Can we pursue capitalism____

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: Shane

It really does take a village.

Sounds like Hillary is in the house.

For me, I wouldn't want the village input for my children. I was only 18 when out first son was born but knew what my responsibilities were and who I wanted raising him. No money,but it was not rocket science how to do something about that.

Given help others should be able to do a better job

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Sounds like Hillary is in the house.

For me' date=' I wouldn't want the village input for my children. I was only 18 when out first son was born but knew what my responsibilities were and who I wanted raising him. No money,but it was not rocket science how to do something about that.

Given help others should be able to do a better job[/quote']

I wouldn't want the village anywhere near my kid. I've seen what the village kids are like.

[Dr. Shane]

Then why in the world do we pay for these women to go to college or job training?

[Dr. Shane]

I still would like you to clarify.

Why was it alright for my son to succeed without help from anyone.

I would hope that sons from good families have help from those families. Unfortunately many that end up on welfare roles come from broken homes and need a little more time, understanding and help.

If I had been born just a few miles south of where I live now, I would have never ever went to college. It is unlikely that I would have even finished high school. Our welfare system is truly a feather in our national hat and something for us to be proud of. It has created more rags-to-riches stories than one can even imagine. God bless America and thank the Lord Jesus Christ for our welfare system.

[Dr. Shane]

I wouldn't want the village anywhere near my kid. I've seen what the village kids are like.

The village triangle has three sides. One side is the parents. The second side is the church. The third side is the school. I think Adventism has a really good, working model of this.

[Robert]

Quote:

But...according to you...it's immoral for folks to get a free ride through welfare. You must stand up for principle and do the right thing! Stop paying taxes....Tell your government that God's laws (according to your view) are higher than man's laws...

Doesn't matter what I tell the government.When taxes are taken out of most salaries before the employee sees his check he cannot refuse to pay.

Then quit your job and get one where you are paid under the table....That way you no longer have to support all those lazy folks....

[bonnie]

Quote:

When a man is unwilling to do the job, the woman must do it. God called men first and when they declined He called a woman to be a mouthpiece for Him. Thus Ellen White accepted the role.

The word must is key.Until many of the women on welfare are forced to do so they have little inclination

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If the father is a deadbeat, then the woman needs to step up to the plate and society needs to help her to do so.

Let the men of the village raise and pay for the children.

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That is a well-documented truth. It is somewhere in the 70%-80% range.

A lot that you claim is well documented is denied by many other stats as well.

Within recent years most I know that have babies outside of marriage had babies because they either wanted babies or didn't use birth control.Never giving much thought to how these sweet little ones would be cared for.

Quote:

I do and wouldn't have it any other way. That is one of the things I love most about the Seventh-day Adventist movement. The parents work with the church and the church school to properly raise the children.

Good hope it works for you. There were those within the church that I would not have wanted to influence my kids at a vulnerable age. From the ultra conservative that taught our youngest in cradle roll to the ultra liberal that could not find a sin no matter how hard he tried.

When I happened to observe the cradle roll teacher confining my toddler and telling him the devil had control of him because he was to active,to the pathfinder leader that was okay with everything as long as they loved the Lord. I stayed in cradle roll and assisted in pathfinders after that.

The church school was a better choice than public but they should only reinforce what we as parents instill in our children at home.

My husband and I were responsible for our children,what they learned and how they behaved,not the village

[bonnie]

Quote:

I would hope that sons from good families have help from those families. Unfortunately many that end up on welfare roles come from broken homes and need a little more time, understanding and help.

Maybe then our sons did not have a good home according to you.

If they wanted college they knew we could not pay for it.It was up to them. There was one way to do so. That was work from dawn till dusk and then study and then get up and start the whole routine again for years. A little more time, understanding and help is covered under subsidized housing,medical,food stamps,education and free day care

Something my boys did not get.They however were required to pay for others getting it while struggling to pay for their own.As far as asessts they did not have as much as the welfare recipient the first of every month

Quote:

If I had been born just a few miles south of where I live now, I would have never ever went to college. It is unlikely that I would have even finished high school. Our welfare system is truly a feather in our national hat and something for us to be proud of. It has created more rags-to-riches stories than one can even imagine. God bless America and thank the Lord Jesus Christ for our welfare system.

You weren't tho and it is the career welfare in the US that is the point. You can be as proud as you choose for the entitlement. I am proud and happy my sons did not know they should be entitled to the labor of others and take as long as they choose to go thru school.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Then quit your job and get one where you are paid under the table....That way you no longer have to support all those lazy folks....

Dishonesty seems to be a solution for you.Sorry,it isn't for me.

As I have my own business from home a little tough to quit and be paid under the table.

Many things are done with the tax dollar I would like to see changed. I don't find the biblical admonition to cheat as you seem to.

[Dr. Shane]

Until many of the women on welfare are forced to do so they have little inclination

I don't believe that. That is probably true for those into substance abuse but not the others.

[Dr. Shane]

Maybe then our sons did not have a good home according to you.

[there buster]

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No, struggling students are in a tax exempt bracket.

How reassuring. I'll be certain to tell my children that they didn't have to pay the taxes they had to pay.

[bonnie]

Quote:

No, struggling students are in a tax exempt bracket.

How reassuring. I'll be certain to tell my children that they didn't have to pay the taxes they had to pay.

That is about the silliest thing I have heard yet. Maybe my boys can get their tax money back.

Especially our one son. Did the work of two,sometimes three men

and had to pay a pretty hefty tax. Actually paid more than his father and I some years.

I have to find this utopian world.Or maybe there buster, your children and mine just weren't struggling enough. Maybe had to much.Probably should have had the benefit of taking their time and not be expected to work to hard.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Sons coming from a good home will have a self-confidence in themselves installed by good parents. That helps. They will have good study habits and discipline because of their parents. That helps. They will have self-esteem because of the loving home they come from. That helps. They will have encouragement and recognition from their parents, siblings and extended family. That helps. Their chances of success are much greater because of the home they come from. That helps.

So does housing,food stamps,medical,education,free day care.

A little more time, understanding and help is covered under subsidized housing, medical, food stamps, education and free day care

Something my boys did not get.

[Guest]

I have to find this utopian world.Or maybe there buster, your children and mine just weren't struggling enough. Maybe had to much.Probably should have had the benefit of taking their time and not be expected to work to hard.

They probably just needed to have it real real hard. You know, be humbled.

[Dr. Shane]

If your sons were able to earn enough money to be in a taxable tax bracket while in college, they certainly had some marketable skills already. Those skills are more than most students have. I worked as a cook throughout much of my college years, earning little more than minimum wage.

Currently one has to make more than $13,000 before they pay taxes. If they work a full-time job during the summer for $12/hour they can earn $6,000. A part-time job at $7.50 the rest of the year earns them another $6,000. That is pretty typical for a college student and they wouldn't have to pay any taxes.

However let's say they have some skills and they make $24,000 while in college. They would pay $1,380 taxes. Of course that would be withheld from their payroll - they wouldn't actually write the IRS a check in April. Of that, less than $100 would actually go to the welfare programs that help poor children eat, have housing and get medical attention. They would pay far more in tithe than what they would be providing to welfare.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

My mother was on welfare for probably about ten years before she was able to get her GED, go to a vocational school and become a medical secretary.

Did someone prevent her from getting her GED for ten years?

I think you need to explain that question. It seems icy-cold hearted. I know you are from Minnesota and the lakes freeze over and recently the temperatures have dropped pretty low but you have some explaining to do.

Start now. Right here.

[Dr. Shane]

Being poor wouldn't have been so bad if our family had love but there wasn't much of that either. There was abuse - sexual and physical. Today I see how God uses my upbringing to be sympathetic and helpful to others. It wasn't a waste, it was a training ground.

Since the above information was already provided in this thread, I am really wondering where Bonnie is trying to go with her insensitive question.

[Robert]

Quote:

Then quit your job and get one where you are paid under the table....That way you no longer have to support all those lazy folks....

Dishonesty seems to be a solution for you.Sorry,it isn't for me.

As I have my own business from home a little tough to quit and be paid under the table.

Many things are done with the tax dollar I would like to see changed. I don't find the biblical admonition to cheat as you seem to.

Then you are paying for the deadbeats! Deal with it or do something about it (your talk is cheap)....Cheating on your taxes is one solution, but for now it's paying welfare and abortions....

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: Bonnie

Quote:

My mother was on welfare for probably about ten years before she was able to get her GED, go to a vocational school and become a medical secretary.

Did someone prevent her from getting her GED for ten years?

I think you need to explain that question. It seems icy-cold hearted. I know you are from Minnesota and the lakes freeze over and recently the temperatures have dropped pretty low but you have some explaining to do.

Start now. Right here.

What is to explain. You said your mother cold not get her GED for ten years.

Was she sick? Didn't she know she could get her GED.

Why did it take ten years,nothing cold hearted about it. A question? What caused it to take ten years.

Generally speaking obtaining the GED is the shorter of the requirements in the education process.

Tutoring is available to help those thru to get it.

It was a simple question meaning only what I asked,nothing more or less. You said if the length of time had been shortened she would have had to become a prostitute.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Then you are paying for the deadbeats! Deal with it or do something about it (your talk is cheap)....Cheating on your taxes is one solution, but for now it's paying welfare and abortions....

You certainly seem to like the dishonest approach.

As there is little to be done about taxes short of elections which actually don't do much I guess I am stuck.

Your order to deal with it is as meaningless as the rest of what you say.

What I can do is what I am doing. What you can do is not to engage in any reading or discussion here if you don't like it.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Since the above information was already provided in this thread, I am really wondering where Bonnie is trying to go with her insensitive question. [/quote']

No,you are inserting something in here that I never said or implied.

Simple question.

[Dr. Shane]

What is to explain?

An apology would have been the correct response. You are on thin ice here Bonnie. I am going to let this attack slide because it is against me and I am the moderator. If you attack another member like that you will be done in this forum. You will be banned for life. If you have to ask what was wrong with your question you obviously are incapable of participating in the healthy exchange of ideas that we are trying to have here. Consider yourself warned. Do something like that against another member and you're history.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

What is to explain?

An apology would have been the correct response. You are on thin ice here Bonnie. I am going to let this attack slide because it is against me and I am the moderator. If you attack another member like that you will be done in this forum. You will be banned for life. If you have to ask what was wrong with your question you obviously are incapable of participating in the healthy exchange of ideas that we are trying to have here. Consider yourself warned. Do something like that against another member and you're history.

You obviously took it in a way not meant.For that I do apologize.

It was not an attack,it was a question period,nothing more nothing less.

You stated the amount of time it took,I asked why?

It had nothing to do with attacking you in any way

[bonnie]

Like anyone,we have extended or immediate family members that have been or are in this situation.

Some have never progressed beyond remaining on welfare,not sure if they can still continue receiving. A couple of them have gone on and year by year bettered their lives. One did so rather quickly. In the job she found she barely made ends meet. She kept at it,giving more than a 100%. The other after 7 years has not succeeded as rapidly but is really trying.

The both of them had very little government help because of the state they live in.WY is a state that gives a little and says you best be getting to it.

If you were to ask what took the one so long compared to the one that did so quickly I would not consider it an attack but a question. Simple question.

A third that is in this situation moved to S.Dak as WY did not give her enough. She then moved right across the border to MN where she could get more. Playing fast and lose with the rules she made it thru the now residency requirements and is on MN welfare with little inclination to move on quickly.