The need for the indwelling of the Spirit in the heart...

[Twilight]

Be filled brothers and sisters...

Act 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Peter needed it, Paul needed it...

Do not be deceived, you need it also...

God bless,

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

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there are at several "clinchers" for me that the HS doesnt literally reside in me, nor that my heart, kidneys, nor any other body part, except the mind part of the brain, thinks. but this one seems to be the ultimate "clincher".

only the "mind" is sealed here. nothing else.

Actually there is quite a bit of evidence that our memories and consciousness reside in the whole body redundantly in a holographic matrix. I think it is likely that the body is simply an interface for a some type of vast field that exists outside time and space. The brain is a great switching station, but it is doubtful that any kind of memory resides in the synapse since it is so short in duration. It appears that the brain stores memory because all the sensory integration occurs within the brain, but it's more likely that memory interfaces with the whole body.

The brain does hardwire patterns of movement for the physical body and it monitors physical systems and keeps them in balance, but the body is programmed to react emotionally to stimulus before it even hits the brain.

This helps us respond to danger in situations that waiting for it to hit the brain would be too slow. That's why you might see some one pull their hand off the hot stove so fast that they hit themselves in the head. That reaction is programmed in from the last time one burned their hand.

I doubt if any physical manifestation of the body is complex enough to hold consciousness and self awareness.

In regards to our spirit, I have found to be far more practical is to open our hearts to each other. This seems fairly strongly implied by Jesus as well. He seemed to emphasize loving one another as being the same as loving him.

Thank you for that interesting post.

[pnattmbtc]

Especially this was interesting:

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I think it is likely that the body is simply an interface for a some type of vast field that exists outside time and space.

[cardw]

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Be very very careful that you are not robbed of this precious experience, by 20th Century minds that think they know everything about the mysteries of how Gods works on the Heart and Mind.

I think you misunderstand humanism. The message is that no one knows these things.

I would say be careful of believing anyone who claims to know how some god works on the heart and mind. By implication you are saying that you know how god works and humanists are very suspicious of that.

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And we have "humanism" as the basis for Christianity.

I actually believe that is true. It is only cultural pressure and fear that keeps Christianity alive. When pressed for any evidence, there is none.

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How do we know it is error?

By their fruits you shall know them.

I actually agree with this. And from observation I see no advantage of being Christian. I see loving and compassionate people who are Christian and I see loving and compassionate people who are not Christians. In fact I think mainline Christianity has a pretty immature view of what is "good."

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Without the Holy Spirit dwelling within, it is impossible for an individual to walk in Obedience to God.

Humanly impossible.

This might have some validity if we could actually point to people who did this. The human impossibility is trying to determine if this even happens. What criteria are we going to use? And even if we had a criteria, how could we even determine if it's happening?

This is basically a futile projection of something that doesn't exist in any kind of reality.

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This is so important a truth, that it will cause you to lose your salvation, if you do not realise your great need for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

While I am not a believer I do have some understanding of the earliest Christians who were actually gnostics. Some of them believed that the god of the OT was an immature illegitimate child of Sophia, the goddess of wisdom. And the OT god created humans to be objects of his wrath. Sophia, the goddess of wisdom, feeling sorry for humans sent Jesus in the form of a spirit to awaken humanity, thereby freeing them from the fear of god's wrath. This also allowed them to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, which dwelled within each person. And in this Kingdom, which was not here or there or something one could find within the world, was the place where salvation, which means healing salve, could be found. Salvation primarily meant healing, not rescue. And healing was important because the resurrection was re-incarnation to many early believers.

This may seem far away from any Christianity you might be familiar with, but the gnostics were the first to have scriptures. You can see many gnostic influences in the NT, particularly in the gospel of John. For some gnostics Jesus didn't actually come in the flesh at all.

What we have now as the NT is an orthodox reaction to these early scriptures which was based on a dualistic view of the world as Plato saw it. That's why we find so many redactions and interpolations within the NT and within the early writings of the Church fathers.

What you have to remember is that story telling was the philosophy and science of that age. They did not have the scientific method, so story telling was not seen a lying, but as a way to provide a mystical window into new ideas. It was only the simple minded and the ignorant that took these stories literally. It would be like taking the Parables that Jesus told as literal people and events and creating books written by the Good Samaritan. The power of story telling is that it can disarm our prejudices because the story helps us walk in another's shoes or takes us to a different world.

What a far more gentle Christianity would have existed if these early wisdom teachers had become the basis for mainline Christianity. Rather than conversion, institution building, and fear, Christianity would have been about healing, awakening, and inner growth. The gnostics were far from perfect, but the core beliefs would never think of using force to create something that can only exist within.

The reason the gnostic tradition was wiped out by force was that Rome was the power behind Christianity as we know it today. It was Imperialism that shaped the doctrines of Christianity and the Bible, not truth or spirit.

That's why the bible is so full of contradiction. It's because all of the different trains of thought were forced together in an attempt to make a unified whole. If you would simply read the history of church sponsored violence, the large variety of alternate scriptures translated, and what the Church fathers were debating, this picture emerges quite clearly.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

putting it in my words, what i understand the bible to say is that as i read and study, eat Christs flesh and drink His blood, if im asking for the Holy Spirits guidance He interprets and helps me understand. i dont know if it can be said better than egw says it. just as we eat and the food becomes a part of our body so as we study the bible, and not reject what we are reading but accept it, it becomes a part of me.

the Holy Spirit will walk and talk with me as long as i desire His company, giving me comfort, joy, peace, etc., as long as i accept it. but at any point of the walk i can push Him away.

When a new thought or feeling is accepted, there is a physical manifestation.

A neural pathway is formed (scientific fact).

good or bad.

[pnattmbtc]

When a new thought or feeling is accepted, there is a physical manifestation.

A neural pathway is formed (scientific fact).

So when God says He writes them in our hearts and minds, He changes us physically.

But this does not negate the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

You say that when a new thought or feeling is accepted, a neural path is formed. Given this is the case, why do you right, in the next sentence, that God changes us physically. You just said this happened, as a scientific fact, when we accept a new thought. So there's no need for God to something special once we've accepted the new thought, as the mechanism is built into us.

The miracle is in the Holy Spirit's enabling us to perceive and understand the thought, so that we can accept it.

This, btw, is what I explained earlier. What you've written here is in perfect harmony with my previous explanation.

Regarding this not negating the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit! By the Holy Spirit's ministry, we begin to think as God thinks, have the same desires He has, have the same motives, have the same affections. He dwells within us.

[Robert]

why do you right [write], in the next sentence, that ...

One correction deserves another... teehe

[teresaq]

bumped for pnat