Condition/s for Salvation

[Gerr]

What is it? Or what are they?

[Guest]

This would not have derailed my thread.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Jhn 3:5

I have seen it put forth, that if a man only had John 3:16, that is enough information to be saved.

[Dr. Rich]

There is a reason when sworn in to testify that the court demands ALL the truth, not just bits and pieces. All of John 3 needs to be read and understood to know what is needed for salvation.

John 3:16 does not say that God sent His Son to die for anyone's sins. And too, we must remember that even Satan believes in Jesus--but still practices lies.

For me, this says it all: John 3:21 "But he who practices the TRUTH (opposite of a lie) comes into the light, that his DEEDS (works) may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

[Guest]

John 3:16 does not say that God sent His Son to die for anyone's sins.

Just the whole world Rich. Even a kindergarten bible student knows what God gave his only son for.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:16

[Dr. Rich]

Not sure what is wrong with you today--perhaps you didn't get enough sleep. A while ago you complained of assuming and presumption and you also wrote preemption was equal to nonsense.

Well now, I have caught you with doing a little assuming and presuming that even a kindergarten bible student knows that God gave His Son to die for their sins. Right? Clearly, the verse does NOT say that at all! And it is NOT for the whole world--only those out of the world who believe in what He said and taught for that's the only way they will truly know Him.

[Guest]

But he died for the whole world. That means whosoever will, can.

[Guest]

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Rev 22:17

[Musicman1228]

For what reason did Jesus Christ Himself say He came to this earth?

Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” John 18:37.

Jesus said that He came into the world to testify to the truth. In John 3:16 He said that His Father 'gave' His Son; the question is "to do what?"

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.  John 3:16.

It is clear that Jesus did NOT say He came to die; there is no mention of death in this verse. There is, however, the mention of 'belief'. Belief in 'what?' Believe in what Jesus came to testify too, believe in what God gave His Son for, which is the truth.

This illustrates another deception of Satan, that the world will be saved by the death of Jesus on the cross, and nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus Christ came to testify to the truth, this is why God sent His Son to the earth; it is in this truth that we must believe to be saved. Where do we find this truth? Only in the words of Jesus Christ. Why only in those words? Because that is exactly what Jesus said. If you do not believe in those words and that truth then nothing can save you, not even the blood of Jesus Christ.

[Guest]

That's right dgrimm

[Guest]

It is clear that Jesus did NOT say He came to die;

As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. Jhn 10:15

Go drink some more kool-aid musicman.

[phkrause]

That's exactly what the sacrificial system was all about. The penilty for sin is death. Jesus came to save us from that, so he gave his life in our place. And all we need to do is believe in him.

pk

[Bravus]

Gotta admire you guys' stamina - we've been going around and around on this, in looong threads, for years and years...

[Woody]

Gerry ... my hat's off to you. You have more stamina than I do. I'm wearing down.

But ... as you were.

[Lutz13]

Faith that God can save. That is pretty much it. He promised "I will put My spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgements and do them."(Ezekiel 36:27) I don't say I will do that. I say I believe you.

[Guest]

Gotta admire you guys' stamina - we've been going around and around on this, in looong threads, for years and years...

Who, me and MM?

[Dr. Rich]

RH--yep--He laid down his life for the SHEEP. I don't see anywhere here that His death did away with the sins of the world. Do you?

The writer of Romans wrote that Jesus laid down His life for the wicked. So are the wicked the same as His sheep?

[Guest]

I used to be wicked, and he died for me. Thank you Jesus!

[Dr. Rich]

I sure hope so! It's a good thing you are still not wicked and now can understand clearly the end time prophecy in Daniel. (Dan. 12:10) Perhaps you can help all of us out with this.

Actually, His death was to take on the penalty in the place of Adam's second death because if God would have killed Adam when he disobeyed God, then you and I would not be here today. Therefore, just as the passover lamb's blood on the door way kept the first born males alive, it only made it possible for you to be saved--you still have to overcome sin. Do you agree with this?

[Gerr]

Gerry ... my hat's off to you. You have more stamina than I do. I'm wearing down.

But ... as you were.

Nothing more to learn or unlearn?

What could be more important than knowing what the true gospel is? What the conditions are?

Some say all you need is to believe. Have faith. But Paul says, "If I have all faith so as to remove mountains but have not love, I AM NOTHING."

Some say "obedience." For Jesus said, "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." But then Paul says, "For by works of the law no human being will be justified..."

[Lutz13]

Nothing more to learn or unlearn?

What could be more important than knowing what the true gospel is? What the conditions are?

[Twilight]

Is it not:

To accept the merits of Christ's sacrifice on our behalf.

Recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit and the new birth.

Walk in the Spirit.

Mark :-)

[Guest]

Actually, His death was to take on the penalty in the place of Adam's second death because if God would have killed Adam when he disobeyed God, then you and I would not be here today. Therefore, just as the passover lamb's blood on the door way kept the first born males alive, it only made it possible for you to be saved--you still have to overcome sin. Do you agree with this?

He made it possible for the whole world, but of course the whole world will not be saved, because they won't allow it. You speak of overcoming sin as if it were something you had to do on your own. If that were the case, nobody would be saved.

He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation. Psa 24:5

Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it. 1Th 5:24

"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them."(Ezekiel 36:27)

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jhn 1:17

[Musicman1228]

Without the Holy Spirit we are nothing and can become nothing. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to GUIDE us into ALL truth, therefore if you have the Truth then it was the Holy Spirit that led you there. We cannot become obedient to the will of God without the true Holy Spirit. Yet there is a spirit in the world that mimics the Holy Spirit, but is a pretender and deceiver. It is that spirit that leads us into something that looks like the truth, and sounds like the truth, but in fact is not. Many believe that they have been healed physically by the Holy Spirit when in reality they were healed by the same spirit that put the disease in them in the first place (ref. TV faith healers).

How do you tell the real Holy Spirit from the fake one?

[Dr. Rich]

Gerry, your are right. What you pointed out is a true paradigm. So which is is true? I chose obedience.

[Dr. Rich]

RH wrote: "You speak of overcoming sin as if it were something you had to do on your own. If that were the case, nobody would be saved."

Take a minute to think about this: Gen. 4:6,7: "And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth and why is they countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shat rule over him." KJV Here is God actually talking to Cain. God knows what Cain is going to do--after all God knows everything--right? So tell me, how come God just didn't tell him that He knew what Cain was going to do? Why didn't God stop it?

Well, here God actually told Cain that he--himself would have to overcome sin--without the help of God or the Holy Spirit! Go fish!