"war in heaven" - real or metaphorical?

[John317]

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teresaq(sda):i would think anyone who has ever been convicted that something they were doing was wrong, whether we repent or not, would know!!

it is a most uncomfortable feeling and that is only with a limited amount of revealing because God only reveals to us as much as we can take.

Won't there be any sin-hardened people there? What about those who don't care about anything, even their own lives? I know some people who don't want to live for eternity, and they don't care how many people they hurt or destroy, either. Do you think Stalin, Hitler, Lenin, Pol Pot, and Mao cared how many they destroyed?

Why would these kinds of people have a guilty conscience or feel so badly at that time? Is there any evidence that the Holy Spirit will be there to convict them of their sin and cause them to be sorry and repentent? No. On the contrary, they will be full of the devil and out to do his work. Isn't this true?

I would like to know your thoughts about this and to see any evidence you have to show the wicked, including Satan, will be convicted of their sins and wish they hadn't committed them. For sure, Satan and the wicked will be "contrained" to acknowledge the justice of God in their sentence of eternal death, but that doesn't mean that they are sorry for their sins or feel conviction.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE DEVIL IS CONSTRAINED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE JUSTICE OF GOD?

What is "contrained"? It means to "force, compel," according to Mr. Webster. So Ellen White here says that the Devil is forced to acknowedge the justice of God. Who forces him? See GC 671, par. 2.

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

God is in charge of the death of the wicked.

The wicked are responsible for their death, not God. DA 764 makes this clear.

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The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life.

It seems to me that you are confusing two things. It's quite true that the destruction of the wicked is due to their own choice. You can say the same thing about a murderer. It's no arbitrary act on the part of the state that the murderer is put in prison. That is where he deserves to be because of his choices. But the murderer wouldn't be punished apart from the state's decision to investigate, have a trial, convict him, and put him in prison. It would be ridiculous to say that the only just punishment is that which is self-imposed or "organic".

Yes, the wicked certainly do destroy themselves by their choices.

Yet at the same time they are destroyed in the lake of fire by God, as a direct result of the judgment and decision of Christ, a judgment that is not arbitrary but is in accordance to their deeds. It will be an open judgment where all the universe witnesses the evidence, the decision, and the execution of that judgment.

The Bible and SOP say both kinds of destruction occur.

The death of the wicked is "punishment" which "visits the full penalty of the law" and "meets the demands of justice."

Your idea seems to me to say that God and Christ have no right to cause the destruction of Satan. I find that incredible-- if indeed that is what you are saying. You appear to be saying that the destruction of Satan and those who follow him can only occur justly if God is merely a passive onlooker and it is not related in any way with Christ's decision or the examination of their lives during the 1000 years. That would mean the judgment is only for the purpose of confirming that God was right not to raise them in the first resurrection. But Ellen White says plainly that one of the main purposes of the judgment during the 1000 years is for Jesus and the righeous is to study the evidence of people's lives and then to "mete out to the wicked the portion which they MUST suffer," i.e., determine their punishment according to their deeds.

So there is really no contradiction between the statement that "God destroys no man" and saying that "God will destroy the wicked from off the earth."

Why? Because they are talking about two different things. One is saying the wicked are responsible for the destruction of their spiritual life by sowing seeds of evil in their character. The other is saying that as a result of their destroying themselves by sowing seeds of evil, God will execute justice upon the wicked by destroying them from off the earth.

[Guest]

DA 764 flat out says that the destruction of the wicked is not due to an arbitrary act of power on the part of God,

She said it was not an arbitrary act and it's not. She DIDN"T say He doesen't do it. Hence the need for going over the books, so that the punishment is not arbitrary.

-Arbitrary-

Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice.

[John317]

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JOHN3:17: The wicked are not killed in some coincidental way or slain by other wicked people.

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pnattmbtc: Have I said they are?

No, but skyblue has. I thought earlier that you agreed with that. But I am saying it now because it is a popular idea among many who don't believe God destroys them. It seems reasonable in view of the fact that they are evil people and hate each other and try to kill Satan. Why wouldn't they attack each other? It seems they would do terrible things to each other since they don't have the Holy Spirit urging them to do right, and they will be full of the devil.

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JOHN3:17: They suffer according to their sins. This would explain why some die almost immediately and others suffer on much longer.

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pnattmbtc: Agreed.

OK, but why? Who is making it happen this way? For instance, why don't some out of all those hundreds of billions of people commit suicide? Are they unable to die? Why don't they die earlier? Why do they suffer long? What laws of nature or power of God keeps them alive while they are suffering? And is it God's will that they finally die?

[John317]

Originally Posted By: pnat

DA 764 flat out says that the destruction of the wicked is not due to an arbitrary act of power on the part of God,

She said it was not an arbitrary act and it's not. She DIDN"T say He doesen't do it. Hence the need for going over the books, so that the punishment is not arbitrary.

-Arbitrary-

Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle: stopped at the first motel we passed, an arbitrary choice.

Wonderful and extremely important point to note, Richard: The destruction of the wicked is according to God's law and Christ's decision based on the sins of the wicked. That certainly is not arbitrary. Or are we to think God's judgment is arbitrary?

Were His judgments arbitary in the OT? If not, why would they be arbitrary after the 1000 years when God carefully goes over the "books of record" with the righteous. The whole purpose of the judgment during that time is for the whole universe to witness that God's decisions, and the destruction and suffering of the wicked, is righteous and NOT arbitrary. But they are not-- are they?-- going to be watching carefully to make sure the Father and Christ don't do anything to cause the destruction of Satan or the other wicked spirits.

He loves each lost person as if they were His own son. After all, He gave His only Son in order to save them. Are we to think, then, He would arbitrarily punish these people? I don't think so. God is merciful and loving if He is anything. I trust Him. I trust Him absolutely with my mother's life and with my own life and the life of my wife and daughters and son. He will do the just and merciful thing. We can depend on Him.

[Robert]

The destruction of the wicked is according to God's law.

And let's see what that law demands:

Gal 3:13 Christ has made us free from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us.

How was Christ "cursed"?

From the human view we have this [see underlined]:

"He certainly has taken upon himself our suffering and carried our sorrows, but we thought that God had wounded him, beat him, and punished him. [is 53:4]

Did God crucify, beat and punish Christ? Yes, from the human perspective. That's Issiah's point! And in another place we find that God states, "Awake, O sword [of justice], against my shepherd [Christ], against the man who is close to me!" declares the LORD Almighty. "Strike the shepherd...."

So the question remains, "how was Christ cursed" because if we can determine this then we will see how the rejectors of God's grace will meet death?

[Robert]

So the question remains, "how was Christ cursed" because if we can determine this then we will see how the rejectors of God's grace will meet death?

First let me quote Jack Sequeira:

Who made Him [Christ] a curse for us? It wasn’t the devil, because the devil can’t punish sin, he’s a sinner himself. It wasn’t the Jews, even though they demanded God to curse Him. Who then made Him a curse for us? It was the Father. He “spared not His own Son.”

Did God "strike the shepherd? Yes, from human point of view. But did God actually physically touch Christ? Did He beat and crucify him? No! Then how did God make Christ a curse because the same curse will be applied to the rejectors of God's grace?

Go to Luke 22:53 Jesus to the mob in Gethsemane: "Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour--when darkness reigns."

What happened? If we go back a few verses we see Jesus praying: "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me...." What was this cup?

Rev 14:9 "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb."

Now remember as God, Jesus was divine, but as the son of man Christ was "made sin". This doesn't mean Christ sinned, but it does mean that He took our sinful, fallen humanity under the curse. That's why the moment Christ was "born of a woman" that moment He came under the curse. See Gal 4:4

So Christ, as the head of the human race, took our curse, which is "the wine of God's fury...poured full strength into the cup of his wrath."

But again God didn't touch Christ. He released Him to "the curse" where sin pays in death and is manifested in different ways.

[pnattmbtc]

It seems to me that you are confusing two things. It's quite true that the destruction of the wicked is due to their own choice. You can say the same thing about a murderer. It's no arbitrary act on the part of the state that the murderer is put in prison. That is where he deserves to be because of his choices. But the murderer wouldn't be punished apart from the state's decision to investigate, have a trial, convict him, and put him in prison. It would be ridiculous to say that the only just punishment is that which is self-imposed or "organic".

[John317]

"Had he been immediately blotted from existence, they would have served God from fear rather than from love. The influence of the deceiver would not have been fully destroyed, nor would the spirit of rebellion been utterly eradicated. Evil must be permitted to come to maturity. For the good of the entire universe through ceaseless ages, Satan must more fully develop his principles, that his charges against the divine government might be seen in their true light by all created beings, that the justice and mercy of God and the immutablility of His law might forever be placed beyond all question... [Read entire section]....

"In the contest between Christ and Satan, during the Savior's earthly ministry, the character of the great deceiver was unmasked....Now the guilt of Satan stood forth without excuse. He had revealed his true characeter as a liar and a murderer... Satan's lying charges against the divine character and government appeared in their true light... God had manifested His abhorrence of the principles of rebellion. All heaven saw His justice revealed.... The great controversy which had been so long in progress was then decided, and the final eradication of evil was made certain... [After the destruction of the wicked] the whole universe will have become witnesses to the nature and results of sin. AND ITS UTTER EXTERMINATION, WHICH IN THE BEGINNING WOULD HAVE BROUGHT FEAR TO ANGELS AND DISHONOR TO GOD, WILL NOW VINDICATE HIS LOVE AND ESTABLISH HIS HONOR BEFORE THE UNIVERSE of beings who delight to do His will, and in whose heart is His law. Never will evil again be manifest..." GC 501-504.

Ellen White makes the same points in DA 764.

Observe the contrast that Ellen White makes in both DA and GC between the way the universe would have reacted if God had destroyed ["exterminated"] Satan "immediately" "in the beginning" as opposed to the way it will react after Satan has been completely unmasked. "NOW" the universe will approve of God's extermination of evil.

Notice, also, in the above, Ellen White does not say God will never blot Satan from existence; but rather she says that when God does destroy Satan, it will vindicate God's love and His law. Why? Because God has allowed Satan to prove that God is just in His destruction of Satan and all who follow him.

These events must happen this way in order to show the entire universe why the wicked suffer and why they die as they do. The whole universe watches the public trial and "the [public] execution of justice upon the wicked" GC 541. The whole universe will now understand this and there will no longer be any danger that God's moral creation will serve God from fear as they would have if God had destroyed Satan immediately after his rebellion. The entire universe will agree that God was just and right to destroy Satan and everyone who follows him.

"The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and HEAVEN AND EARTH, BEHOLDING, DECLARE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF JEHOVAH." GC 673

[pnattmbtc]

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Notice in the above, Ellen White does not say God will never blot Satan from existence; but rather she says that when God does destroy Satan, it will vindicate God's love and His law. Why? Because God has allowed Satan to prove that God is just in His destruction of Satan and all who follow him.

It's true that if God had destroyed Satan right away, God would have been feared, and served for a wrong reason. However, this is agnostic in terms of whether God would destroy Satan later. That is, it doesn't say He would or wouldn't destroy Satan by some artificial or imposed or arbitrary or non-organic way in the future. It's simply addressing the question of what would have happened had Satan been destroyed immediately.

However, DA 764 does address how Satan would be destroyer. It says that had God *left* Satan to reap the full result of his sin, he would have perished, but it would not have been misunderstood that Satan's death was the inevitable result of sin. This could hardly be taken to mean that had God killed Satan it wouldn't have been misunderstood that Satan's death was the inevitable result of sin, because, in this case, it wouldn't have been. This can only be understood by death coming from sin as a direct consequence of sin, as opposed to an imposed act on the part of God. All of DA 764 can only be understood in this way. Otherwise it's full of contradictions.

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These events must happen this way in order to show the entire universe why the wicked suffer and why they die as they do.

No. DA 764 doesn't allow for this. There's another point in DA 764 which makes this clear. The context of DA 764 is a discussion of what the death of Christ accomplished. One of the things Christ's death accomplished was to make clear how the destruction of he wicked works. He did this by revealing the nature of the death which sin causes. This is why DA 764 exists as a part of the chapter "It Is Finished." Christ's death was needed in order to show the entire universe why the wicked suffer and why they die as they do.

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The whole universe watches the public trial and "the [public] execution of justice upon the wicked" GC 541. The whole universe will now understand this and there will no longer any danger that God's moral creation will serve God from fear as they would have if God had destroyed Satan immediately after his rebellion. The entire universe will agree that God was just and right to destroy Satan and everyone who follows him.

What makes this clear is the cross.

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"The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and HEAVEN AND EARTH, BEHOLDING, DECLARE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF JEHOVAH." GC 673

Again, this is the cross. It's the cross that makes clear what the full penalty of the law is (which is death, the death of the cross, to be specific), and what the demands of justice are.

[Robert]

"The full penalty of the law has been visited; the demands of justice have been met; and HEAVEN AND EARTH, BEHOLDING, DECLARE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF JEHOVAH." GC 673

Again, the justice of the law is death...eternal death. No resurrection...not torture.

At this point I give up. Those who think God kills will continue to do so....Those who don't will continue to do so. Both sides have good arguments, but of course I think those arguing against a God who kills have a better argument. We haven't changed your mind and we, yours....

[John317]

Originally Posted By: John317

It seems to me that you are confusing two things. It's quite true that the destruction of the wicked is due to their own choice. You can say the same thing about a murderer. It's no arbitrary act on the part of the state that the murderer is put in prison. That is where he deserves to be because of his choices. But the murderer wouldn't be punished apart from the state's decision to investigate, have a trial, convict him, and put him in prison. It would be ridiculous to say that the only just punishment is that which is self-imposed or "organic".

This isn't what DA 764 is talking about. It is contrasting the wicked's destruction as being due to something God does to them as opposed to being the result of their own choice. She couldn't have made this clearer. She repeated this thought 9 or 10 times.

When Ellen White says that "this is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God," she is not denying that it is an act of power on the part of God. Her point is that it is not arbitrary. It will be according to "strict justice" after careful examination of the record of the lives of the wicked. The rejectors of His mercy are reaping what they have sown. "It is in mercy to the universe that God will finally destroy the rejecters of His grace." GC 543. "They receive the results of their own choice." Who do they receive it from? Answer: God. "THE POWER AND AUTHORITY OF THE DIVINE GOVERNMENT WILL BE EMPLOYED TO PUT DOWN REBELLION; yet all the manifestations of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE will be perfectly consistent with the character of God as a merciful, long-suffering, benevolent being." GC 541.

Here's DA 764, which is basically the same as GC 498-504:

"At the beginning of the great controversy, the angels did not understand this. Had Satan and his host been left to reap the full result of their sin, they would have perished; but it would not have been apparent to heavenly beings that this was the inevitable result of sin. A doubt of God's goodness would have remianed in their minds as evil seed, to produce its deadly fruit of sin and woe.

BUT NOT SO WHEN THE GREAT CONTROVERSY SHALL BE ENDED. THEN, the plan of redemption having been completed, the character of God is revealed to all created intelligences. The precepts of His law are seen to be perfect and immutable. Then sin has made manifest its nature, Satan his character. THEN THE EXTERMINATION OF SIN [and Satan] WILL VINDICATE GOD'S LOVE AND ESTABLISH HIS HONOR BEFORE THE UNIVERSE of beings who delight to do His will, and in whose heart is His law."

See paragraph 4 where she refers to the "the destruction of sin and Satan" which was made certain at the cross. Of course the "extermination of sin" means the extermination/ destruction of Satan and all who follow him.

"Fire descends from Heaven, and unites with the fire in the earth, and aids in the general conflagration [big fire]..." 3 SG 87

In EW 52, it says that "the wrath of God and the Lamb CAUSES the destruction and death of the wicked."

[Lutz13]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

I agree. No one is really dead until they die the second death. The first death is a sleep.

sky

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Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Another example Laval, of how you twist the Bible. It doesn't say, "the rest of the sleeping" lived not again...these people are DEAD....just as DEAD as those who die the 2nd Death.... When one heads down the road you have, away from believing the truth and accepting and believing what Fred Wright taught, there is no telling where one will end up.

Yes, I am clearly twisting scripture...Jesus must have never said the following:

"But now, as to whether the dead will be raised -- even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, he referred to the Lord as 'the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. So He is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to Him."(Luke 20:37-38)

"Then He said, Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but now I will go and wake him up..."(John 11:11)

To God all are asleep and are not dead. If you think I am proud and arrogant for trying to understand Gods perspective which He clearly encourages us to understand, then so be it. God wants us to speak with Him as a friend does. He also wants us to understand Him like a friend.

[Robert]

Again, this is the cross. It's the cross that makes clear what the full penalty of the law is (which is death, the death of the cross, to be specific), and what the demands of justice are.

Well, I haven't given up just yet....The 2nd death is not cooking in the lake of fire or being crucified on a wooden cross. The 2nd death is God abandoning the sinner and letting him reap the consequences of his own actions....In Christ's case it was done by cruel men backed by Satan. But what really caused Christ to die was His father's separation. This caused more pain then what the Romans did to Christ. I got that from Ellen....I can't prove it, but it sounds reasonable

[John317]

It's an important and very interesting question, anyway, no matter how we see it. The main thing is that Satan and sin and all who follow him will eventually be destroyed. The universe will be all harmony and peace again.

This is one of several areas of doctrine that I don't believe is necessary for salvation for everyone to see eye to eye on. Another one is the Trinity, and still another are all the details related to the doctrine of righteousness by faith. People are going to see some of these things differently than others, and that's OK. The main thing is to be sincerely and honestly searching for truth, and to treat others with love as Christ did.

[Robert]

The main thing is that Satan and sin and all who follow him will eventually be destroyed. The universe will be all harmony and peace again.

True....

[John317]

Both are right. From God's viewpoint, all the righteous are alive to Him; but at the same time, God Himself says that people die. He told Adam he would die and return to the dust, and then the Bible says sure enough, Adam died. But because of Christ, that death is only a sleep, in view of the resurrection from the dead.

[John317]

Satan in heaven had hated Christ for His position in the courts of God. He hated Him the more when he himself was dethroned. He hated Him who pledged Himself to redeem a race of sinners. Yet into the world where Satan claimed dominion God permitted His Son to come, a helpless babe, subject to the weakness of humanity. He permitted Him to meet life's peril in common with every human soul, to fight the battle as every child of humanity must fight it, at the risk of failure and eternal loss. {DA 49.1}

The heart of the human father yearns over his son. He looks into the face of his little child, and trembles at the thought of life's peril. He longs to shield his dear one from Satan's power, to hold him back from temptation and conflict. To meet a bitterer conflict and a more fearful risk, God gave His only-begotten Son, that the path of life might be made sure for our little ones. "Herein is love." Wonder, O heavens! and be astonished, O earth! {DA 49.2}

Never can the cost of our redemption be realized until the redeemed shall stand with the Redeemer before the throne of God. Then as the glories of the eternal home burst upon our enraptured senses we shall remember that Jesus left all this for us, that He not only became an exile from the heavenly courts, but for us took the risk of failure and eternal loss. Then we shall cast our crowns at His feet, and raise the song, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing." Rev. 5:12. {DA 131.2}

Remember that Christ risked all. For our redemption, heaven itself was imperiled. At the foot of the cross, remembering that for one sinner Christ would have laid down His life, you may estimate the value of a soul.{COL 196.4}

Sorrow filled heaven, as it was realized that man was lost and that world which God had created was to be filled with mortals doomed to misery, sickness, and death, and there was no way of escape for the offender. The whole family of Adam must die. I saw the lovely Jesus and beheld an expression of sympathy and sorrow upon His countenance. Soon I saw Him approach the exceeding bright light which enshrouded the Father. Said my accompanying angel, He is in close converse with His Father. The anxiety of the angels seemed to be intense while Jesus was communing with His Father. Three times He was shut in by the glorious light about the Father, and the third time He came out from the Father, His person could be seen. His countenance was calm, free from all perplexity and doubt, and shone with benevolence and loveliness, such as words cannot express. {SR 42.1} ...

Said the angel, "Think ye that the Father yielded up His dearly beloved Son without a struggle? No, no. It was even a struggle with the God of heaven, whether to let guilty man perish, or to give His beloved Son to die for him." {SR 45.1}

==================================

I apologize for not getting to the above very important quotes earlier. I look forward to writing about them this week-end. They deserve serious and complete answers.

[pnattmbtc]

When Ellen White says that "this is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God," she is not denying that it is an act of power on the part of God. Her point is that it is not arbitrary.

[skyblue888]

Excellent points again.

[pnattmbtc]

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JOHN3:17: The wicked are not killed in some coincidental way or slain by other wicked people.

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pnattmbtc: Have I said they are?

No, but skyblue has.

That doesn't matter. You're responding to me.

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I thought earlier that you agreed with that.

No. I haven't said anything one way or the other regarding this.

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But I am saying it now because it is a popular idea among many who don't believe God destroys them.

I've said before, and I know sky has agreed with this, that God does destroy them, but the question is how God destroys. So neither sky nor I are disagreeing that God destroys the wicked, but we disagree that God does so arbitrarily, or artificially, or an imposed fashion, or by using force.

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It seems reasonable in view of the fact that they are evil people and hate each other and try to kill Satan. Why wouldn't they attack each other? It seems they would do terrible things to each other since they don't have the Holy Spirit urging them to do right, and they will be full of the devil.

One would expect that there would be strife among the wicked, that's true.

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JOHN3:17: They suffer according to their sins. This would explain why some die almost immediately and others suffer on much longer.

pnattmbtc: Agreed.

J:OK, but why? Who is making it happen this way?

The wicked. They chose sin, the root of which is selfishness, and selfishness can do no other than lead to suffering, misery and death.

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For instance, why don't some out of all those hundreds of billions of people commit suicide? Are they unable to die? Why don't they die earlier?

Earlier than what?

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Why do they suffer long?

They suffer according to their sin, as it is revealed to them.

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What laws of nature or power of God keeps them alive while they are suffering?

The usual ones.

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And is it God's will that they finally die?

No. They die as a result of their own choice, which is contrary to the will of God.

[pnattmbtc]

Wonderful and extremely important point to note, Richard: The destruction of the wicked is according to God's law and Christ's decision based on the sins of the wicked. That certainly is not arbitrary.

[pnattmbtc]

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John317, how was heaven imperiled?

I've asked this of John317 and Richard over a dozen times now. I don't think it's been responded to.

A response would be nice.

[BobRyan]

The war of ideas was "real" and resulted in 1/3 of the angels "choosing" to side with Lucifer.

The war of active battle -- force against force -- strength of against strength -- was then waged by the two sides. And the evil angels lost that war.

They were not "voted out"

They were not "debated out"

They were not "tempted to leave"

They were not "tricked" to leave.

They were "cast out" - forcibly -- by means of force - by means of actual war.

How instructive then the statement of Christ on that subject - and the revelation that was given to Ellen White regarding Christ's words at that point.

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Like the apostles, the seventy had received supernatural endowments as a seal of their mission. When their work was completed, they returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name." Jesus answered, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." {DA 490.1}

The scenes of the past and the future were presented to the mind of Jesus. He beheld Lucifer as he was first cast out from the heavenly places. He looked forward to the scenes of His own agony, when before all the worlds the character of the deceiver should be unveiled. He heard the cry, "It is finished" (John 19:30), announcing that the redemption of the lost race was forever made certain, that heaven was made eternally secure against the accusations, the deceptions, the pretensions, that Satan would instigate. {DA 490.2}

Beyond the cross of Calvary, with its agony and shame, Jesus looked forward to the great final day, when the prince of the power of the air will meet his destruction in the earth so long marred by his rebellion. Jesus beheld the work of evil forever ended, and the peace of God filling heaven and earth. {DA 490.3}

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: John317

Wonderful and extremely important point to note, Richard: The destruction of the wicked is according to God's law and Christ's decision based on the sins of the wicked. That certainly is not arbitrary.

As you perceive it, it is arbitrary.