Was the Earth always on this axis?

[Tallmark]

Apparently the flood threw everything out of whack. Some believe that it was caused by Mars getting too close to the earth. Before then, a year was 360 days, and there was no tilt.

[Bravus]

Good question, Don. I think to some extent it might, but the amount of sunlight coming in is constant, so there are limits - and the seasons would be much more extreme. Think Alaska or Norway in winter and hotter than Central Australia in summer...

The way the earth is now is actually *extremely* well adapted for life. I think God knows that, which is why I think it was this way from the start. A vertical axis requires a heap of ad hoc tweaks to work at all, while 23 degrees works great.

Stan, nope, we'd still be having time zones - that's about the earth's daily rotation on its axis, not yearly rotation around the sun...

Tallmark... where in the Bible do we find any of that stuff? The creation story is specific enough to mention when plants are made but the same book of the Bible doesn't bother to mention a close call with Mars?

[Dr. Shane]

There is also the role of the firmament - whatever that was. Some creationists have made a vapor-type of canopy and played with computer models to see what that would do. There is speculation that such a canopy would have evened out temperatures across the globe.

[Bravus]

That would be what I meant by 'ad hoc tweaks'.

It's creating a solution to a non-problem: we have no evidence at all, Biblical or otherwise, that the axis was ever perpendicular to the plane of the ecliptic ('upright') and there's no reason to assume it was except perhaps our innate sense of neatness. So we assume it was, for no reason, then have to solve the problem we just created.

[Dr. Shane]

I have never come across this idea of the flood causing the Earth's axis to tilt in any of what I have seen. I have heard it mentioned before in Adventist circles but only by lay people. Doing a Google search I did find these links.

The Pre-Flood 360 Day Calendar & the Second Coming

The Hydroplate Theory: An Overview

I don't know how widely held these theories are within creationist circles. As I mentioned, I haven't seen them in print in any of the published material I have read.

[TreeOfLife]

:)

Dear Alex,

I very much commend you on your interest in this area of research! Congratulations!

Re the ‘axis of the earth’ and ‘axis shift…’

As for me, I have found it extremely fruitful and satisfying to study into this line of research over the years of my lifetime. Perhaps I may suggest some of my most favorite authors and books for further stimulating thought and enlightenment?:

• 1. Earth in Upheaval by Immanuel Velikovsky

  2. Pole Shift by John White

  3. Worlds in Collision by Immanuel Velikovsky

I think that if you were to read those books and in that order you’d be getting the most satisfaction out of them. And in my book that is no small understatement…!

Please enjoy!

……

Re the word ‘firmament’ and more…

As to Genesis 1, verses 3 and 6 - and these thoughts of mine are not based on any of the above references - I believe we are all too much underestimating the scope of what the creation there recorded was all about. I believe that I can make the most out of the creation story by recognizing that verse 3 pertains to the creation of all electro-magnetic radiation, that is, where ‘light,’ as we generally think of it, is merely that part of the spectrum that happens to be visible to the eyes of men, and that verse 6 pertains to the precipitation of a liquid phase out of an initially all steam and rapidly expanding universe that was, accordingly, also very rapidly cooling down. That is, the ‘firmament’ represent the boundary layer between the gaseous phase and between the liquid phase, more familiar perhaps to most of us in terms of the word ‘surface’ as in ‘the surface of the water…’

Backing up to verse 1, that is Genesis 1:1, and considering more closely the real essence of the Hebrew words corresponding to ‘heaven’ and ‘earth,’ I believe I am getting closest to the truth of the matter by looking at the Hebrew word for ‘heaven,’ not as ‘shamajim’ but as ‘shemim,’ that is, the masculine plural of the singular ‘shem’ meaning ‘name, title, word…,’ that is, an abstract symbol representing something real in the physical world of substance. That is, to me, the first thing God created, ‘heaven,’ was the plan of action before the action itself, not excluding the claiming of title and copyrights to the results of all of that. The ‘earth’ then, being referenced in Genesis 1:1, would be that something which is nothing less than the medium within which the waves of electro-magnetism travel. An old, somewhat obsolete, term for that medium, that substance, that ‘earth’ would be ‘the ether.’ I believe the most advanced science today, within this area of research, have revived these ideas of old, but that they are using another word than ‘ether’ to describe that very solid medium within which electromagnetic particles are traveling.

As you can see, it follows that on the third day of creation a third phase appeared, solids, and as soon as solids could and did exist, then the essence of life could also be brought into existence, that is, such matter, such solids, as DNA, amino acids, proteins, fats, carbohydrates, and all such other fundamental building blocks of life as are necessary for every living cell and for grass, herbs, and trees to come into being (verse 11.)

Now, that having been said, what is more natural than for the further precipitation of matter to produce ever larger bodies of solids, that is, such as are being described by the words ‘the greater light… the lesser light… [and] the stars…’ (verse 16.)

Praise the Lord, him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters, Yahweh Elohim, our Creator, owner, Savior, and Redeemer!

Peace to all our families and homes,

Tree of Life ©

[phkrause]

So Co from this info it kind of says to me at least that the flood could've put the axis of the earth on a tilt. Since I would guess that when waters came from under the earth they were probably quite a number of earthquakes and maybe as big or bigger that 8.8?

pk

[Ellen]

Two thoughts. Even if a huge astroid/meteor hit the earth it wouldn't cause the sudden freezing at the poles that fast that a dinosaur would still have uneaten food in his mouth.

Second, when the earthquake his Chile it was reported that the tilt of the earth was affected. hhhmmmmm

[Ellen]

the earthquake "hit" Chile. see above

[scripturewisdom]

ever think that maybe it was God's hand and not an asteroid?? :smile:

[phkrause]

I know I have no problem believing it wasn't an asteroid.

pk

[Tom Wetmore]

Or that God tossed the asteroid at the earth...

[Bravus]

I still have no clue why anyone is assuming it was ever *not* tilted. The tilt sets this planet up perfectly for life, as so many other features of the planet, the solar system and the universe do. Don't you think God knows that, and created it so it would work right from the start? Why on earth would he first create a planet with an axis at right angles to the plane of the ecliptic, then add a 'firmament' to make it sort of work... then later on decide 'oh, maybe I should have tilted it after all'? Heaps of unbiblical speculation, when both Scripture and Occam's Razor suggest that the best explanation is that earth *was* always tilted.

[Aliensanctuary]

Perhaps the redistribution of water on the Earth during the Deluge affected its rotational momentum and length of day, or increased its wobble. Velikovsky, I believe, claimed that the floodwater came from an outside source, Mars.

I know the basic theory has been more or less debunked, but I can still picture the pre-flood Earth surrounded by a layer of water sandwiched between two concentric spherical force fields. The pressure exerted on the water would have been so great that it would have remained a transparent liquid, even in the frigid temperatures of space. There would have to be holes in the set up for ventilation to occur, I suppose, otherwise, the surface of the planet might have been more like the inside of an oven. Once the force fields were turned off or otherwise degraded, water would tend to cascade from the sky in great sheets like waterfalls as it was released.

The force-field idea can also explain the walls of water on either side of them as hundreds of thousands of people on foot crossed a sea while walking on dry land.

All of the "miracles" in the Bible are likely demonstrations of a technology we are unfamiliar with. We could read that as "alien" technology, produced by beings not from this world whom humans have turned into Gods.