Church Coffee Cafe

[Dr. Shane]

Not your typical church coffee

With the explosion of coffee shops opening up across the country, more and more churches are trying to incorporate the coffee-shop atmosphere into their buildings. They're bringing in espresso machines and setting up lounge-like rooms in an effort to get people — especially young adults — to think of a church as a place they can go to for more than Sunday morning worship and Wednesday night Bible study.

'We're trying to bridge church culture with what you may call pop culture,' said Eric Dixon, manager of Daystar Family Church's coffee shop The Pulpit Cafe. 'We want to be relevant. We want to make church part of daily living, and this offers a community meeting place for people to just come and relax in a safe, family-friendly, Christian environment. … This isn't your typical church coffee with the Styrofoam cup and the percolator after worship.'

Market reports indicate that America's thirst for coffee continues to drive sales. According to Mintel, a market-research firm in Chicago, sales in American coffee shops will have grown close to five fold between 2000 and 2010. Additionally, the firm reported last year that the number of coffee shops nationwide increased 70 percent between 2000 and 2005.

People are flocking to coffee houses. And it's those people churches are hoping to attract.

While Pour doesn't maintain regular hours, and the space is most often used as a gathering place for church Bible studies and small group meetings, it does open for concerts, readings and other events multiple times throughout the year. When those events occur, the space takes on its intended form as a working coffee shop. The customers are often not church members but people from the general public interested in a having a hot drink and attending whatever event is planned for the night.

'We're not really trying to be an alternative to the bar scene, instead we're trying to be our own unique place,' said Buddy Overstreet, who manages Pour. 'It came about from my taste in music and liking a different style and atmosphere than what is really available in Tuscaloosa.'

[text from link]

[carolaa]

Wow, what a great idea!

[Dr. Shane]

It would have to be decaf coffee for sure. There are other things sold at these "coffee shops." Things like muffins, bagels, toasted raisin bread, fruit smoothies, hot apple cider, hot chocolate, milk, virgin piña colatas, ice cream treats, etc.

Would it water down the gospel? Not unless we actually changed our doctrine.

[Outta Here]

Makes sense. The whole idea of coffee shops started with churchgoers--heading out for coffee with their friends after church...

[lazarus]

It would have to be decaf coffee for sure. There are other things sold at these "coffee shops." Things like muffins, bagels, toasted raisin bread, fruit smoothies, hot apple cider, hot chocolate, milk, virgin piña colatas, ice cream treats, etc.

I'm hungry.......for more evangelism like this.

Matthew 11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.”’ But wisdom is proved right by her actions.”

[carolaa]

WELL I still think that decaf still has caffine in it but all the other items you mentioned would be OK

Yeah, that sugar laden stuff is all ok as long as there's no speck of caffeine to be found.

I think each church would have to decide for themselves what was right for their clientele. Hopefully, we could come up with some tasty healthy options without being preachy.

[Dr. Shane]

Hot chocolate has more caffeine in it than decaf coffee does.

If we are going to be relevant to society we need to meet people where they are without compromising our doctrine. The question I ask is "Does this compromise our doctrine?" Sugary drinks are much more unhealthy than decaf coffee. Ellen White takes a very strong stand against regular coffee so I don't think it would be wise to serve regular coffee while teaching that Ellen White was inspired by God. Some churches may want to stay away from coffee altogether. I have attended Hispanic churches where decaf coffee was served. I take no issue with that.

[Woody]

There is NO church doctrine that says everything Ellen White ever wrote was inspired.

[Woody]

There were times that what Ellen White said was actually wrong and there were times she admitted it.

To My Brethren in Positions of Responsibility:--

During the night following our interview in my house and out on the lawn under the trees, October 19, 1902, in regard to the work in the Southern field, the Lord instructed me that I had taken a wrong position."

(Spalding and Magan Collection p.282.2)

[John317]

But what is the purpose of continually pointing out that Ellen White made mistakes?

What would be the purpose of continually pointing out that Peter, Paul, James and John made mistakes?

It seems to me that one reason is in order to be able to ignore or avoid things that we choose to reject or that we don't like. We can always say, "Yeah, but you know, she made mistakes, and who knows if maybe this is one of those mistakes. I think it is."

[Woody]

What would be the purpose of saying we should do everything that Ellen White advises us to do and to indicate that it is "church doctrine" ?

Error needs to be balanced with the Truth.

[John317]

What would be the purpose of saying we should do everything that Ellen White advises us to do and to indicate that it is "church doctrine" ?

So far as I can see, we do not need to worry that as a church we are going to be too obedient to God's instructions through Ellen White. It's the other way around. Remember that Ellen White didn't say that just before the end of probation, the church will be too supportive of the Spirit of Prophecy. She said that there will be a hatred kindled against the Testimonies that is Satanic, and that those who accept the false teachings will first give up their belief in the Spirit of Prophecy.

[Dr. Shane]

There are a couple of issues here.

#1. If we are going to teach that Ellen White had the gift of prophecy, it would be quite hypocritical for us to turn around and go against her council as an organization. No where does Ellen White ever indicate that she was mistaken in regard to coffee. Caffeine is addictive and even if the health consequences are not grave, we should avoid using addictive substances when we don't need to.

#2. RESPECT. Those that want to fellowship or be part of the Seventh-day Adventist movement need to respect the fact that most people do hold the writings of Ellen White in high esteem. If a person cannot respect that, they need to find another organization to fellowship with. Those that have a fundamental problem with the Spirit of Prophecy would be doing themselves and others a favor to separate from the Adventist movement.

[Dr. Shane]

if we are trying to teach something more healthy

why serve anything unhealthy

including hot chocolate---decaff---or even ice cream

we as a church as serve healthy drinks and food items

#1 We need to meet people where they are at. If we only serve healthy items than the only people that will come are those that have already decided to accept the health message.

#2 Our potlucks and church socials are already filled with unhealthy food.

[Kountzer]

This is old news. I know of several sunday mega-churches with coffee lounges/cafes.

[Dr. Shane]

Adventist churches?

[Woody]

Quote:

No where does Ellen White ever indicate that she was mistaken in regard to coffee. Caffeine is addictive and even if the health consequences are not grave, we should avoid using addictive substances when we don't need to.

Since Ellen White herself used coffee .... I'm not so sure how much water this holds. For sure ... coffee use or non use is not a doctrine of this church. And neither is going along with everything she ever wrote.

Prophets are called for a specific purpose. Ellen White was a prophet for a specific purpose. Not a general all encompassing purpose.

Unfortunately some in our church have become Ellen White followers instead of followers of Christ.

BTW ... the typical conservative mantra is to claim that since I am speaking out about coffee that I must want deep inside to be a coffee drinker. This is why I am rejecting the Testimonies supposedly. Sorry. FOr the record I have no desire to drink coffee.

[Dr. Shane]

Unfortunately some in the church try to villianize others as being Ellen White followers instead of followers of Christ.

[Woody]

Truth is Truth.

It may hurt some times. But we are called to proclaim it.

But my belief is that our church IS and NEEDS to be more inclusive than what you are proposing. Course ... on the other hand we could just kick out all of them there Ellen White extremists.

[Dr. Shane]

Well I am not that judgmental of other people. I would never sit in judgment on someone by saying they are following Ellen White instead of Jesus. I will let Jesus decide that.

[Woody]

Quote:

"Those that want to fellowship or be part of the Seventh-day Adventist movement need to respect the fact that most people do hold the writings of Ellen White in high esteem. If a person cannot respect that, they need to find another organization to fellowship with. Those that have a fundamental problem with the Spirit of Prophecy would be doing themselves and others a favor to separate from the Adventist movement."

Were you giving this advice to Jesus then?

[Dr. Shane]

Those that want to fellowship or be part of the Latter Day Saints need to respect the fact that most people do hold the writings of Joseph Smith in high esteem. If a person cannot respect that, they need to find another organization to fellowship with. Those that have a fundamental problem with the Book of Mormon would be doing themselves and others a favor to separate from the church of the Latter Day Saints.

[Woody]

Does the Church of Mormon have no dissent?

I suppose it is a model for the SDA church? We should have only those who believe in Ellen White as Shane believes in Ellen White. A church to HIS liking.

My view is that the Ellen White extremists should be welcome just as Ellen White moderates should be welcome in this church.

Nothing wrong with diversity. Personally I stand by the 28 Fundamentals as agreed upon doctrine. Not the dogma of extremists who would love to take over our beloved church. I still welcome them. But I reject their teachings.

[Dr. Shane]

I believe Ellen White received divine visions and dreams from God but I don't know if I would go as far as calling her a prophet. I am not convinced everything she wrote was inspired. But this isn't about me and my beliefs. It is about respecting others and their beliefs. If I am going to be an Adventist and actively participate in this church I need to respect those that have strong convictions in regard to Ellen White. I have no problem doing that. To allow caffeinated coffee to be served at a church function would be highly disrespectful to others in the church with deep convictions. I have a little more respect for others than to support such a proposal.

I do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet nor inspired by God. As a result of my disbelief in Smith, I do not attend the LDS church nor fellowship with the LDS people. I do not go to their web boards and tell them not to believe in Smith. I have better things to do.

[Woody]

How do you decide which side wins and controls the functions at church? Are you going to disrespect the meat eaters by refusing their meat at potluck? The same goes for coffee. The case against coffee is very weak and just like the meat issue ... most SDAs are not with the exremists. So .... how do you decide who to disrespect?