The need for the indwelling of the Spirit in the heart...

[Twilight]

By the Spirit"... {DA 671 - 672}

"It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world's Redeemer. It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Christ has given His Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress His own character upon His church.

Of the Spirit Jesus said, "He shall glorify Me." The Saviour came to glorify the Father by the demonstration of His love; so the Spirit was to glorify Christ by revealing His grace to the world. The very image of God is to be reproduced in humanity. The honor of God, the honor of Christ, is involved in the perfection of the character of His people.

"When He [the Spirit of truth] is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment." The preaching of the word will be of no avail without the continual presence and aid of the Holy Spirit. This is the only effectual teacher of divine truth. Only (p.672) when the truth is accompanied to the heart by the Spirit will it quicken the conscience or transform the life. One might be able to present the letter of the word of God, he might be familiar with all its commands and promises; but unless the Holy Spirit sets home the truth, no souls will fall on the Rock and be broken.

No amount of education, no advantages, however great, can make one a channel of light without the co-operation of the Spirit of God. The sowing of the gospel seed will not be a success unless the seed is quickened into life by the dew of heaven. Before one book of the New Testament was written, before one gospel sermon had been preached after Christ's ascension, the Holy Spirit came upon the praying apostles. Then the testimony of their enemies was, "Ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine." Acts 5:28.

Christ has promised the gift of the Holy Spirit to His church, and the promise belongs to us as much as to the first disciples. But like every other promise, it is given on conditions. There are many who believe and profess to claim the Lord's promise; they talk about Christ and about the Holy Spirit, yet receive no benefit. They do not surrender the soul to be guided and controlled by the divine agencies. We cannot use the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is to use us.

Through the Spirit God works in His people "to will and to do of His good pleasure." Phil. 2:13. But many will not submit to this. They want to manage themselves. This is why they do not receive the heavenly gift. Only to those who wait humbly upon God, who watch for His guidance and grace, is the Spirit given. The power of God awaits their demand and reception. This promised blessing, claimed by faith, brings all other blessings in its train. It is given according to the riches of the grace of Christ, and He is ready to supply every soul according to the capacity to receive." {DA 671-672}

--------------

Key points:

Holy Spirit received into the heart.

Unless truth is placed in the heart by the Holy Spirit, it is worthless.

Holy Spirit needs a full surrender.

Only those that humble themselves as spiritually poor before God will receive it.

Your thoughts?

[pnattmbtc]

What does it mean for the Holy Spirit to be received into the heart? Is this speaking of Him residing physically in our chest region?

Here's a comment chosen at random involving the word "heart."

Quote:

Let the prayer go up to God, "Create in me a clean heart" (Psalm 51:10); for a pure, cleansed soul has Christ abiding therein, and out of the abundance of the heart are the issues of life. The human will is to be yielded to Christ. Instead of passing on, closing the heart in selfishness, there is need of opening the heart to the sweet influences of the Spirit of God. Practical religion breathes its fragrance everywhere. It is a savor of life unto life.(God's Amazing Grace, page 295)

Note how the creation of a clean heart is understood. For example "the human will is to be yielded to Christ" as opposed to "closing the heart in selfishness."

That is, the opening of the heart is equivalent to yielding the human will to Christ. The yielding of the human will to Christ is involves the mind.

What does it mean to be pure in heart if not this?:

Quote:

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.(Phil. 4:8)

If we think of the heart as the seat of the emotions, affections, and such, or the kidneys, it doesn't matter if we have confused understandings of human physiology; the important thing to understand is that the Holy Spirit is purifying our thoughts, desires, motives and affections. He does this by revealing the truth to us, as we reveal our will to Christ.

[Twilight]

What does it mean for the Holy Spirit to be received into the heart? Is this speaking of Him residing physically in our chest region?

Here's a comment chosen at random involving the word "heart."

Quote:

Let the prayer go up to God, "Create in me a clean heart" (Psalm 51:10); for a pure, cleansed soul has Christ abiding therein, and out of the abundance of the heart are the issues of life. The human will is to be yielded to Christ. Instead of passing on, closing the heart in selfishness, there is need of opening the heart to the sweet influences of the Spirit of God. Practical religion breathes its fragrance everywhere. It is a savor of life unto life.(God's Amazing Grace, page 295)

Note how the creation of a clean heart is understood. For example "the human will is to be yielded to Christ" as opposed to "closing the heart in selfishness."

That is, the opening of the heart is equivalent to yielding the human will to Christ. The yielding of the human will to Christ is involves the mind.

What does it mean to be pure in heart if not this?:

Quote:

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.(Phil. 4:8)

If we think of the heart as the seat of the emotions, affections, and such, or the kidneys, it doesn't matter if we have confused understandings of human physiology; the important thing to understand is that the Holy Spirit is purifying our thoughts, desires, motives and affections. He does this by revealing the truth to us, as we reveal our will to Christ.

I think we are very close here in concept, if we do not agree about the physiology.

My understanding:

Truth is presented to the mind.

The will is then called into use.

Does it accept or decline?

If if accepts, then the Holy Spirit carries that truth into the heart.

Where it is written into the "desires and motives".

Notice, the law is written by the Holy Spirit on heart and mind.

This indicates two seperate levels of "writing".

There is the "intellectual" writing of the law on the mind. Roman 7:14 - 25.

Then the writing of the law on the heart, the writing into our motives and desires.

This only happens when the indwelling of the Spirit is received into the heart. Romans 8.

When the Spirit moves in, a process happens:

The Spirit renews the heart first.

This is done by a spiritual circumcision, or cutting away of the flesh. Sin dwells in the flesh still even in the born again believer, but it is now no longer in the heart. The flesh is cut away from the heart.

Then the Holy Spirit writes the Law on the new heart.

And then sustains and keeps the new heart.

God bless,

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

The heart, the seat of the affections, must be transformed, the moral nature renewed by grace. {ST, March 3, 1881 par. 4}

[Tom Wetmore]

...Then the Holy Spirit writes the Law on the new heart...

To be consistent with your literalistic approach, does the Holy Spirit inscribe with some writing instrument the Statutes of God in some actual written form on the physical organ that beats in our chest?

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

...Then the Holy Spirit writes the Law on the new heart...

To be consistent with your literalistic approach, does the Holy Spirit inscribe with some writing instrument the Statutes of God in some actual written form on the physical organ that beats in our chest?

How does He do it in the brain Tom?

By re-writing the neural network.

How does He do this in the heart Tom?

By re-writing the neural network.

If you deny that the law is physically written into the heart, then you need to deny it being written in the brain as well, if you are going to be consistent...

Are you challening the idea that God writes the Law in the mind, if not, please re-read your post and replace physical organ that resides in our skull and you will see that the absurdity is not so absurd...

Because to deny one is to deny the other.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

TWILIGHT

HIT wrong button

this is a very good topic to think about

and consider

dgrimm60

It is indeed my friend.

A very good topic. :-)

[Twilight]

HEY ALL

THE mind is the descision making part of the body

so the HOLY SPIRIT needs to be active in that area

of the body

so people can make good choice

dgrimm60

God also works on the heart. :-)

This is not an argument that the mind does not have its place.

This is an argument that the heart also has its place.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

As Paul so clearly pointed out...

Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

The laws get placed in the heart.

The laws get placed in the mind.

Not just the mind...

[Twilight]

The problem with Adventists is that they are great at filling their mind with the word of God.

But they are very ineffective in their witnessing and in their example of Christianity.

Why?

Because the heart, the seat of the emotions also needs dealing with.

But if we walk around only receiving half of what God has promised (the Law in the mind), then we will never finish the gospel commission.

Our heart has to be changed.

--------------

In the New Covenant it was a new "Heart" that is promised...

Not a new mind...

The mind is "renewed", but the heart is the dwelling place of God, the Most Holy Place.

It is a tragedy that so many want to deny they even have a Most Holy Place...

Mark

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

To be consistent with your literalistic approach' date=' does the Holy Spirit inscribe with some writing instrument the Statutes of God in some actual written form on the physical organ that beats in our chest?

[/quote']

How does He do it in the brain Tom?

By re-writing the neural network.

How does He do this in the heart Tom?

By re-writing the neural network.

If you deny that the law is physically written into the heart, then you need to deny it being written in the brain as well, if you are going to be consistent...

Are you challening the idea that God writes the Law in the mind, if not, please re-read your post and replace physical organ that resides in our skull and you will see that the absurdity is not so absurd...

Because to deny one is to deny the other.

Mark :-)

so if im understanding you correctly, you are saying that God literally "re-writes" our hearts and minds...

how does "eating Christs flesh and drinking His blood" play into this? what im also asking with this is just how does "choice" play into it?

[pnattmbtc]

It seems to me that the Holy Spirit presents truth to our minds, and if that truth is accepted, that, of itself, has an impact upon our motives and desires, just like the acceptance of any other truth does. I don't understand the idea that there would be an arbitrary, in between step.

For example, if I believe something, say Hinduism ideas, my believing these ideas causing an impact on my motives and desires. It's not necessary for the Holy Spirit to rewrite my mind, or heart, for this to happen. The re-writing of the mind/heart happens as I choose to believe the Hinduism.

I think the miracle comes into play in the presentation of the spiritual ideas, and the ability to comprehend them. Once we choose to believe these truths we've been enabled to understand, I think, just by the way that we were made, this has an impact on our whole being.

I haven't really thought about this before, so this is a first time effort, but just thinking about it, this is how it seems to me. The natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit. So we need the Holy Spirit for that. But given that, if we choose to believe something, like that Christ gave His life for us, that will have a profound impact upon us, without a special miracle from God, just as believing that someone else gave his life for us would do. Our believing that someone gave their life for us is what causes the impact.

[teresaq]

putting it in my words, what i understand the bible to say is that as i read and study, eat Christs flesh and drink His blood, if im asking for the Holy Spirits guidance He interprets and helps me understand. i dont know if it can be said better than egw says it. just as we eat and the food becomes a part of our body so as we study the bible, and not reject what we are reading but accept it, it becomes a part of me.

the Holy Spirit will walk and talk with me as long as i desire His company, giving me comfort, joy, peace, etc., as long as i accept it. but at any point of the walk i can push Him away.

[Woody]

Yes Teresa ... Thanks. That is easier to understand.

[teresaq]

maybe that is why GODS people are sealed in

their forheads making the right discision

your posts are usually quite short but this one i believe spoke volumes.

there are at several "clinchers" for me that the HS doesnt literally reside in me, nor that my heart, kidneys, nor any other body part, except the mind part of the brain, thinks. but this one seems to be the ultimate "clincher".

only the "mind" is sealed here. nothing else.

[Woody]

HEY ALL

maybe that is why GODS people are sealed in

their forheads

making the right discision

dgrimm60

Way to go dgrimm.

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: dgrimm60

maybe that is why GODS people are sealed in

their forheads making the right discision

your posts are usually quite short but this one i believe spoke volumes.

there are at several "clinchers" for me that the HS doesnt literally reside in me, nor that my heart, kidneys, nor any other body part, except the mind part of the brain, thinks. but this one seems to be the ultimate "clincher".

only the "mind" is sealed here. nothing else.

So those who have the mark of the beast... think with their hands too?

Okay, probably not. But it's just words anyway. It's not as if we can see the Holy Spirit on X-rays or something.

[pnattmbtc]

I liked your post, too, teresaq. It reminded me of the following:

Quote:

When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to be clothed with the garment of His righteousness.(COL 312)

To my way of thinking, the quote could just as well have been (note the last sentence):

Quote:

When we submit ourselves to Christ, the heart is united with His heart, the will is merged in His will, the mind becomes one with His mind, the thoughts are brought into captivity to Him; we live His life. This is what it means to have the Holy Spirit dwelling in the heart.(COL 312)

[Woody]

You mean ... our mind will be one with HIS mind?

[pnattmbtc]

The problem with Adventists is that they are great at filling their mind with the word of God.

But they are very ineffective in their witnessing and in their example of Christianity.

Why?

Because the heart, the seat of the emotions also needs dealing with.

I agree with this. Somewhere the SOP writes that it is sin to consider the cross and not be moved. Yet the cross but little really touches us. We certainly have a heart deficiency in this regard. We also don't consider the feelings of others very much. We certainly need Christ!

Another reason, the chief reason I'd say, that causes our witnessing and example of Christianity to be ineffective is not knowing God. What I mean by this, primarily, is not having a right conception of His character. This is the #1 goal of Satan, to misrepresent the character of God, presenting Him as sever, harsh, and arbitrary, so that we fear Him and secretly hate Him, while with our lips we praise Him.

Once again, we need Christ here too! Christ, who showed us what God was really like, saying, "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father."

[teresaq]

You mean ... our mind will be one with HIS mind?

i believe the HS is able to do that, if we surrender/submit....2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

[cardw]

Quote:

there are at several "clinchers" for me that the HS doesnt literally reside in me, nor that my heart, kidneys, nor any other body part, except the mind part of the brain, thinks. but this one seems to be the ultimate "clincher".

only the "mind" is sealed here. nothing else.

Actually there is quite a bit of evidence that our memories and consciousness reside in the whole body redundantly in a holographic matrix. I think it is likely that the body is simply an interface for a some type of vast field that exists outside time and space. The brain is a great switching station, but it is doubtful that any kind of memory resides in the synapse since it is so short in duration. It appears that the brain stores memory because all the sensory integration occurs within the brain, but it's more likely that memory interfaces with the whole body.

The brain does hardwire patterns of movement for the physical body and it monitors physical systems and keeps them in balance, but the body is programmed to react emotionally to stimulus before it even hits the brain.

This helps us respond to danger in situations that waiting for it to hit the brain would be too slow. That's why you might see some one pull their hand off the hot stove so fast that they hit themselves in the head. That reaction is programmed in from the last time one burned their hand.

I doubt if any physical manifestation of the body is complex enough to hold consciousness and self awareness.

In regards to our spirit, I have found to be far more practical is to open our hearts to each other. This seems fairly strongly implied by Jesus as well. He seemed to emphasize loving one another as being the same as loving him.

[Twilight]

putting it in my words, what i understand the bible to say is that as i read and study, eat Christs flesh and drink His blood, if im asking for the Holy Spirits guidance He interprets and helps me understand. i dont know if it can be said better than egw says it. just as we eat and the food becomes a part of our body so as we study the bible, and not reject what we are reading but accept it, it becomes a part of me.

the Holy Spirit will walk and talk with me as long as i desire His company, giving me comfort, joy, peace, etc., as long as i accept it. but at any point of the walk i can push Him away.

When a new thought or feeling is accepted, there is a physical manifestation.

A neural pathway is formed (scientific fact).

So when God says He writes them in our hearts and minds, He changes us physically.

But this does not negate the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

[Twilight]

When we start taking everything in the bible and insist it can only be translated "figuratively" primarily, then we end up no different than the Catholics or Evolutionists.

We end up denying the following:

1. The Holy Spirit's work of the gift of a new Heart.

2. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the individual.

3. The writing of the law on the heart.

We replace it with:

1. If I read this, then I am a Christian.

This removes all the supernatural agency of the Holy Spirit from the work of changing the man.

And we have "humanism" as the basis for Christianity.

This is seen when the active presence of the Holy Spirit in the individual is denied in the posts above.

When "rationalism" becomes our religion, then the Holy Spirit is moved out.

Consider these texts that deal with the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit:

Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Eze 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them].

Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

Eze 2:2 And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me.

Eze 3:24 Then the spirit entered into me, and set me upon my feet, and spake with me, and said unto me, Go, shut thyself within thine house.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

----------------

Be very very careful that you are not robbed of this precious experience, by 20th Century minds that think they know everything about the mysteries of how Gods works on the Heart and Mind.

And deny the very reality of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by insisting it is all just "figurative".

It is error.

How do we know it is error?

By their fruits you shall know them.

Without the Holy Spirit dwelling within, it is impossible for an individual to walk in Obedience to God.

Humanly impossible.

So the proponents of these theories will not be able to obey God in truth and in spirit.

So the next step is then to deny the need to walk in obedience.

Then the next step is to reject the Sabbath.

Then the next step is to reject Christ.

Why?

Because people are teaching a very subtle salvation by works system, which is:

"What I read makes me a Christian..."

In other words, I just need to fill my mind with "positive" thoughts, or I need to only "memorise scripture", the pharisees where experts at that...

Be very very careful of this deception, many are decieved by this humanism and do not even realise it.

Do not be caught yourself.

We are not humanists who can change themselves, we are Christians who know it is impossible to change oneself into the image of God, and that only He can do that for us, through the indwelling and agency of the Holy Spirit...

Do not confuse "how" God communicates with us by the Holy Spirit, with the Spirit literally dwelling within.

This is what some have done on this thread and others.

They have confused the two, and now deny the reality of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

This is so important a truth, that it will cause you to lose your salvation, if you do not realise your great need for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

You will become one of the 5 virgins without the oil.

Why?

Because you will deny you need "oil" until it is too late...

Mark

[Twilight]

It reminds me of this:

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.