I'm confused about one aspect of Jesus crucifixion

[True-believer]

When Jesus died on Good Friday, His body was laid in a tomb, but His Spirit/Soul went to Hell to defeat Satan and to take all the saints who died before Him up to heaven, and then on the third day Jesus rose from the dead....????

Or did Jesus only slept for those three days, in other words, He died on Friday, He rested on the Sabbath, and He rose again on the first day of the week to give us a look at the working week.

the working week is first day sunday--to the sixth day Friday, and we rest from our work on the seventh day Saturday--Sabbath----Just like Jesus did in the tomb--He rested--and then began work again on the first day by raising to life.

What are your Biblical Thoughts on this topic???

[Musicman1228]

Think about this and then tell me what you think;

But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matt.12:39-40.

I know that we have all been taught from short pants that Jesus was crucified on Good Friday and resurrected on Easter (Ishtar?) Sunday morning. So what religious organization has a vested interest in getting the world to worship on Sunday (with all the power that engenders) thereby "seeking to change times and laws"? Why, of course it is our friends of the Roman Catholic church. Satan hates the Sabbath day (7th) and has figured out the perfect plan to get the world that calls themselves "Christian" to worship God on another day, thereby redirecting that worship to himself.

So what Satan did was get people to believe that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday morning. He did this in two ways; he had translators (Catholic clergy for the most part) change the translations about this just a little to imply a Sunday morning resurrection, and; he promoted the idea in the Catholic church that 'any part of three days fulfilled the requirement of the law proving death.

It has worked beautifully, hasn't it? 99% of the Christian church today, both Catholic and Protestant, worship on Sunday as the legitimate 'day of worship' because they are convinced that Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday morning.

Now look at the verse from Matthew; It says 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. If we begin counting from Friday night at sundown and count a night, a day (Saturday), a night, a day (Sunday), a night, a day (Monday) we come to an entirely different outcome from what is commonly held to be true. If what Jesus said in Matt.12 is true (and it is because Jesus does not lie) then if you count 3 days and 3 nights from Friday the resurrection MUST have taken place on Monday evening before sunset (which accounts for a full day), NOT SUNDAY.

What is going on here?

To find out in detail here is a link to an interesting paper that explains what really happened using not only Scripture but U.S Naval Observatory data to prove beyond a doubt that Jesus Christ was resurrected on Sabbath just before sunset and not on Sunday morning. If Jesus Christ was resurrected on Sabbath that would tend to confirm the 7th-day Sabbath as the day that should be honored and not Sunday, wouldn't it?

The Saturday Resurrection of Jesus

[BobRyan]

Luke says that week-day-one (Sunday) was "the third day" since the trial of Christ.

Given that explicit statement - you have to have a Friday crucifixion.

in Christ,

Bob

[Kevin H]

Musicman1228: you are using too much 20th century western thought that you are reading back into a first century eastern context.

Now in early church tradition, and modern scholarship is saying that the early tradition is probably correct, the last supper was on Tuesday night, Jesus arrested late that night/early Wednesday morning, an inquirey with Caiphias, Peter denied Jesus and sees Jesus as he is taken to the prision in Caiphisis' house where to make it a legal trial (OUR modern Thursday night tradition for the last supper has inspired many sermons on how it was an illegal trial)Jesus would have been kept in the cell over Wednesday and late Thursday and through Thursday night the other inquires and trials and on the cross Friday morning, in the tomb Friday afternoon before Sabbath, ancient eastern cyclic inclusion time would have Jesus resting from Friday afternoon until early Sunday morning at the time of the feasts of the first fruits, which as I understand the Old Testament Feasts always occured early on the Sunday morning in the week after Passover.

As for True-believer's question, the part "His body was laid in a tomb, but His Spirit/Soul went to Hell to defeat Satan and to take all the saints who died before Him up to heaven, and then on the third day Jesus rose from the dead....????" My first question is where did you get this view? This seems odd or at least speculation from someone, it does not sound very Biblical. Now the Bible does talk about graves opening when Jesus died and some of the saints of the past raising and there is a hint that they probably had gone to heaven when Jesus assended, but their job was to help spread the gospel while the disciples were hiding. And there is the text about Jesus going to sheol and preaching, but for that we need to sit down with a concordance and look up all the texts about Sheol. Basically Sheol is a place to sleep, to be weak, now there are some texts that might sound like some self examination, and missing what they can do in the body, but these seem more like a poeic discription and again the focus is on sleeping and being too weak to do anything. Now one Old Testament Theam is that when a great and powerful king died the shades of Sheol mock the king saying that you have become as weak and tired as the rest of us, and no matter how great or powerful that king was in life, now in death he's no threat, only weak and sleeping, unable to do anything physical. Again these are poeic statements where the theam is the dead sleeping. I think that the text that has Jesus going to Sheol and preaching is just to show a contrast with all these Old Testament texts where a great king dies and can no longer do anything physical, by showing that Jesus still had power over death, and instead of picturing the shades of Sheol mocking Jesus for being as weak as they are, that Jesus was able to not be weak but picturing Jesus doing something very physical, and what was it Jesus tended to do that was physical? Preach. So again I think this is a poetic passage who's purose was to show that Jesus was not like those Old Testament Kings who were weak and helpless in death, but in poetry telling us that Jesus had power over death.

But without really understanding Sheol, and seeing the theam of Sheol in the Old Testament, people, especially people who think that the dead are very much alive and you either go to heaven or hell after death, read this text, rips it from the context and the theam and instead of having Jesus in a good Old Testament Sheol, they they litterally have Jesus going to what they believe hell to be and doing all kinds of crazy things that goes way beyond the text and it's context.

Jesus faught and defeted Satan at his death, not some afterdeath battle in hell. Jesus rested after his victory, then got up at the feasts of first fruits on early in the morning on the first day of the week to let the disciples know what the universe was rejoicing about on that Sabbath.

[Dr. Rich]

Kevin H, I tend to agree with you to the most part, but as for the right day Jesus' death took place, I think it was Wed. and then He rose on Sabbath just before sundown. And again, the story about the Rich man and Lazarus comes to us by Luke who also gives us other stories such as Prodical Son among others that we can't confirm from Matthew, Mark or John. Therefore, the question begs, can we trust Luke? Since he was not a Jew nor a disciple, but a follower of Paul, I seriously doubt if it would be a good thing to rely upon anything from Luke.

[Richard Holbrook]

Quote:

, but as for the right day Jesus' death took place, I think it was Wed. and then He rose on Sabbath just before sundown.

The Bible says he rose on the 1st day not the 7th.

Mar 16:9 Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.

[Dr. Rich]

Thanks dgrimm, but I already know what the gospels state. I have an extensive study on all of this and here is the thing that one must understand. Jesus did not lie. He said the ONLY sign was for Him to be in the ground 3--24 hour days--period! I don't care how one slices or dices this, but that just does not cut it with what the RCC gave us. Take this for instance--IF the women left Jesus in the grave on Friday evening and then went to the tomb before sunup on Sunday when Jesus had already risen, when did they have time to buy spices? What really happend, is that Jesus was placed in the grave just before sundown on the Passover Sabbath which was on Wed. evening. The Passover Sabbath was the next day-Thursday. Friday was the day the women bought the spices. RIGHT after sundown on Sat. the women went to the grave while it was dark. They found that Jesus had already risen.

Please note that there was also a preparation day the day before the Sabbath called Passover. (Or did you forget this?) This culminated with a feast to get rid of all of the stuff you couldn't have in the house for Passover. The meal that Jesus had with the 12 disciples was not the Passover meal even though the gospels have Jesus asking the disciples to find a place for them to have this meal.

Please note that I was not there, but I do believe that Jesus was in the ground for three, 24 hour days. You can believe what you want.

One must remember that the people that gave us our present New Testament were bias upon Jesus rising on Sunday and dying on Friday. This is why there are many things wrong with every book of the New Testament except for Revelation--because no one understood it to change anything.

[Richard Holbrook]

It says he rose ON the third day. Dosn't say anything about 3/24s

[Richard Holbrook]

Where do you come up with this...stuff

[Musicman1228]

Instead of rebutting each point I urge you to go to the link that I provided and read the article in which all is explained. I have also included a link to the U.S.Naval Observatory Data which shows the day and date of Passover in 30 C.E.

AS to using 20th century methods, I certainly hope I'm using 21st century thought. Did not Jesus KNOW that time would last until now, and take that into account when He spoke the prophecies of the end of time to His own disciples? If you must be an expert in the thought processes of ancient Israel then all of us in big trouble as it would be impossible to learn what you need to know on your own, we would constantly be in need of 'experts'. If this is the case then Jesus lied when He said that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth, and we know that is not the case.

One point for dgrimm60;

Passover did not always occur on the preparation day for a 7th-day Sabbath. In this case in 30 C.E. Passover did occur on Wednesday, which was the preparation day for the Feast of Unleavened Bread which was considered a festival Sabbath. The Sabbath Resurrection of Jesus

U.S. Naval Observatory Data

[Richard Holbrook]

Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

I'll take scripture over Dennis Nuefeld every time.

[phkrause]

Absolutely Rich4truth, in the Jewish concept 3 days doesn't mean 3 24 hour periods. Obviously only one of those days would be a 24 hour period but the other 2 could mean only a few minutes.

pk

[Richard Holbrook]

yep

[Musicman1228]

Then why did Jesus say "3 days AND 3 nights in the heart of the earth" if He didn't meant just that? Remember, in Jewish tradition you were not considered completely dead until after 3 whole days were over. This is why Jesus waited until Lazarus had been dead three days before He raised him from the dead. This is the reason that the Sanhedrin went active in plotting to kill Jesus after the Lazarus incident; there was no doubt that Lazarus was really dead and the Jesus had really raised him up. At that point the Sanhedrin KNEW beyond doubt that Jesus WAS the Son of God, and that if they left things the way they were then Jesus would become king of the Jews, and they would be out of power. This they could not countenance.

So the idea that any part of 3 days just doesn't fly. What I want to know is why SDA's do not rush to embrace the idea that Jesus was raised on Sabbath? It seem like a natural follow-on and confirmation Creation and the 4th Commandment.

[Musicman1228]

Rich4truth,

Good, I'm glad you will take Scripture over me. Just make sure that the Scripture is really saying what the original meaning was and not what the transcribers and and translators wanted you to see. It is evident that you did not read what I wrote on the web site. At least have the courtesy to do that before you make a comment.

Another question: When does the first day of the week begin in the Jewish and SDA tradition?

[wayfinder]

Mark 16:1

When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.

Luke 23:54-56 It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

These two texts appear to contradict each other. Did the women buy the spices after the Sabbath or did they buy them before the Sabbath? The answer is easy, there were two Sabbaths. The Feast of Unleavened Bread was a feast Sabbath, this was on Thursday in 30 CE. Then there was the seventh-day Sabbath. The two Sabbaths were separated by Friday which was not a Sabbath. Mark says the women waited until the feast day Sabbath was over... and Luke says they bought the spices on the day before the seventh day Sabbath. Both accounts have them purchasing and preparing the spices on Friday the day in between the two Sabbaths. Of course that would mean that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday!

[Richard Holbrook]

Rich4truth,

Good, I'm glad you will take Scripture over me.

Is that you Dennis? You look different than the guy I thought I was talking to.

[Musicman1228]

It's me.

[Richard Holbrook]

Let me guess. Richard H. is Dr. Rich

[Richard Holbrook]

I thought he was teaching you, but I see it's the other way around.

[Richard Holbrook]

I'm reading about the 144,000

[LifeHiscost]

I already know what the gospels state.

He said the ONLY sign was for Him to be in the ground 3--24 hour days--period!

There is information available pointing out that in the Jewish religious economy, any part of a day spent could be considered as

a day when describing an event. This would allow for Jesus to have died Friday before sundown, one day, His body to have been taken to the tomb to rest over the Sabbath, the second day, and to have been resurrected well into the the first day of the week, the third day.

Considering that God's creation days were evening and morning, one day, it is not difficult to see the instruction from the Word, especially in light of the Jewish community understanding, that jesus could have spent three days in the heart of the earth, an idiom, before His resurrection on the first day of the week.

"A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. "Matthew 16:4 KJV

"Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."Jonah 1:17 KJV

Jesus did not spend three exact 24 hour days in the belly of the earth, anymore than Jonah spent three exact 24 hour days and nights in the belly of the fish.

Regards!

[Kevin H]

Then why did Jesus say "3 days AND 3 nights in the heart of the earth" if He didn't meant just that? Remember, in Jewish tradition you were not considered completely dead until after 3 whole days were over. This is why Jesus waited until Lazarus had been dead three days before He raised him from the dead. This is the reason that the Sanhedrin went active in plotting to kill Jesus after the Lazarus incident; there was no doubt that Lazarus was really dead and the Jesus had really raised him up. At that point the Sanhedrin KNEW beyond doubt that Jesus WAS the Son of God, and that if they left things the way they were then Jesus would become king of the Jews, and they would be out of power. This they could not countenance.

So the idea that any part of 3 days just doesn't fly. What I want to know is why SDA's do not rush to embrace the idea that Jesus was raised on Sabbath? It seem like a natural follow-on and confirmation Creation and the 4th Commandment.

First, the Bible texts say the first day, second, the Gospel texts are DIRECT quotes of Old Testament texts for the feast of first fruits, which was waved before the alter in the early morning of the Sunday after passover. Jesus rose from the dead at the same time. Just as the first fruit offering was a promise of the coming harvest, so Jesus' raising on the moment of the first fruits offering is a promise of the coming resurection of all of God's people. And Paul also refers to this Sunday morning resurection when calling Jesus our first fruits.

Jesus celebrated passover on Tuesday night, which was the night that some of the Jewish groups, most notably the Essenes celebrated passover, he died when the Pharicees cellebrated passover at the time for the passover lamb to be sacrificed on Friday afternoon, and rose early Sunday morning at the time of the first fruits wave offering at the temple.

As to the three 24 hour period,that would only be reading in modern western though into an ancient eastern document.

[Dr. Rich]

just days before Jesus was killed He said something to the effect that there were 12 hours to the daylight and 12 hours to the night which to my investigative mind would mean He was near the time of the Spring Equinox. Therefore Jesus knew exactily how many hours there were in one day.

[LifeHiscost]

What I want to know is why SDA's do not rush to embrace the idea that Jesus was raised on Sabbath? It seem like a natural follow-on and confirmation Creation and the 4th Commandment.

Not that this is the only possible explanation, but since it is not Seventh Day Adventist's responsibility to convince others of that which is true, (that's the responsibility of the Holy Spirit) it is seen in a number of instances of the Word, that God brings people to the brink of circumstances that might place them into exercising their faith in the Word as opposed to accepting experiences in contrast to the Word, to define Truth.

This brings to the surface of an individual, whether they will accept God's Truth while under assault of satanic origin.

The experience and reaction of Peter during the capture and subsequent abuse of Jesus is an example of this, proving that if we fail the test, Jesus does not abandon His erring children when they exercise the repentance our Father places in their options of choice.

"Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts..."Malachi 3:7 KJV

Regards!