Meat in due season

[oldsailor29]

I tried to move this thread off the Townhall forum, and renamed it.

Oldsailor, there is so much information that I would love to write here in this 'blog' but I just don't have the room or time for all of it. The 1335 days is found in Daniel 12:12. This is not years--it has to be actual days for a person could NOT wait 1335 years. Oh, and Noah knowing it was going to rain in 7 days, that is found in Gen. 7:4. As for the 3 and a half days, that is found in Rev. 11:9-11.

Here is something to ponder: The Atonement process! First to have his sin cleansed was the High Priest. Only after a successful cleansing by the High Priest could the rest of the Priest Tribe (the Levi tribe) have their sins cleansed. After that was successful, then the who Kingdom of God-the rest of Israel have their sins cleansed. After this, the sins were placed on the horns of the goat of removal and not killed, but sent out into the wilderness (Other Nations of the World). Please get the whole picture of this, for it is the picture of what happens at the end.

Jesus, our High Priest was sanctified first (John) and the next group to become sanctified are the priest tribe—the 144k. After this, the Kingdom of Heaven (the five wise of the ten bridesmaids—aka the SDA Church) become sanctified. Only after this does the rest of the world come in—and that is the bride, the mass multitude (Rev. 7:9-16) that stands before the throne that come OUT of the time of trouble because of the acts of the saints (Rev. 19:8) (the 144k and the 5 wise). Yes, this is something to seriously ponder!

Oh, that 1335? lol. Thank you for pointing it out. Yes I will ponder it, but all this time interpretation and knowing the time of the advent is still something I consider not very important.

I see where Noah was told to enter the Arc, and that it would start raining in seven days. But the current equivalent of Noah is Jesus. And He is telling us that we should maintain a state of readiness because we do not know when he will return.

The meat in due season are His teachings. We are to eat His flesh and drink His blood, which means study His teachings. And the Holy Spirit will reveal to us the meaning of those teachings. If we continue to study His teachings, and as a result we are always ready for His return, then we are His wise servants who provide meat in due season.

But wait, you said you do know the day and hour. Or did I misread? All I know is the midnight cry, He is coming soon.

[Dr. Rich]

I did not want to mislead anyone here, NO I do not know the absolute day or the hour of the coming in the clouds. Pehaps the time for knowing that is yet to come.

[Musicman1228]

Dear Oldsailor29,

Good point about Noah knowing the time within a specified time frame, in this case 7 days. Yet from my study I see the Faithful and Wise Servant as the end time 'Noah' rather than Jesus because right now Jesus knows exactly when He is going to return, Noah didn't. Matt.24:45-51 speaks of a person that Jesus Christ designated as Faithful and Wise who is feeding his fellow servants food at the proper time. From the context (there is that pesky word again) this appears to be an individual that has information that he gives to his fellow servant (in the household of God-Kingdom of Heaven). We are not told what this information is except by context, which is talking about the end of time. Could this 'food at the proper time' be about the timing of the end? Could this be the info that will be in the 'midnight cry' that wakes up the 10 sleeping bridesmaids?

Something to think about.

[oldsailor29]

Dear Oldsailor29,

Good point about Noah knowing the time within a specified time frame, in this case 7 days. Yet from my study I see the Faithful and Wise Servant as the end time 'Noah' rather than Jesus because right now Jesus knows exactly when He is going to return, Noah didn't. Matt.24:45-51 speaks of a person that Jesus Christ designated as Faithful and Wise who is feeding his fellow servants food at the proper time. From the context (there is that pesky word again) this appears to be an individual that has information that he gives to his fellow servant (in the household of God-Kingdom of Heaven). We are not told what this information is except by context, which is talking about the end of time. Could this 'food at the proper time' be about the timing of the end? Could this be the info that will be in the 'midnight cry' that wakes up the 10 sleeping bridesmaids?

Something to think about.

Well, I think we have both agreed that Noah knew when it was going to start raining in advance. And since Jesus/God is the only one who knows the specific date and hour of His return, I think He looks more analogous to Noah than anyone. I also think the faithful and wise servant referred to in Matthew 24, is not just one person, but a classification of people who continue to teach the teachings of Jesus through the long period of waiting, thereby maintaining their houses in a state of readiness. I think Jesus wants all of us to be faithful and wise servants.

[Musicman1228]

Dear Oldsailor,

Here is where we disagree on method if not application. You choose to see the Faithful and Wise servant as a 'classification of people" and I choose to take what Jesus said exactly as He said it. For me he did not qualify his description via context as more than I person. I believe that it is a single individual that is doing what God has called him (or her) to do when the Master returns; that is, teaching the truth to the people that God has called to him to teach. Teach what? Apparently when the Master is to come.

And you are (again) correct when you say that "Jesus/God is the only one who knows the specific date and hour of His return". When I look at Matt.24:36 on the surface I can see why most of Christianity believes that not only does no one know but know one will ever know when Jesus is to return until He actually shows up. That is what it appears to say. Yet that is because of a misunderstanding as to what the word 'knows' actually means in Greek. According to a paper written by James White entitled 'Matt.24' the word "knows" means "to make known". So if you substitute that phrase for the single word the text takes on a whole different meaning:

“But concerning that day and hour no one makes known, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. Matt.24:36.

This would seem to mean that the only being that will make know the time of the return of Jesus Christ is the Father. Then we look at the first three verses of Revelation we find out that the purpose of Revelation is to reveal to the Bondservants what the Father has revealed to Jesus; that is the exact time of His coming.

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. Rev.1:1-3.

It seems evident to me that the emphasis on knowing the time and timing of the events of the end is so important that God reveals it to His son, who reveals it to His angel, who gives it to John, who then gives it to the Bondservants of Jesus Christ. When? At the time of the end. So to say that it is impossible to know when Jesus will return only means that we don't understand how important that information is for the bondservants to have in order to prepare the bridesmaids so that they can prepare the bride (Matt.25:1-13).

So one of the ways that we will know that we are living in the time of the end is when the Faithful and Wise Servant reveals the timing of the end to his fellow bondservants. I don't know for sure that this is the way it will be but it does make sense to me. God will reveal the time of His coming (like a thief?) when it is the right time. It could also be that I am so looking forward to seeing Jesus face to face that I am reading more into this than is actually there. I hope not, but one never knows.

[Dr. Rich]

Have you carefully read verse 45 of chapter 24 Oldsailor? It specifically says that there is only one that is left in charge of all of the servants. I would agree, but the wording is specific in that this one who is left in charge will be feeding THE FELLOW servants..

What this verse does not say is that this ONE servant in charge of all of the other servants will be feeding all of the host/guests of the house of the Master. The reason this must be only one is so that they get all the food from the same source. The host (or guests) is the bride or the multitude standing before the throne in Revelation 7:9-14.

Just because tridition has this being many people does not change what is written.

[oldsailor29]

HAPPY SABBATH

In His sermons, Jesus spoke of several master/slave scenarios in which the master was away and would return. Any of the servants who did as they were supposed to do were rewarded, and the servants who didn't do what they were supposed to do were punished. None of these servants knew when the master was going to return.

When two are working in the field, and when two are grinding, and one is taken and the other left behind, neither of them knew when it was going to happen. If their supervisor had known, then he would have informed all who were in his charge so that no one would be left behind, and his house would not have been broken up. But he didn't know. And that's the way it will be.

So the thing to do is to be ready for His coming all the time, and endure in readiness. Fill our lamps with oil. That is, pray for the Holy Spirit in full measure. And fill ourselves with the flesh and blood of Jesus, our meat in due season. That is, study and learn the teachings of Jesus. That way we can be ready when He comes. And we need to do this because we do not know the day nor the hour when He will come.

If we know exactly when Jesus will return, then we could wait until the day before and get ready then. But the message of Matthew 24 is that we should get ready now and stay ready, because we do not know and will not know when Jesus will return until it happens.

The bridegroom cometh. That is the midnight cry, and that was the message of 1844. We cannot deny this message, and stay on the path to the holy city. The midnight cry illuminates our path from behind, and Jesus is leading us and illuminating our path ahead. Our meat in due season is that which we learn as we follow Jesus.

[Dr. Rich]

It is impossible for a bride to always be and stay ready for the wedding. Ask around and see how many brides had to do this? Did you tell your bride; "Just be ready all the time because you do not know when the wedding is going to be? I think not! Well, neither will the Bride Groom. Take some time and think about this--don't just believe like people have in the past! Open your mind, for a mind is like a parachute--it is deadly if it remains closed!

I have written about what is going to happen in the near future on the coming like a thief vs coming in the clouds. So far, no one has poked a hole in this theory. My rules in the attempt to do this is to only use the words of Jesus given to the eyewitnesses.

If you will re-read the account on the ten maids, you will see that Jesus is already here on this earth when the cry went out to wake up at midnight. Therefore the idea the midnight cry went out in 1844 is a total lie. It also must be remembered that NO ONE who is dead today knew the real truth regarding prophecy--it was one of the rules for understanding prophecy (Dan. 12:10)

[wayfinder]

Strong's Number:2525 kaqistemi/ transliteration-Kathistemi

a.to set one over a thing (in charge of it)

b.to appoint one to administer an office

Matthew 24:45,46

"Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?

"Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

In ancient times the King's servants were his administrators, each had an appointed responsibility. One servant had the title "Head of the House", his responsibility was great in every respect. Not only was he responsible for the other servants, but he would act on behalf of the king when the king was away. This servant was to know the will of the king and act in full accord with the king's will. This is why the Son of God uses this context, He has placed a servant over His household to make sure that His house is in order and the kingdom is prepared for the return of their King. There is no break down in this context from Matthew 24:42-51 and 25:1-13. The "Head of the House" is completely responsible for everything and preparation for the return of the King is his highest priority, see the result if he quits (verses 48-51). It is interesting to note the emphasis on knowing the day and hour in the account of the servants.

[oldsailor29]

Strong's Number:2525 kaqistemi/ transliteration-Kathistemi

a.to set one over a thing (in charge of it)

b.to appoint one to administer an office

Matthew 24:45,46

"Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?

"Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.

In ancient times the King's servants were his administrators, each had an appointed responsibility. One servant had the title "Head of the House", his responsibility was great in every respect. Not only was he responsible for the other servants, but he would act on behalf of the king when the king was away. This servant was to know the will of the king and act in full accord with the king's will. This is why the Son of God uses this context, He has placed a servant over His household to make sure that His house is in order and the kingdom is prepared for the return of their King. There is no break down in this context from Matthew 24:42-51 and 25:1-13. The "Head of the House" is completely responsible for everything and preparation for the return of the King is his highest priority, see the result if he quits (verses 48-51). It is interesting to note the emphasis on knowing the day and hour in the account of the servants.

I would say that analogous to the head of a house is the local pastor. Or perhaps the leader of a worldwide Christian organization which is preaching the soon return of Jesus.

But first, one must believe Jesus is God in the flesh.    This is basic to Christianity.    That bit of meat is overdue to those who do not see it.    It is the first course of meat in due season, and prerequisite to further dining.    Can you accept this first bite?

Perhaps you already have accepted that Jesus is God in the flesh. I just wanted to know.

[Musicman1228]

Oldsailor,

But at midnight there was a shout, 'Look, the bridegroom is here! Come out to meet him.' Matt. 25:6.

The midnight cry is not that the Bridegroom is coming soon, as is the common interpretation. The midnight cry is that the Bridegroom IS HERE, that He has already come, so come out to meet Him. This is at midnight when He comes like a thief, when no one sees Him except the Faithful and Wise Servant and his fellow servants. The 10 bridesmaids are sound asleep when the Bridegroom showed up. This CANNOT be at the coming in the clouds when every eye will see Him.

[oldsailor29]

There are some interpretation problems here, but first things first. Is Jesus God in the flesh?

[Dr. Rich]

Yes, of course--that goes without saying. But to even think that this person would be the local pastor or a leader of a worlwide Christian organization would go against what happend when Jesus was here. He did not choose any teacher or preacher--because they were too immersed in flawed doctrine. Same goes for the this ONE person.

[oldsailor29]

There are some interpretation problems here, but first things first. Is Jesus God in the flesh?

[wayfinder]

I absolutly believe that Jesus is God and He came down from heaven and was born flesh and blood and was human and continued to be God now the Son of God. As I understand it we, when we are born of the Holy spirit will be like Him, we will not be God but we will have a holy spiritual body, much like the angels.

Now, as far as the faithful and sensible bondservant. If you check the history of the title "Head of the House" you will see that it was given to only one individual. This title could be compared to the vice president or prime minister. At the time of the exodus from Egypt, Moses would be the "Head of the House", from there the organization was divided up into elders and tribes etc. You can imagine if there was more than one "Head of the House" the result of the organization would be a compromise of the desires of all the leaders. The Son of God is the King and there is no other, but it is clear that the preparation of His household and His kingdom is the ultimate responsibility of the trustworthy and sensible bondservant (Matthew 24:42-51). If we are living in the last generation on earth the one that will see the return of the King, he or she must be around somewhere.

[Dr. Rich]

Oldsailor, From what I have learned, the 'sellers of oil' would be all of the pastors and teachers that have come out of the 'punch press' style of teaching the same old 'stuff' and now called tradition or doctrine or the 28 'dogmas' of the SDA GC elite. And to think the membership voted them in is totally insane---about as insane as thinking that ‘We The People’ have voted in the President of the U.S..

But back to the ‘sellers of oil’. When the 5 foolish maids finally do get this oil and get back to where the wedding feast is taking place, please tell my why they are not let in if all they needed was grace from the Groom? What about righteousness by faith?

Matthew 7:21-23 speaks about this issue. “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who DOES the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons…and in Your name perform many miracles? And then I will declare to them “I never knew you—depart from Me, you who practice LAWLESSNESS!” (Yes-lawlessness)

And then I can just about hear them say this too: “But we had faith in your name and we believed all of the New Testament was the word of God”, and with fists they will pound on the door demanding they be let in saying “ How dare you keep us out of the wedding feast! Were not we also among the 10 bridesmaids (kingdom of heaven)? Didn’t we become righteous because of the blood of Jesus. Haven’t you ever heard of Righteousness by Faith?”

It is no wonder these people will be weeping and gnash their teeth!

[oldsailor29]

Neither the wise nor foolish virgins knew the day nor hour in which the bridegroom would come. So knowing the day or hour is not important. Being ready is important. All ten virgins started out with the same amount of oil, but the oil of the wise virgins was from Jesus, while the oil of the foolish virgins was from Moses. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the light." He said the wise build on the rock.(Himself) And the foolish build upon the sand.(Moses) What happens during the waiting period is what shows the difference. The oil from Jesus lasts forever. At some point, the oil from Moses no longer provides light. It is just like the ever narrowing road in EGWs vision in ch xxx of "Life Sketches." The only way to stay out of the abyss is total dependence in our faith. By faith we must accept Jesus and His teachings, then we will be on the straight and narrow road, following Jesus, from an earlier vision in the same book, ch vii.

Meat in due season is the body and blood of Jesus.

[Dr. Rich]

LOL--Ok Oldsailor, you certainaly got me laughing again. I must be missing something here because none of my bibles give me this information. Did Jesus really say everything you wrote in this prophecy?

As for me, I will stick to the words of Jesus. But I did enjoy your story even if there is/was no way to verify it. Does your bible also tell us why they trimmed their lamps? Could this mean that they had to get rid of all of the 'stuff' they thought was the truth (like righteousness by faith) in order to accept new truth given to them by the 144k?

I used to have oil lamps in my cabin and had to keep trimming them to make it bright so I could see. But trimming them without oil would make them go out completely. (For those of you who don't know what 'trimming' means--it is cutting off the dead or burnt part of the wick).

[oldsailor29]

So Dr. Rich, you are denying righteousness by faith? I had not thought anyone who is carrying messages from God would ever do that. I'll add that stipulation to my list of "basic tests of truth." You may get a chuckle out of these as well.

Basic Tests of Truth

If someone disagrees with my "basics," I have to disregard them. And on my short list of basic truths are:

1. Don't deny that Jesus was, is, and will be always the one God who causes to be, the one infinite non-derived entity with no beginning and no end.

2. Love God first, and love your neighbor, and know who your neighbor is.(according to the parable of the good Samaritan, your neighbor is the one who will help you when you need it. And there is a difference in being a neighbor and having a neighbor.)

3. Don't deny the 7th day sabbath.

4. Don't deny the "midnight cry" in 1844.

5. Don't deny the investigative judgment.

6. Don't deny the day = year time principle. (day also = millennium, century, 40 years, season, month, week, and of course day.)

7. Don't deny the trinity doctrine. (also don't limit God's revelation to a trinity. He is capable of revealing Himself in an unlimited number of ways and beings)

8. Don't deny Ellen White was a messenger of God.

9. Don't run ahead of God. Patiently wait for God to open the door for you.

10. Be satisfied with your job as that which the Lord has given you to do for a soul winning mission, and don't try to do that which He has not given.

11. Don’t deny righteousness by faith.

[Musicman1228]

Oldsailor,

If those are your own personal tests for truth and not God's tests then you have every right to them. What I hear you saying is that anyone that does not agree that what you have said is THE test of truth not only can't be a Christian but should not be an Adventist.

[John317]

What does the Seventh-day Adventist Church believe? What is a Seventh-day Adventist?

[Gail]

What does the Seventh-day Adventist Church believe? What is a Seventh-day Adventist?

Good questions!

[Dr. Rich]

Oldsailor, well then, since my test is a simple one, that being the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses, then I would have to repeat what Jesus said about salvation, sanctification and righteousness. I have found that this test is so simple that there can't be any confusion. I find that the only people that argue with me on this test are those who have not studied them. This leaves me a happy camper.

Now, I can't say that this test always left me a happy camper for I too had a numbered test for people--in the not so distant past. Using the new test caused me much grief and pain and downright anger upon those who 'helped' me build my numbered test. But as time passes, so to have I a better understanding of how to be more like my hero, Jesus Christ.

[Dr. Rich]

To answer John317's question, Seventh Day Adventists keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus. (Rev. 12:17) Right?

[oldsailor29]

Oldsailor,

If those are your own personal tests for truth and not God's tests then you have every right to them. What I hear you saying is that anyone that does not agree that what you have said is THE test of truth not only can't be a Christian but should not be an Adventist.

I said neither. Someone who is carrying truth would not try to put words in my mouth.