Just what IS the adventist church currently?

[Neil D]

As I look over the thread in Townhall, I see more conspiracy theorists, and paranoia spread and accepted as "truth". What ever happened to solid evidence in presenting the Good News about Jesus....??

I used to see some history that was accepted as true within mainstread historians that coincided with our prophetic version of history. Now I see sermizings [sp] that border along paranoia and dysfunctionalizm within the church as common place.

Who are we as a church? Just where is the adventist church going to? Do we have God's favor anymore? Is it better than other churches? Why should that affect who we are? Just who are we as a church?

[Neil D]

The problem with being a "follower" is that it appears that followers of this christ are extreemly dysfunctional and paranoid.....

Why is that?????

please excuse my frustration here....

[phkrause]

Neil I think you should ask yourself.

pk

[Neil D]

Neil I think you should ask yourself.

pk

Clarify please.....

[Bravus]

The SDA church is an increasingly exclusive club that seems to be far more interested in who it can define out than who it can bring in.

[carolaa]

I see us as having passed that hump and starting to swing the pendulum back (how's that for cliches?). But maybe it depends on what part of the world you're in.

[Woody]

Yes, a large number of posts in this regard. They may be actually a minority. But they are an annoying minority. A burr in one's saddle.

[olger]

As I look over the thread in Townhall, I see more conspiracy theorists, and paranoia spread and accepted as "truth". What ever happened to solid evidence in presenting the Good News about Jesus....??

I used to see some history that was accepted as true within mainstread historians that coincided with our prophetic version of history. Now I see sermizings [sp] that border along paranoia and dysfunctionalizm within the church as common place.

Who are we as a church? Just where is the adventist church going to? Do we have God's favor anymore? Is it better than other churches? Why should that affect who we are? Just who are we as a church?

I think your rant is a conspiracy to find secret church members and turn them in to the Paranoia Police. Black `copters `n all.

g

[Planey]

I think your rant is a conspiracy to find secret church members and turn them in to the Paranoia Police. Black `copters `n all.

Sounds like an excellent idea to me.

Bring on the whirly-birds!

Graeme

[Dr. Rich]

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck and flys like a duck then I would say it is a duck-so to speak. Has anyone taken a gander at what the Kingdom of Heaven will look like in Matthew 25:1-13?

I see a group of people that came from all the other religions to form a group because they thought Jesus was going to come in 1843. They used Daniel's 8:14 prophecy for the timing, so the time was right, they just got the event wrong. Also, the event they thought was going to happen was the coming in the clouds but what will really happen to them is the coming like a thief--an event they are not expecting.

This group mistakenly thought they were the bride when the words tell us they were actually the servants for the bride-the ones in charge to get the bride ready for the wedding. They all were waiting for Jesus to come and when He didn't come (because no one was ready with the real truth), they make all kinds of excuses and drifted off to sleep (spiritually).

Therefore, Jesus gave them seven messages found in Revelation 2 and 3, but they have no idea who they are and have misapplied their understanding so that they do not know the true meaning of these messages.

Now look at Matthew 25: 14-30 Please notice verse 14 that says; "again, it will be like..." Therefore this group will be like this too. Here we see three people representing perhaps three groups-as in Revelation 17:14, these being the ONE faithful servant found in Matthew 24:45, the 144,000 being the 'fellow servants' and those found in Rev. 3:4,5, and then the Kingdom of Heaven-aka the five wise maids.

Please notice that the Mastor is gone! These three are unable to ask the Master what to do with the talents. They MUST decide themselves what to do. Therefore they will NOT have any 'personal relationship' with the Master at this time.

Matthew 25:31-46 is the event called the coming in the clouds. This event is after the coming like a thief which was to seal the 144k and the 5 wise maids and after the time of trouble where during this time the 144k and the 5 wise maids did their work (Revelation 19:8) to get the bride ready (Revelation 7:9-14) for the wedding-that being the coming in the clouds. Enjoy!

[fccool]

Dr. Rich, I think you are reaching for a conclusion when you pull these verses . These parables do not apply to THE GROUP of people, but were to teach a general lesson about the kingdom of heaven... hence why many of these begin with "the kingdom of heaven is like"...

[fccool]

But, to give my thoughts on the original post:

I think that today's Adventist suffers from the "chosen" people complex that Jews experienced in the OT. So, the idea is that SDA DEMOMINATION has the monopoly on truth and favor with God more than any other Christian groups out there.

I think that we forgotten some of the most important passages in the Bible:

Quote:

1If with the tongues of men and of messengers I speak, and have not love, I have become brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling;

2and if I have prophecy, and know all the secrets, and all the knowledge, and if I have all the faith, so as to remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing;

3and if I give away to feed others all my goods, and if I give up my body that I may be burned, and have not love, I am profited nothing.

I think that part of the problem is our confusion of what church to be... the Biblical purpose of the church.

It was never meant to be a 501c3 organization with officers and accountants, and lawyers, and presidents... a political entity. That's NOT church!

Church is a COMMUNITY, and God set it up for us to grow in truth by way of communication, care for each other, and care for our immediate neighbor... but above all, to be encouraged to grow INDIVIDUALLY, in both knowledge and love.

Today, we are "going to church"... and forget that we are the church. We are going to "worship God for couple hours on Saturday", and forget that most of our God worshiping happens outside of that time frame.

It does not matter how many songs we sing, and how many children's stories we tell, if we don't follow the example of Christ... taking care of the needy, showing compassion and interest in people, even though they may not "convert".... the church will decay.

Sure, warning people about things to come is important task, yet it should never be more important than loving them and showing true interest outside of the "duty of spreading the 3 angel's message".

That message is meaningless for people without Christ.

[wayfinder]

We keep the covenant of love, the Ten commandments, that is why we keep the seventh day holy. If that makes us special so be it.

[fccool]

You just broke one of them (hint... define ... "keep")

[wayfinder]

Follow the Ten Commands which are the covenant of the kingdom of God.

Ex 19:5 'Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine...

De 9:11 "It came about at the end of forty days and nights that the LORD gave me the two tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant.

Re 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever."

Re 11:19 And the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm.

Same covenant, different kingdom.

[fccool]

8and all the people answer together and say, `All that Jehovah hath spoken we do;' and Moses returneth the words of the people unto Jehovah.

Keeping the commandments emplies... KEEPING THEM!!!!! Not... trying to keep them.... KEEPING THEM MEANS, YOU DON'T BREAK A SINGLE ONE .

Now, if you strive to keep all 10, that would be more correct statement, but striving to keep them is not enough Biblically. Thus you need a mindset change...(heart change), which is a slow process.

To tell people that they should keep the 10 commandments is not enough, and claiming to keep all 10 is not enough. Jews claimed to keep all 10, including the Sabbath... but they did not keep it in the Spirit and purpose... only in letter and law. There's much to 10 commandments than mere 10 should and should nots.

Adventists today don't keep 10 commandments.

[Woody]

IF we could keep the commandments .... we would not need the sacrifice of Jesus.

I prefer to be a sinner saved by Grace. I don't want to get a big head thinking I can answer the curse of the Law.

[wayfinder]

The Ten Commandments are not hard or impossible to keep, despite what Paul may have to say about it!

De 5:29 ' Oh that they had such a heart in them, that they would fear Me and keep all My commandments always, that it may be well with them and with their sons forever!

[wayfinder]

Are you saying that God cursed His kingdom by giving them the Ten Commandments. That God was unrighteous in expecting Israel to keep the commandments, being impossible to keep.

Paul is the only one who teaches this salvation theology, look it up.

The Son of God was sacrificed as the Passover Lamb, the Passover was instituted before the Law, the Ten Commandments, were given to Moses. If the Son of God was the Passover Lamb then His execution could not do away with the Law.

[Woody]

Certainly His sacrifice didn't do away with the law .... it answered it. It paid the penalty.

[wayfinder]

Revelation 5:9,10 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

Da 7:27 'Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of {all} the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom {will be} an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.'

Re 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Who serve and obey Him. Keeping the Commandments of God.

I don't see cursed or bigheaded used anywhere here.

[Woody]

Quote:

I don't see cursed or bigheaded used anywhere here.

The Law will curse you with death if you don't keep it perfectly. We have two choices ...

1.) Keep the law perfectly

or

2.) Accept the one and only person who has answered the curse of death that the law brings .... JESUS CHRIST.

As for me and mine .... we will accept the sacrifice and life of Jesus on my behalf. That is our only assurance.

[wayfinder]

Which one of the Ten Commandments do you find impossible to keep?

[wayfinder]

The Law does not curse you with death, it gives you life by making you a member of the Kingdom of Heaven.

[Dr. Rich]

Fccool wrote “Dr. Rich, I think you are reaching for a conclusion when you pull these verses . These parables do not apply to THE GROUP of people, but were to teach a general lesson about the kingdom of heaven... hence why many of these begin with "the kingdom of heaven is like"...

I would agree with you but for this: Many of the ‘stories’ that Jesus gave were to tell what the Kingdom was like AT THE TIME Jesus was talking. However, Matthew 25 is a continuation of Matthew 24 where Jesus is talking to the disciples and telling them what is going to happen in the future. We call this prophecy—right? Matthew 24:45 to the end is talking about coming like a thief. The very next thing Jesus said is this; “At that time”…(NIV) or “Then…” (NAS and KJV) “the Kingdom of Heaven will be comparable to ten virgins (bridesmaids)…” What Jesus is doing is giving us a prophecy about the same kingdom that was prophesied about in Dan. 2—the kingdom that will be set up during the end time and will last forever. Jesus did the same thing with the prophecy on how this same kingdom will be like in with the ten talents. In both of these prophecies, Jesus is not present-right? So tell me, how could one have a so-called personal relationship with someone who is not present? And no, Jesus was clearly NOT teaching a ‘general lesson’ about the kingdom of heaven here.

Oh, but then don’t mind me with all of this ‘conclusive reaching’-for I am just a professional investigator searching for the truth. Perhaps my mind does not function like the majority