Meat in due season

[Musicman1228]

Oldsailor,

Whether you meant to say that or not it is what I heard. If I misinterpreted what you said then I am sincerely sorry. Please tell me again what you meant by 'test for truth.' Thanks.

[oldsailor29]

Oldsailor,

Whether you meant to say that or not it is what I heard. If I misinterpreted what you said then I am sincerely sorry. Please tell me again what you meant by 'test for truth.' Thanks.

Apology accepted Musicman.

I have developed my test of truth in order to determine the reliability of the beliefs posted by others. I think everyone should be Christians, and my tests of reliability cuts off a lot of SDAs, so I wouldn't call it an SDA test either. My test goes beyond both Christianity and SDA church.

SDAs have their own tests of fellowship. I'm not overly concerned with them.

To be Christian, one must believe Jesus is God, underived, no beginning and no end, one and the same with the one infinite God who stands outside of time and space and creates all that is. Very simply, this belief is what it means to be a Christian.

I once had an acquaintance who was a very brilliant professor of religion. His specialties included Old Testament exegesis, and Ellen White. He successfully defended Ellen White against the attacks of Walter Rea, in the early eighties. Later he decided he was a prophet of God, and he started denying the seventh day sabbath and started denying the prophetic ministry of Ellen White. Well, that was it. I could no longer rely on his judgment of truth and error.

Same is true of my other tests. Deny righteousness by faith, and bzzzz, no light. Deny midnight cry in 1844, and bzzzzz, no light. Deny Jesus is God in the flesh with no beginning and no end, and bzzzzzzzz, no light. And there are other clues as to who cannot be relied upon. For example, if someone starts preaching dispensationalism, bzzzzzzz, no light. Of course it helps to be able to recognize false doctrines like that one. That ability would have saved some people from Waco. It would also save some from being deceived into denying the investigative judgment. Is that on my list? I forget. Deny investigative judgment, bzzzzzzzz, no light.

I'm not claiming that I cannot be deceived. That would be a very dangerous claim. But if I have a question about something, I always pray about it, and the Lord always shines the light of truth upon the path.

[John317]

Deny righteousness by faith, and bzzzz, no light. Deny midnight cry in 1844, and bzzzzz, no light. Deny Jesus is God in the flesh with no beginning and no end, and bzzzzzzzz, no light. And there are other clues as to who cannot be relied upon. For example, if someone starts preaching dispensationalism, bzzzzzzz, no light. Of course it helps to be able to recognize false doctrines like that one. That ability would have saved some people from Waco. It would also save some from being deceived into denying the investigative judgment. Is that on my list? I forget. Deny investigative judgment, bzzzzzzzz, no light.

Agree.

[Musicman1228]

Thanks, Oldsailor, for your candor in how you assess what is light and what isn't. The picture that I see as to how you come to your faith is much clearer now. Yet I will tell you that my view of what is light goes beyond even your strict guidelines for what is truth and what isn't.

I take my guidelines directly from the words of Jesus;

But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.” John 3:21.

According to Jesus it is not sufficient to say that you have light but the proof is in doing what is true. Most Christians say that God give you the light so you can know what is true, but according to Jesus this is backward. This goes right along with the idea that you proposed that, "If I have a question about something, I always pray about it, and the Lord always shines the light of truth upon the path".

Praying about it is good but unless you actually do something to establish the truth in your life you will not come to the light. The doing comes first then the light comes.

By this I mean that when you establish for yourself the parameters that you call truth and you have nothing to verify those parameters against you are just guessing what is true. My baseline comes from the words of Jesus Christ as testified to by His disciples. If all of those things which you (3rd person 'you' not specifically you) have sited as personal factors in determining light cannot be supported by the words of Jesus Christ then they may be light to you but they are not truth, even if you have convinced yourself that they are.

I have looked at all of the things you mentioned multiple times and I agree with some and not others. For instance: Jesus is God in the flesh, yes. Righteousness by grace through faith, no. Investigative judgment, yes with qualifications. Midnight cry in 1844, no (still to come). Daniel and John are true prophets of God, yes. EGW a true prophet of God, no. There are hundreds more, each of which I have made extensive study and based my conclusions on solid empirical evidence irrespective of how I feel about them. I have not arrived at my beliefs by chance or emotion. Of course I don't expect and don't want anyone to blindly agree to any of these things just because I say them.

Now you certainly will not agree with many of the conclusions that I have come upon. This is to be expected because each of us have different perspectives and come from different life experiences. It is obvious that you cannot understand how I could possibly come to the conclusions I have with respect to Paul and EGW. Again, I expect this. My question is; What is the ultimate harm to me if I don't believe the way that you do? According to salvation by grace it doesn't matter if what I believe does not agree with you because what I believe about God doesn't actually matter. The only thing that matters is that I believe on Jesus Christ and I am saved. So let me put your mind at ease; I do believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God in the flesh, who was executed by His Father to pay the penalty for the sins of the Kingdom of Heaven, who rose from the grave under His own power three days and three night after His crucifixion, and who, as our High Priest, now sits at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. Except for a few minor differences I think we can both agree on that.

[TreeOfLife]

Re ”What I Believe about God Doesn't Actually Matter…”

Thanks, Oldsailor, for your candor in how you assess what is light and what isn't. The picture that I see as to how you come to your faith is much clearer now. Yet I will tell you that my view of what is light goes beyond even your strict guidelines for what is truth and what isn't.

I take my guidelines directly from the words of Jesus;

But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.” John 3:21.

According to Jesus it is not sufficient to say that you have light but the proof is in doing what is true. Most Christians say that God give you the light so you can know what is true, but according to Jesus this is backward. This goes right along with the idea that you proposed that, "If I have a question about something, I always pray about it, and the Lord always shines the light of truth upon the path".

Praying about it is good but unless you actually do something to establish the truth in your life you will not come to the light. The doing comes first then the light comes.

By this I mean that when you establish for yourself the parameters that you call truth and you have nothing to verify those parameters against you are just guessing what is true. My baseline comes from the words of Jesus Christ as testified to by His disciples. If all of those things which you (3rd person 'you' not specifically you) have sited as personal factors in determining light cannot be supported by the words of Jesus Christ then they may be light to you but they are not truth, even if you have convinced yourself that they are.

I have looked at all of the things you mentioned multiple times and I agree with some and not others. For instance: Jesus is God in the flesh, yes. Righteousness by grace through faith, no. Investigative judgment, yes with qualifications. Midnight cry in 1844, no (still to come). Daniel and John are true prophets of God, yes. EGW a true prophet of God, no. There are hundreds more, each of which I have made extensive study and based my conclusions on solid empirical evidence irrespective of how I feel about them. I have not arrived at my beliefs by chance or emotion. Of course I don't expect and don't want anyone to blindly agree to any of these things just because I say them.

Now you certainly will not agree with many of the conclusions that I have come upon. This is to be expected because each of us have different perspectives and come from different life experiences. It is obvious that you cannot understand how I could possibly come to the conclusions I have with respect to Paul and EGW. Again, I expect this. My question is; What is the ultimate harm to me if I don't believe the way that you do? According to salvation by grace it doesn't matter if what I believe does not agree with you because what I believe about God doesn't actually matter. The only thing that matters is that I believe on Jesus Christ and I am saved. So let me put your mind at ease; I do believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God in the flesh, who was executed by His Father to pay the penalty for the sins of the Kingdom of Heaven, who rose from the grave under His own power three days and three night after His crucifixion, and who, as our High Priest, now sits at the right hand of the Father in Heaven. Except for a few minor differences I think we can both agree on that.

[TreeOfLife]

Who Executed Jesus…?

I do believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God… who was executed by His Father...

[Dr. Rich]

Great post Tree of Life! But back to the heading of this thread--"Meat in due season". What does this mean? Other versions of the bible say "food at the proper time".

1) What does "meat" or "food" mean?

2) What does "in due season" or "proper time" mean?

3) What does "Head of Household" mean?

4) What does "rest of the servants" mean?

To me, the answers to these questions are very important to understand this prophecy. Thanks.

Blessings, (SDA)

[Musicman1228]

I concur with Dr. Rich-great post Treeoflife.

I understand that "Meet in due season" does in fact mean "food at the proper time" as seen context in Matt. 24:42-51. And because of this the answer to the question you proposed as to "who executed Jesus Christ? His Father or the father of Lies?" matters a great deal. So too do all of the new answers to old questions that have here-to-fore been thought of as already solid truth.

Many have said that "New Light" will never change "Old Light". That everything that has come before is what we must build our faith upon, lest we be tested beyond that which we are able to bear. Yet testing is just what God does to establish the righteous in Truth, testing which He has set up for that very purpose:

Oh, let the evil of the wicked come to an end, and may you establish the righteous— you who test the minds and hearts, O righteous God! Psalms 7:9.

So this "Meat in due season" or "food at the proper time" will be that which tests the hearts and minds of those that are already convinced that they do not need more truth, or if they do then the new truth that is shown to them will not conflict with the old truth with which they are already comfortable.

Those that are tested this way do not like it because it challenges their present understanding. This I can personally understand because I have been there.

For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing (new), not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. Rev.3:17.

It is one thing to be at that place where you are sure you 'know it all', and quite another stay in that place when you are given the opportunity to learn something new that will bring you from the condition of Rev.3:17 to the place where you are living in the light of truth.

Many on this forum do not like it when I (and others) question the beliefs held by the community. They would seek to limit our exposure to the forum in favor of tradition. Yet my questioning (and that of others) is the fire that God will use to burn away the impurities and leave pure metal, the kind that can withstand the fiery darts of Satan.

Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand. Dan.12:10.

If your faith cannot take this kind of questioning then maybe you need a new faith. Or maybe you need to get rid of your faith altogether in favor or the same kind of trust that Jesus Christ had for His Father; trust that is built on the solid rock of Truth, not the shifting sand of faith. (Matt.7:24-27)

I do not pretend to have all the answers. But a well asked and answered question is worth much in the process of the discovery of the Way, the Truth, and the Life, which is Jesus Christ.

[TreeOfLife]

From Glory to Glory…

I concur with Dr. Rich-great post Treeoflife.

I understand that "Meet in due season" does in fact mean "food at the proper time" as seen context in Matt. 24:42-51. And because of this the answer to the question you proposed as to "who executed Jesus Christ? His Father or the father of Lies?" matters a great deal. So too do all of the new answers to old questions that have here-to-fore been thought of as already solid truth.

Many have said that "New Light" will never change "Old Light". That everything that has come before is what we must build our faith upon, lest we be tested beyond that which we are able to bear. Yet testing is just what God does to establish the righteous in Truth, testing which He has set up for that very purpose:

Oh, let the evil of the wicked come to an end, and may you establish the righteous— you who test the minds and hearts, O righteous God! Psalms 7:9.

So this "Meat in due season" or "food at the proper time" will be that which tests the hearts and minds of those that are already convinced that they do not need more truth, or if they do then the new truth that is shown to them will not conflict with the old truth with which they are already comfortable.

Those that are tested this way do not like it because it challenges their present understanding. This I can personally understand because I have been there.

For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing (new), not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. Rev.3:17.

It is one thing to be at that place where you are sure you 'know it all', and quite another stay in that place when you are given the opportunity to learn something new that will bring you from the condition of Rev.3:17 to the place where you are living in the light of truth.

Many on this forum do not like it when I (and others) question the beliefs held by the community. They would seek to limit our exposure to the forum in favor of tradition. Yet my questioning (and that of others) is the fire that God will use to burn away the impurities and leave pure metal, the kind that can withstand the fiery darts of Satan.

Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand. Dan.12:10.

If your faith cannot take this kind of questioning then maybe you need a new faith. Or maybe you need to get rid of your faith altogether in favor or the same kind of trust that Jesus Christ had for His Father; trust that is built on the solid rock of Truth, not the shifting sand of faith. (Matt.7:24-27)

I do not pretend to have all the answers. But a well asked and answered question is worth much in the process of the discovery of the Way, the Truth, and the Life, which is Jesus Christ.

[John317]

Many have said that "New Light" will never change "Old Light". That everything that has come before is what we must build our faith upon, lest we be tested beyond that which we are able to bear. Yet testing is just what God does to establish the righteous in Truth, testing which He has set up for that very purpose:

We can have new understanding of things that are true, but God will never send "light" that contradicts or does away with the light that He sent previously.

For instance, God will never send messages or messengers that will teach against what we know to be the foundational pillars of our faith:

1) The Seventh day Sabbath.

2) The Second Advent of Christ.

3) The non-immortality of the wicked.

4) The Sanctuary in Heaven

5) Baptism and the Lord's Supper

6) The state of the dead.

6) The Third Angels Message.

7) Creation

8) The perpetuity of the law of God

[TreeOfLife]

Whose Understanding of “the Foundational Pillars of Our Faith” Needs More Light?

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

Many have said that "New Light" will never change "Old Light". That everything that has come before is what we must build our faith upon, lest we be tested beyond that which we are able to bear. Yet testing is just what God does to establish the righteous in Truth, testing which He has set up for that very purpose:

We can have new understanding of things that are true, but God will never send "light" that contradicts or does away with the light that He sent previously.

For instance, God will never send messages or messengers that will teach against what we know to be the foundational pillars of our faith:

1) The Seventh day Sabbath.

2) The Second Advent of Christ.

3) The non-immortality of the wicked.

4) The Sanctuary in Heaven

5) Baptism and the Lord's Supper

6) The state of the dead.

6) The Third Angels Message.

7) Creation

8) The perpetuity of the law of God

Dear John 3:17,

Yes, I agree. So far as each of your 9 listed titles of “the foundational pillars of our faith” I see nothing contrary to “what we know to be…” true…

Yet, as you say, “We can have new understanding of things that are true…,” even, even especially, re said “foundational pillars of our faith.” Why especially re those?

• The answer is plain and simple:

  Because “the foundational pillars of our faith” are so all important and because we have yet a ways to walk on the Way before the Kingdom of God is being fully realized among us, or don’t you see that?

I have little doubt but that if our Seventh-day Adventist understanding of each of those “foundational pillars of our faith” was already fully perfected, then we’d all be in heaven already, that is, we would all have seen the Second Coming and the Kingdom of God would be a reality for each and all among us even here and now.

Do you disagree?

Shalom,

Tree of Life ©