I find enjoyable and uplifting.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Except your "forgiveness" is the one that is actually meaningless, since Mr. Jackson never did anything to you. And since the court acquitted him of the charges against him, you had no business condemning him in the first place. Doing so is to put yourself above the courts of law.

[SherryLee]

I so appreciate the information from those of you who shared the good that Michael Jackson did for the world. How much better to remembmer the good someone left behind then to remember the bad things that were reported about them.

We tend to forget that the media has a way of dramatizing things, and blowing things out of proportion. We also forget that many children who, with the help of their parents, who accused MJ, did so to try to get his money, and, believe it or not, there are kids out there who will lie about an adult for many different reasons.

Just because a kid is a kid does not make him truthful. A lot of kids nowadays fantasize and make up stories, living in a make-believe world. There are Young girls who for whatever tell lies about a teacher just to get them in trouble. Some of these stories are real whoppers, and people will believe the child before believing the teacher. Yes, some of the stories may be true, but many are not.

Just my thoughts,

SherryLee

[Robert]

He made many children happy but than he used other children for his own pleasure.

Supposition and speculation....If you aren't absolutely sure I wouldn't repeat it....

Rob

[Robert]

To claim to forgive criminal or abusive acts done to others by MJ is an insult to those that who may have been truly hurt by him.

God forgives you of your criminal acts....Is that an insult?

[Stan]

The bigger question is this

What have WE/ME/YOU accomplished with our gifts?

Is it going to be "Package returned, unopened"?

[bonnie]

Quote:

I so appreciate the information from those of you who shared the good that Michael Jackson did for the world. How much better to remembmer the good someone left behind then to remember the bad things that were reported about them.

We tend to forget that the media has a way of dramatizing things, and blowing things out of proportion. We also forget that many children who, with the help of their parents, who accused MJ, did so to try to get his money, and, believe it or not, there are kids out there who will lie about an adult for many different reasons.

Just because a kid is a kid does not make him truthful. A lot of kids nowadays fantasize and make up stories, living in a make-believe world. There are Young girls who for whatever tell lies about a teacher just to get them in trouble. Some of these stories are real whoppers, and people will believe the child before believing the teacher. Yes, some of the stories may be true, but many are not.

Just my thoughts,

SherryLee

Within our own denomination they have stated 8 out of 10 allegations of sexual abuse are true.

Some are not true but the word many is not one that really applies.

[bonnie]

Quote:

To claim to forgive criminal or abusive acts done to others by MJ is an insult to those that who may have been truly hurt by him.

Quote:

God forgives you of your criminal acts....Is that an insult?

To equate God's forgiveness with that of mere humans is a insult.

Any sin,criminal or otherwise is an offense against God while not necessarirly a offense against you or yours.Unless you are placing humans on the level of God.

You cannot forgive those that have harmed my family as I cannot forgive those that have harmed you.

I do believe MJ was a pedophile whether he was convicted or not. His own actions and words left little doubt. Any man that volunteers he sleeps with young boys has some problems. His sisters belief that he was guilty would have been further reasons for not trusting him.

Problems I would not want my sons to have to deal with.

Never under any circumstance I could control was he a man that would have unsupervised contact with my sons at a vulnerable age. Regardless of any good act he pepformed or the level of his talent and Regardless of any "forgiveness given" by those that are not involved or harmed by the actions of a pedophile

[Robert]

I do believe MJ was a pedophile whether he was convicted or not. His own actions and words left little doubt.

You "believe", but you don't know...."little doubt" isn't proof and those who judge are condemned by their own sins....How so? Sin is sin....

[Amelia]

*gp

This thread has wandered off topic. Please post about the good things Michael has done and not the his perceived sins that none of us really have the power to judge.

Thanks

Amelia

[D. Allan]

Quote:

The bigger question is this

What have WE/ME/YOU accomplished with our gifts?

Is it going to be "Package returned, unopened"?

Michael did use his gifts to bless many people. Sometimes we might think ours are too insignificant to share. 'Use it or lose it' - some say. Use it and strengthen it.

dab

[Dr. Shane]

Except your "forgiveness" is the one that is actually meaningless, since Mr. Jackson never did anything to you. And since the court acquitted him of the charges against him, you had no business condemning him in the first place. Doing so is to put yourself above the courts of law.

1) Forgiving someone is never meaningless. Forgiving is releasing someone from my condemnation. That is always meaningful - especially for the one that is forgiving.

2) The court system in the United States NEVER finds anyone innocent. When the government accuses someone of a crime the burden of proof is on the government to prove the person's guilt. When a person is found not guilty it simply means the government failed to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. There are many reasons the government often fails to do that. The accused being innocent is only one of several reasons they may be found not guilty.

3) Even when a person is found guilty by the justice system, it still does not give me the right to condemn them. I may express disapproval for what they did but I should actively work/pray for their salvation.

[D. Allan]

Quote:

I always felt sorry for him. He didn't have anything even remotely resembling a normal childhood.

That's right, Gramma. He never got to play with the other children.

Mozart also was had a musical prodigy's childhood. He entertained Royalty and sat on their knees as a child yet died penniless - buried in an unmarked grave. Beethoven's father would come home drunk, drag little Ludwig out of bed and make him practice. His father wanted another Mozart. Yet Beethoven was always scrambling to make a buck, or deutchmark.

Of course money can never compensate for losing one's childhood.

dab

[jasd]

>>Now I'm off to listen to some nice classical stuff. Maybe something composed by a homosexual (Tchaikovsky), mentally unstable person (Schumann), drug addict (Berlioz) or Freemason (Mozart).<<

I guess I’m paged – on another classical note: la-la-la-la, la-la, yum-de-do-da, la-la... dum-dedum (jasd, reintarnation, a born again hillbilly)

I also enjoy listening, lots – to the real classical stuff – though dilettanteishly.

[jasd]

Re Michael: the Lord blesses whom He will. To whom much is given, much is required.

I knew a woman who was below everyone’s radar – except the IRS’s. She was audited, as someone at the IRS could not believe that anyone could live on almost nothing except bologna and mayonnaise on white bread. Turns out

she was giving her substance to the work of her Gd.

‘ware of the IRS; they even investigate your eating habits! :-o

[carolaa]

I find that a little hard to swallow.

(pun intended)

[jasd]

[GreatLakesGramma]

Someone I knew was also audited by the IRS, because they didn't believe they could live on the little income they had. He had lost his job & couldn't find another, so the family grew all their own food, heated with wood, and bought nothing that wasn't an absolute necessity.

[lazarus]

jasd

You've changed (of course it's not me). Disturbingly, I find myself agreeing with you most of the time now. Maybe someone has hijacked your account.

[jasd]

...long time no see!

>>Disturbingly, I find myself agreeing with you most of the time now.<<

Umm, lazarus, not good, not good

>>Maybe someone has hijacked your account.<<

‘sme alter ego.

Quote:

Quote:jasd

(jasd, reintarnation, a born again hillbilly)

Speaking of good ol’ boys and their music – which might just have some relativity here.

Yesterday, when I was young,

The taste of life was sweet, as rain upon my tongue,

I teased at life, as if it were a foolish game,

The way the evening breeze may tease a candle flame

The thousand dreams I dreamed, the splendid things I planned,

I always built, alas, on weak and shifting sand,

I lived by night, and shunned the naked light of day,

And only now, I see, how the years ran away

Yesterday, when I was young,

So many happy songs were waiting to be sung,

So many wild pleasures lay in store for me,

And so much pain, my dazzled eyes refused to see

I ran so fast that time, and youth at last ran out,

I never stopped to think, what life, was all about,

And every conversation, I can now recall,

Concerned itself with me, and nothing else at all

Yesterday, the moon was blue,

And every crazy day, brought something new to do,

I used my magic age, as if it were a wand,

And never saw the worst, and the emptiness beyond

The game of love I played, with arrogance and pride,

And every flame I lit, too quickly, quickly died,

The friends I made, all seemed somehow to drift away,

And only I am left, on stage to end the play

There are so many songs in me, that won't be sung,

I feel the bitter taste, of tears upon my tongue,

The time has come for me to pay,

For yesterday, when I was young

--Roy Clark (get it on You Tube)

"Mama, don't let your sons grow up to be cowboys"

[phkrause]

Wow Roy Clark, now there is a man with many talents. He could play any instrument, and play it well. He could sing, dance and even be a comedian, and even an actor.

pk