Depends On What Is"Is"

[bonnie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/...-rape-rape.html

Roman Polanski

Roman Polanski: backlash as Whoopi Goldberg says director didn't commit 'rape-rape'

Whoopi Goldberg is facing a fierce backlash after saying that film director Roman Polanski didn't commit "rape-rape" when he had unlawful sex with a 13-year-old girl.

By Nick Allen

Published: 7:30AM BST 30 Sep 2009

Photo: AFP/Getty

Goldberg, star of The Color Purple and Sister Act, said: "I know it wasn't rape-rape. I think it was something else, but I don't believe it was rape-rape.

"He pled guilty to having sex with a minor and he went to jail, and when they let him out he said 'You know what, this guy's going to give me 100 years in jail. I'm not staying'. And that's why he left." Polanski was arrested in Zurich, Switzerland on Sunday and faces extradition to the United States. He fled the US in 1978 before being sentenced for the crime and has been pursued around the globe by prosecutors ever since.

The director originally faced charges including rape and sodomy but they were dismissed following plea bargaining and he admitted unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor.

More than 100 film industry figures have now signed a petition calling for the release of Polanski, the acclaimed director of Chinatown, Rosemary's Baby and The Pianist.

They include leading Hollywood figures Martin Scorcese, Woody Allen, David Lynch, Wim Wenders, Pedro Almodovar, Tilda Swinton and Monica Bellucci.

One celebrity supporter, the actress Debra Winger, said it was a "three-decades-old case that is dead but for minor technicalities. We stand by him and await his release and his next masterpiece." Movie mogul Harvey Weinstein said Polanski was a "humanist" who had been the victim of a "miscarriage of justice". He said: "We will have to speak to our leaders, particularly in California. I'm not too shy to go and talk to the Governor of California, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and to ask him once and for all to look at this." However, the views of the Hollywood elite seemed out of step with those of ordinary Americans and they now face a backlash.

On the Los Angeles Times website only one in 30 comments from members of the public supported Polanski and most called for him to face justice.

Katie Buckland, executive director of the California Women's Law Center, said supporting Polanski's release "sends a message that the rich and powerful can get away with crimes that no one else can get away with."

Asked if the Los Angeles County district attorney's office, which is seeking Polanski's extradition, would bow to Hollywood pressure, its spokeswoman Jane Robison said simply: "No."

She said attempts to extradite Polanski would continue and there were no plans to meet with the Hollywood stars backing Polanski.

The French director Luc Besson refused to sign the petition calling for Polanski's release.

He said: "I have a lot of affection for him, he is a man that I like very much but nobody should be above the law. I don't know the details of this case, but I think that when you don't show up for trial, you are taking a risk."

[Gerr]

Which of those Hollywood characters asking for his release have any

qualms about sexual morality? Didn't Woody Allen have sex with his own

step-daughter and then wound up marrying her?

Do they give any hoot about the girl who was raped? Or was it consensual

even though she was under-age?

[bonnie]

Which of those Hollywood characters asking for his release have any

qualms about sexual morality? Didn't Woody Allen have sex with his own

step-daughter and then wound up marrying her?

Do they give any hoot about the girl who was raped? Or was it consensual

even though she was under-age?

A 13 year old cannot give consent to an adult. It is rape pure and simple. Only question is "if you have the wherewithal to relocate to another country where you live a pretty good life"

when is guilt a non issue.

[Bravus]

She also did *not* give consent - the trial showed that she said 'no' at every stage.

I'm with you on this one, and blogged to that effect yesterday: http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=1412

[bonnie]

She also did *not* give consent - the trial showed that she said 'no' at every stage.

I'm with you on this one, and blogged to that effect yesterday: http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=1412

The celebrities that call this not a rape,rape,they show just how ignorant and shallow they are.

I wonder if they would say same if this had been their daughter that was not rape,raped

[Guest]

Amen Bonnie

[phkrause]

All that this is showing us is how sick these people are, that they can't even stand up for what is right. Its absolutely sicken. And you have to wonder what the problem is with these other countries, I for one can't believe that it took them this long to figure out who this guy was!!!!!! They are just as bad.

pk

[Gail]

pk, they KNEW who he was already! He was a famous director even in the day when his wife Sharon Tate was murdered.

[phkrause]

Exactly my point Gail, so why so long before they arrested him? They should've let us know right away that he was there. Or was he arrested for something else?

pk

[Gail]

I mean, have any of you seen the latest revelation of Mackenzie Phillips, who now claims that her father had sex with her after having shot her up?

This was the mindset of the rich and famous during the "hip" 60s...

[phkrause]

I'd say gail this is and will always be the mindset where God is left out.

pk

[Amelia]

^GP

Quote:

Roman Polanski Had No Idea He'd Be Caught

By Peter Mikelbank and Karen Nickel Anhalt

September 28, 2009

For more than 30 years he has lived as a fugitive from American justice, but director Roman Polanski has finally fallen into a trap he has been careful to elude before.

On Saturday, the Oscar-winning filmmaker – who pleaded guilty to unlawful sex with a minor in California in 1978, but fled the country before sentencing – was arrested on arrival in Switzerland, where he was to receive an award at the Zurich International Film Festival, and where he also has a vacation home.

Since leaving the U.S., Polanski, 76, a citizen of France, has successfully dodged attempts by U.S. authorities to have him arrested by foreign police and returned to California. France, where he lives with his family, is not bound by law to honor U.S. requests for his arrest and Switzerland, which does have an extradition treaty with the U.S., only acts upon specific request.

U.S. Request

According to Guido Balmer, spokesman for the Swiss Federal Department of Justice and Police, Polanski was detained this weekend after being notified that he would be entering the country by the U.S. government.

"An arrest like that depends on having the information ahead of time of when the person is in the country," Balmer tells PEOPLE. "Information came from the U.S. continually. In the current situation, the U.S. Department of Justice made us aware of when he would be here."

Sandi Gibbons, spokesperson for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office, tells it a bit differently. Polanski, she says, was ultimately tripped up by the World Wide Web. "It wasn't a big secret that he was going to be in Zurich," Gibbons told reporters. "They had announced it on the Internet."

'No Suspicion'

Two previous attempts to arrest Polanski when he traveled to countries that have extradition treaties with the U.S. had failed, Gibbons says, because each time he apparently learned of the plans and canceled his trips.

According to a source close to the director, Polanski "had no suspicion he'd be entrapped" when he flew to Switzerland. Speaking from Zurich, his lawyer, Herve Temime, told French newspapers that he would fight the extradition and work relentlessly to have Polanski released.

"The most surprising aspect is that Mr. Polanski goes to Switzerland several times a year," Temime said. "He owns a chalet in Gstaad and vacations there three months annually."

Lengthy Appeal

Upon arrival at Zurich Airport, the director was placed into provisional detention by Swiss police, taken into a holding area and then brought to the airport's high-security prison area. During processing, he was allowed one phone call. Polanski called actress Emmanuelle Seigner, his wife since l989, in Paris.

"He told her he'd been arrested and that she wasn't to worry," one source says. " 'Don't worry, don't worry,' he said repeatedly.

It could be two or three months before Polanski arrives in the U.S. if he contests extradition and fails. The U.S. now has 60 days to submit a formal request for Polanski's extradition. If he actually agrees to be extradited, he could be sent to the U.S. within days.

From the Swiss standpoint, they were simply abiding by a treaty with the U.S. "When Mr. Polanski arrived we had no choice from a legal point of view but to arrest him," Swiss Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf says. "He obviously has the right to appeal – and I think he will do so."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20308543,00.html

[LifeHiscost]

I'd say gail this is and will always be the mindset where God is left out.

pk

Very important conclusion, PK. The perpetrator can always plead he has/had the mind of a 13 year old and therefor is not responsible for his actions. Considering some of the scenes I've seen recently in that which is allowed for entertainment, the only reason that couldn't be a reasonable defense is because the prosecution has no defense for that which is above their heads.

And since hearsay is not accepted as legal for defense or prosecution, who of us can sit in judgment? All of us will face judgment with a fair Judge one day. For our own safety, maybe we could pray for all concerned, that the Judge of all will work out the details to His satisfaction. But then, in the eyes of some, that might not work either since in their eyes God doesn't take charge of anything that will hurt.

"O God, You know my folly and blundering; my sins and my guilt are not hidden from You."

Psalms 69:5 AMP

Blessings!

[Bravus]

TNC has the news as usual: http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/10/liberals_against_child-rape.php

[bonnie]

Quote:

And since hearsay is not accepted as legal for defense or prosecution, who of us can sit in judgment? All of us will face judgment with a fair Judge one day. For our own safety, maybe we could pray for all concerned, that the Judge of all will work out the details to His satisfaction. But then, in the eyes of some, that might not work either since in their eyes God doesn't take charge of anything that will hurt.

Are you saying that to believe a man that did this despicable act on a child should be prosecuted and face civil action is sitting in a wrongful judgment? Then all juries should not render a "judgement".

There are laws,he defied them in fleeing,he is completely unrepentant . He has said he does not believe anyone was harmed.

With that attitude it would not be far fetched to believe he has not repeated his actions.

Rarely will someone commit rape and get by with it just once.

Sexual abusers,especially those that abuse children don't do it just once and never again

[LifeHiscost]

Are you saying that to believe a man that did this despicable act on a child should be prosecuted and face civil action is sitting in a wrongful judgment? Then all juries should not render a "judgement".

There are laws,he defied them in fleeing,he is completely unrepentant . He has said he does not believe anyone was harmed.

With that attitude it would not be far fetched to believe he has not repeated his actions.

Rarely will someone commit rape and get by with it just once.

Sexual abusers,especially those that abuse children don't do it just once and never again

[bonnie]

Quote:

However I wasn't registering sarcasm about the hearsay part. It's a known fact that those tried in the media are seldom recipients of a fair trial. And I happen to know an individual who is now in prison, there as a result of guilt by association, for the last number of years.

If those who are immediately aware of the circumstances cannot receive a just trial, why would we believe the ones just listening to others tell the story are going to be able to come to a just conclusion? Are you acquainted with God's assessment of gossip?

Roman Polanski admitted it.Hard t call that gossip. It is also very hard to call the words of the 13 year old gossip.

What is unjust about believing this man did what accused of.

Those supporting this man also know he admitted the act. It just wasn't rape,"rape"

He is unrepentant,not believing anyone was harmed.

How does gossip enter the picture here.

Are you acquainted with God's assessment of gossip?

Yes, are you acquainted with what God says about harming a child?

Regardless of trying to insert gossip here,there is no speculation,unless you believe that what he did, didn't harm anyone

[bonnie]

Quote:

However I wasn't registering sarcasm about the hearsay part. It's a known fact that those tried in the media are seldom recipients of a fair trial. And I happen to know an individual who is now in prison, there as a result of guilt by association, for the last number of years.

If those who are immediately aware of the circumstances cannot receive a just trial, why would we believe the ones just listening to others tell the story are going to be able to come to a just conclusion? Are you acquainted with God's assessment of gossip?

No sarcasm,while you may know a person in prison that was only guilty by association,I have lost count of those I know that have been badly damaged by actions such as his.Personally if the man you have brought into this discussion was guilty by association with a child molester and he knew,did nothing,he is in the correct place

The abuser, like Roman Polenski,going free to do further damage for years. Knowledge and excuses being given for allowing a person like that free.

The girl went to authorities,he admitted. Gossip is not a word that fits into this.

[phkrause]

Not only is this not gossip Bonnie, like you say, I also hold all those that knew of this and did nothing to help authories to bring him to justice since the time that he has been hiding out. I would consider them as accomplice's and guilty by association.

pk

[bonnie]

Not only is this not gossip Bonnie, like you say, I also hold all those that knew of this and did nothing to help authories to bring him to justice since the time that he has been hiding out. I would consider them as accomplice's and guilty by association.

pk

There is no reason to bring the topic of gossip into this. Nor a man that was guilty by association and was sent to prison. Unless that man knew a child was being abused and did nothing.

Then society would be well served if he spent a good long while there.

My dad always called accomplice's "coat holders". His opinion was that at times they were more guilty of resulting harm than the one committing the act. Holding the coat so the abuser had free reign

There is something tho about this topic that you can almost hang your hat on. Derailing the topic with that awful word gossip.

Harming a child comes in a very distant second to that. Unless there are pictures and admission "it can be labeled gossip"

At times such as now,the girls detailed account and the admission of the abuser still doesn't cut it. Gossip again is brought into the equation

[LifeHiscost]

Not only is this not gossip Bonnie, like you say, I also hold all those that knew of this and did nothing to help authories to bring him to justice since the time that he has been hiding out. I would consider them as accomplice's and guilty by association.

pk

But like it was with Madoff, when a person makes lots of money, they live under different rules, their golden rule.

He who has the gold, makes the rules. I wonder how many close to Madoff were aware of what he was doing and how many they hurt by not blowing the whistle and how many are going to spend one minute in prison for being "accomplices".

I still believe tried by a jury through the media does not deliver justice. Sorry. And those who are tried by hearsay will get true justice the same as we all. And those who pass on scandel, will one day reap being scandalized. What goes around, comes around.

"Then Peter opened his mouth and said, "In truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons..."Acts 10:34 21st Century KJV

Regards!

[phkrause]

I agree, my problem comes after he had admitted to this and than split. Don't tell me that the people that he knew and than the people he met where ever he was had no idea who he was. That's all I'm saying. And yes even though he has avoided 30 years of prosecution, he will have to face the ultimate judge. And I have no problem with this. Because in reality the trial would've been a joke anyway.

pk

[bonnie]

Quote:

But like it was with Madoff, when a person makes lots of money, they live under different rules, their golden rule.

He who has the gold, makes the rules. I wonder how many close to Madoff were aware of what he was doing and how many they hurt by not blowing the whistle and how many are going to spend one minute in prison for being "accomplices".

I still believe tried by a jury through the media does not deliver justice. Sorry. And those who are tried by hearsay will get true justice the same as we all. And those who pass on scandel, will one day reap being scandalized. What goes around, comes around.

What does any of this have to do with Roman Polanski and raping a 13 year old girl? He was not tried thru the media.

He admitted what he had done and says now he doesn't understand because he doesn't think anyone was harmed.

As for passing on scandal many of the topics here should be removed. MJackson and the like.

[bonnie]

I agree, my problem comes after he had admitted to this and than split. Don't tell me that the people that he knew and than the people he met where ever he was had no idea who he was. That's all I'm saying. And yes even though he has avoided 30 years of prosecution, he will have to face the ultimate judge. And I have no problem with this. Because in reality the trial would've been a joke anyway.

pk

There is nothing biblical about leaving those that harm others continue on till Christ returns

[phkrause]

Not sure what you mean Bonnie?

pk