Sabbath and Sunday

[Woody]

Is there anything wrong with attending Sabbath services and then attending a Sunday service?

[Gregory Matthews]

No. I conduct services on Sunday. I also attend church on Saturday.

[Woody]

HEY REDWOOD

I was told by a S.D.A. pastor until the sunday law

is passed you can attend sunday services

dgrimm60

Praise God dgrimm. But what does the Sunday law have to do with it? Just curious.

[Woody]

I was not aware that in order to keep Sabbath that one had to attend church. If that is so ... I am in big trouble. So whether I attended church on Sunday or not should not matter. It is what is in the heart that matters. Going to church on Sunday does not change my Sabbath keeping or loyality to God unless I viewed that day as holy. Which I do not.

What do you think?

[phkrause]

Not sure that it has to do with going to Church on Sabbath per se. I think its just gathering together anywhere to worship on Sabbath. Just like in many countries today.

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

It still wouldn't make any difference, because attending church is not synonymous with keeping a day holy, even if the members of the church you are attending do believe it's holy. Once Sunday laws are passed, we could have Sunday services at our Adventist churches in addition to Sabbath services, so long as we are still keeping the entire Sabbath holy. But when the powers that be see that we are still keeping the true Sabbath, they will make that illegal in some way or other.

[Gregory Matthews]

Exactly. And, that is wahst EGW says to do.

[Woody]

Cool. Where does she say that Gregory. I would be very interested to see that.

[Gregory Matthews]

Redwood: EGW has written much as to how we are to relate to persecution related to Sabbath/Sunday issues. Here is one such quotation, which if I understand the citation correctly it comes from 9T232:

Quote:

The light given me by the Lord at a time when we were expecting just such a crisis as you seem to be approaching was that when the people were moved by a power from beneath to enforce Sunday observance, Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by refraining from their ordinary work on that day, devoting it to missionary effort’ (p. 232). ‘Give them no occasion to call you lawbreakers.’ ‘It will be very easy to avoid that difficulty. Give Sunday to the Lord as the day for doing missionary work.’”

You will note that the above calls upon people to do missionary work on Sunday. It does not directly state that such includes worship services. I picked the above of the EGW Estate website today. In thier comment on the above they suggested that EGW would include holding worship services on Sunday that included preparing the people for the comming Lord. NOTE: My words and not a direct quote. I happen to agree that such was the position of EGW.

The EGW Estate comments correctly note that the positon of EGW was never directed against Sunday as such. Rather her posiiton spoke of a positive message in regard to the Sabbath, the peril of neglecting or giving up on the Sabbath and replacing the Sabbath with Sunday. IOW, the Biblical focus in positive toward the Sabbath, not negative against Sunday. Those who keep the Sabbath in the Biblical sense are free to use Sunday as they wish to include using it as a means to reach people for the Lord which could include formal services and in building relationships with Sunday keepers.

I used to tell SDA members of my congregation to attend Sunday services with their spouse in a relationshp building mode. I would also tell them to encourage their spouse to be faithful to what they beleived the Holy Spirit was telling them. Those who are faithful to the light that they have are open to developing light in the future.

In any case, as I understand, EGW encourages the use of Sunday as a means to reach people and that means may inculde services on Sunday. Just, in doing so, give up the Sabbath. Remain faithful to it.

[phkrause]

Gregory I really liked your post. Great advice to those that need it, and there are many I would imagine. Again a great post Gregory.

pk

[Gail]

Yes, Gregory, thanks for that. It shows the sensible position that I appreciate about the church.

[Twilight]

Redwood: EGW has written much as to how we are to relate to persecution related to Sabbath/Sunday issues. Here is one such quotation, which if I understand the citation correctly it comes from 9T232:

Quote:

The light given me by the Lord at a time when we were expecting just such a crisis as you seem to be approaching was that when the people were moved by a power from beneath to enforce Sunday observance, Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by refraining from their ordinary work on that day, devoting it to missionary effort’ (p. 232). ‘Give them no occasion to call you lawbreakers.’ ‘It will be very easy to avoid that difficulty. Give Sunday to the Lord as the day for doing missionary work.’”

You will note that the above calls upon people to do missionary work on Sunday. It does not directly state that such includes worship services. I picked the above of the EGW Estate website today. In thier comment on the above they suggested that EGW would include holding worship services on Sunday that included preparing the people for the comming Lord. NOTE: My words and not a direct quote. I happen to agree that such was the position of EGW.

The EGW Estate comments correctly note that the positon of EGW was never directed against Sunday as such. Rather her posiiton spoke of a positive message in regard to the Sabbath, the peril of neglecting or giving up on the Sabbath and replacing the Sabbath with Sunday. IOW, the Biblical focus in positive toward the Sabbath, not negative against Sunday. Those who keep the Sabbath in the Biblical sense are free to use Sunday as they wish to include using it as a means to reach people for the Lord which could include formal services and in building relationships with Sunday keepers.

I used to tell SDA members of my congregation to attend Sunday services with their spouse in a relationshp building mode. I would also tell them to encourage their spouse to be faithful to what they beleived the Holy Spirit was telling them. Those who are faithful to the light that they have are open to developing light in the future.

In any case, as I understand, EGW encourages the use of Sunday as a means to reach people and that means may inculde services on Sunday. Just, in doing so, give up the Sabbath. Remain faithful to it.

Hello Gregory :-)

I am curious, how did you come to the conclusion that we should attend other churches from the above quote (if I am indeed reading you correctly)?

Are you suggesting that Ellen White proposed this, or are you inferring that this is acceptable based on your understanding of what "missionary work" is?

In any case, as I understand, EGW encourages the use of Sunday as a means to reach people and that means may inculde services on Sunday.

Mark

[Woody]

Excellent Gregory. I liked this when reading and researching your quote:

Quote:

"Sunday can be used for carrying forward various lines of work that will accomplish much for the Lord. On this day open-air meetings and cottage meetings can be held. House-to-house work can be done. Those who write can devote this day to writing their articles. Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Saviour's love. Speak on temperance and on true religious experience. You will thus learn much about how to work, and will reach many souls. " 9T 233

And I also agree that it would be good for spouses to joing their spouses at other Christian churches on Sunday. Why should we limit ourselves to just Sabbath services?

Excellent.

[Twilight]

Excellent Gregory. I liked this when reading and researching your quote:

Quote:

"Sunday can be used for carrying forward various lines of work that will accomplish much for the Lord. On this day open-air meetings and cottage meetings can be held. House-to-house work can be done. Those who write can devote this day to writing their articles. Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Saviour's love. Speak on temperance and on true religious experience. You will thus learn much about how to work, and will reach many souls. " 9T 233

And I also agree that it would be good for spouses to joing their spouses at other Christian churches on Sunday. Why should we limit ourselves to just Sabbath services?

Excellent.

Any church?

Even a tongues speaking, slaying in the Spirit, congregation?

Or how about a snake biting Church?

Mark

[Woody]

Ummmm I didn't say 'any' ... please don't put words in my mouth. I said 'other'. The other meaning those that preach the Gospel. But, I wouldn't count out those that you are saying. If your spouse is going there ... that is the price of marrying them in my book. I just wouldn't make a habit of going. I do think it is important to find common ground and to share things that your spouse is interested in. It does not mean that you have to agree with it.

God is stronger than Satan. And so when you attend these other churches .... you can remain strong in Christ.

[Twilight]

Ummmm I didn't say 'any' ... please don't put words in my mouth. I said 'other'. The other meaning those that preach the Gospel. But, I wouldn't count out those that you are saying. If your spouse is going there ... that is the price of marrying them in my book. I just wouldn't make a habit of going. I do think it is important to find common ground and to share things that your spouse is interested in. It does not mean that you have to agree with it.

God is stronger than Satan. And so when you attend these other churches .... you can remain strong in Christ.

But you did not also stipulate what churches people should go to. That was why I asked for clarification.

So should someone go to "any" church just because their partner goes there?

What if they start attending after they are married?

And is it restricted to "Christian" Faiths.

What if my wife became a practicing Buddhist, should I go with her?

These questions start to get complicated very quickly...

Mark

[lazarus]

These questions start to get complicated very quickly...

Mark

Only if you make them complicated. It's not wrong to attend a Sunday church, a mosque, Synagogue, a Bhudist temple etc. with your spouse or a friend.

[phkrause]

I don't believe anyone is saying to join another church. I think if we are invited, we should go. It can't hurt. We can even take the opportunity to witness for our faith. And even invite them to our church. I don't see a problem.

pk

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

These questions start to get complicated very quickly...

Mark

Only if you make them complicated. It's not wrong to attend a Sunday church, a mosque, Synagogue, a Bhudist temple etc. with your spouse or a friend.

What about a spiritualist Church, or a seance?

Would they be okay?

[phkrause]

I think Twilight we have to really think before we go to anything like that. I would have no problem going to a regular christian church. I would have a problem with a seance or spiritualism type of church. I think than you are putting yourself, just like allowing yourself to be hipmatised (sp), into Satan's domain. If we are strong in our faith I don't see any problems with going to certain churches, or a synagogue. And like Lazarus mentioned what would be wrong going to a mosque even?

pk

[Gregory Matthews]

Originally Posted By: Gregory Matthews

Redwood: EGW has written much as to how we are to relate to persecution related to Sabbath/Sunday issues. Here is one such quotation, which if I understand the citation correctly it comes from 9T232:

Quote:

The light given me by the Lord at a time when we were expecting just such a crisis as you seem to be approaching was that when the people were moved by a power from beneath to enforce Sunday observance, Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by refraining from their ordinary work on that day, devoting it to missionary effort’ (p. 232). ‘Give them no occasion to call you lawbreakers.’ ‘It will be very easy to avoid that difficulty. Give Sunday to the Lord as the day for doing missionary work.’”

You will note that the above calls upon people to do missionary work on Sunday. It does not directly state that such includes worship services. I picked the above of the EGW Estate website today. In thier comment on the above they suggested that EGW would include holding worship services on Sunday that included preparing the people for the comming Lord. NOTE: My words and not a direct quote. I happen to agree that such was the position of EGW.

The EGW Estate comments correctly note that the positon of EGW was never directed against Sunday as such. Rather her posiiton spoke of a positive message in regard to the Sabbath, the peril of neglecting or giving up on the Sabbath and replacing the Sabbath with Sunday. IOW, the Biblical focus in positive toward the Sabbath, not negative against Sunday. Those who keep the Sabbath in the Biblical sense are free to use Sunday as they wish to include using it as a means to reach people for the Lord which could include formal services and in building relationships with Sunday keepers.

I used to tell SDA members of my congregation to attend Sunday services with their spouse in a relationshp building mode. I would also tell them to encourage their spouse to be faithful to what they beleived the Holy Spirit was telling them. Those who are faithful to the light that they have are open to developing light in the future.

In any case, as I understand, EGW encourages the use of Sunday as a means to reach people and that means may inculde services on Sunday. Just, in doing so, give up the Sabbath. Remain faithful to it.

Hello Gregory :-)

I am curious, how did you come to the conclusion that we should attend other churches from the above quote (if I am indeed reading you correctly)?

Are you suggesting that Ellen White proposed this, or are you inferring that this is acceptable based on your understanding of what "missionary work" is?

In any case, as I understand, EGW encourages the use of Sunday as a means to reach people and that means may inculde services on Sunday.

Mark

If you thought that I was making a general suggestion that SDAs should attend other Sunday keeping churches, I was not. I apologize for not stating well my thinking. I certainly do not know of any statement of EGW to the effect that we should generally attend Sunday keeping churches.

However, I do believe that in the effort to build relationships and to strengthen the marriage, that it is well if SDAs married to non-SDA attend the Sunday keeping church with their spouse. I do not claim any statement by EGW for that position.

There are other exceptions in which I might encourage a SDA to attend a Sunday keeping church. I have a son who is not active in any denomination. He married a woman, who like him was also not active in any church. Since their marriage she has returned to the church of her heritage. When I am visiting them I often attend church with her in an attempt to build a relationship with her and to send a message that I will support her in her effort to become an active Christian. NOTE: She is not at the place where I can promote Adventism. In fact, on our last visit to them she told me how much she appreciated that I had not attempted to change her religious viewpoints. God can lead. I have faith in the leading of God.

Another point in which I may not have been clear in what I said (Again I apologize for that lack of clairty.): I do not know of any place where EGW would have suggested that SDA attend Sunday keeping churches. However, in her counsel as to how we sould related to Sunday laws, she over and over suggests that we should not violate those laws by seculare labor on Sunday when prohibited by law. Rather, she suggests that we should then devote Sunday to missionary work. The passage that I cited does not directly say that we should hold religious services on Sunday. I believe that in one passage EGW does make such a statement. But, I clearly do not have it before me and probably do not have the time to research it. In any case the emphasis of EGW was on Sunday being a time to do missionary work to bring people into a closer knowledge of the Lord. That would have been her emphasis in any kind of a religious service on Sulnday.

It is from this standpoint that I believe it is O.K. for an SDA congregation to schedule a Sunday service as an evangelistic outreach.

I hope this answers your questions. Feel free to ask again if I have not responded to them.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday.

Thank you Redwood for your quote from EGW. I am at work and could not researh it. That is the one I remembered. EGW does advocate holding relilgious services on Sunday under the right kind of circumstances.

[Gregory Matthews]

Mark said:

Quote:

Any church?

Even a tongues speaking, slaying in the Spirit, congregation?

Or how about a snake biting Church?

Mark

No, I would make a personal decision to draw the line. I would not attend every type of religious service.

As to your question: Is your God big enough to lead you as to what you should do?

[Twilight]

I think Twilight we have to really think before we go to anything like that. I would have no problem going to a regular christian church. I would have a problem with a seance or spiritualism type of church. I think than you are putting yourself, just like allowing yourself to be hipmatised (sp), into Satan's domain. If we are strong in our faith I don't see any problems with going to certain churches, or a synagogue. And like Lazarus mentioned what would be wrong going to a mosque even?

pk

What about a tongues speaking slain in the Spirit Church PK?

Would that be ok to go to?

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Hello Gregory :-)

I am curious, how did you come to the conclusion that we should attend other churches from the above quote (if I am indeed reading you correctly)?

Are you suggesting that Ellen White proposed this, or are you inferring that this is acceptable based on your understanding of what "missionary work" is?

In any case, as I understand, EGW encourages the use of Sunday as a means to reach people and that means may inculde services on Sunday.

Mark [/quote']

If you thought that I was making a general suggestion that SDAs should attend other Sunday keeping churches, I was not. I apologize for not stating well my thinking. I certainly do not know of any statement of EGW to the effect that we should generally attend Sunday keeping churches.

However, I do believe that in the effort to build relationships and to strengthen the marriage, that it is well if SDAs married to non-SDA attend the Sunday keeping church with their spouse. I do not claim any statement by EGW for that position.

There are other exceptions in which I might encourage a SDA to attend a Sunday keeping church. I have a son who is not active in any denomination. He married a woman, who like him was also not active in any church. Since their marriage she has returned to the church of her heritage. When I am visiting them I often attend church with her in an attempt to build a relationship with her and to send a message that I will support her in her effort to become an active Christian. NOTE: She is not at the place where I can promote Adventism. In fact, on our last visit to them she told me how much she appreciated that I had not attempted to change her religious viewpoints. God can lead. I have faith in the leading of God.

Another point in which I may not have been clear in what I said (Again I apologize for that lack of clairty.): I do not know of any place where EGW would have suggested that SDA attend Sunday keeping churches. However, in her counsel as to how we sould related to Sunday laws, she over and over suggests that we should not violate those laws by seculare labor on Sunday when prohibited by law. Rather, she suggests that we should then devote Sunday to missionary work. The passage that I cited does not directly say that we should hold religious services on Sunday. I believe that in one passage EGW does make such a statement. But, I clearly do not have it before me and probably do not have the time to research it. In any case the emphasis of EGW was on Sunday being a time to do missionary work to bring people into a closer knowledge of the Lord. That would have been her emphasis in any kind of a religious service on Sulnday.

It is from this standpoint that I believe it is O.K. for an SDA congregation to schedule a Sunday service as an evangelistic outreach.

I hope this answers your questions. Feel free to ask again if I have not responded to them.

Thank you for clarifying that Gregory. :-)