Are we being too judgmental? If so, why?

[abelisle]

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/339409.html#Post339409

Alex

[GreatLakesGramma]

Who's "we"? Yourself? And who else?

[abelisle]

Yes, I include myself in the "we".

Did you read the link? I thought it was very judgmental.

That's why I framed the question as I did and also to provide the other poster with dual access, here in Townhall and the Olympics forum.

Alex

[GreatLakesGramma]

Yes, I read the link, and yes, you were judgmental. The "other poster" didn't insert a single word of his own into his post about competition, but when it was commented on, said it was for perspective. How one would interpret that depends more on the reader than the poster.

Perspective is a very good thing. Perspective generally means, "while we're getting excited about this, let's not get too carried away and forget what's most important."

I know all about that. When I work out, I compete only against myself. I want to be the healthiest and fittest I can achieve, without crowding out what's most important. But being a goal-oriented person, there was a time I lost sight of the most important goal and became obsessed with my fitness goals. That obsession led to injury that probably put my goals permanently out of reach. I thank God for that, because otherwise, I may have never regained my perspective.

So perspective is a wonderful thing, and I felt myself blessed as I read the quoted material posted by the other poster, and reminded of my REAL goal, the only goal worth centering one's life on. I pictured myself reaching for that heavenly goal, just as the Olympic athletes are reaching for their goals. It was like Paul's comparison of the Christian race with the Olympics of his own day. If I were actually watching the Olympics, it might have increased my enjoyment of them, as I compared their efforts with the efforts I also must make for my own goal. And while cheering them on, I would be also cheering myself and my fellow Christians on in our own races.

[abelisle]

Excuse me but when the other poster declared competition to be a sin and even an abomination, don't you think that's being judgmental? I first thought the statement to be a SOP quote but it was the poster's personal opinion.

Alex

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Is an opinion considered to be "judgement"?

[Bravus]

Why judgemental? 'Cos it allows us to feel better than other people... Not noble, but human...

[karl]

Why judgemental? 'Cos it allows us to feel better than other people... Not noble, but human...

You mean, like, more sophisticated than those doofus legislators in South Dakota who decided it has not been proven that Gorebal warming is a man-made phenomenon?

[GreatLakesGramma]

Excuse me but when the other poster declared competition to be a sin and even an abomination, don't you think that's being judgmental? I first thought the statement to be a SOP quote but it was the poster's personal opinion.

Alex

OK, I read it again. You're right, he was speaking his own words there. But he was only speaking his own opinion. Just as you started this thread, he said "we." Nowhere did he ever say "how can you...?" or "you are betraying."

Judgmental people are ones who point their fingers at other people. He didn't. He spoke completely in a corporate sense, expressing his feelings of what we as Adventists should be doing or not doing. Nowhere did he say anything about the character, spirituality, or condition of those who were discussing the games, or of anyone who disagrees with his stated conviction.

[abelisle]

I think we're looking at different things but with the same critical lens. For me the focus is on "competition" not character attacks or slander.

I felt that we shouldn't condemn (be judgmental) all forms of competition as sinful and definitely not as abominations! The poster characterized "competition" as a terrible thing. I then posted that quote from Ryan Hall to demonstrate that an elite competitor can be fully in tune with and praising their Lord while competing.

Alex

[GreatLakesGramma]

So if a person is convicted that a certain activity is sinful, he's being judgmental? Sorry, I don't agree with your definition of judgmental. We HAVE to make judgments about what is right and wrong. There is no choice there. But when Jesus said we are not to judge, He was talking only about judging people - their spirituality and motivations.

You are judging his right to have convictions differing from someone else's, and to express them publicly, and that is way out of line.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think competition is wrong. Someone is always a loser.

[olger]

Is an opinion considered to be "judgement"?

X2

g

[GreatLakesGramma]

Pam, God has made it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt, that for me, competition is absolutely, totally, irrevocably out of the question. Period. It took many years for me to realize that it doesn't affect everyone the same as it does me, and even longer for me to understand why it affected me the way it did, since I am not a competitive person at all. But God definitely told me that so long as I played competitive games, it would be impossible for Him to make my character fit for heaven. I understood right away that He was telling the truth, and how it affected my character to play competitive games, but it took a long time to fully understand why.

People like Alex have been critical of my position through the years, and some have ridiculed and even condemned. A lot of people seem to think that if somebody has a different conviction on anything than they do, that person is automatically passing judgment on them for living differently. But they see only how things affect themselves, and often don't believe they could affect anyone else differently. I hope they are more open to the Holy Spirit's work in their own lives than they are to His work in others' lives.

[olger]

Dr. Lael Caesar says that competition is a result of sin, and a shadow of Lucifer.

g

[whbae]

Many of us are judgemental because we live in a boundary established by some thing.

This something may mean our own family, our own nation or our own denomination. Nothing wrong with living in a boundary. When God led out Israelites He established the boundary(Leviticus) such you should not mary pagans, do not eat certain things and take care of your own brothers, etc. In olden days when some American missionaries went to the third world countries they became judgemental and viewes the natives are doing every thing wrong according to the AMERICAN STANDARD. It is very easy to become judgemental even without knowing one is being judgemntal. Any thing wrong with being judgemental? I do not know.

In our daily life one has to be judgemental in social affairs or business dealings to survive.I guess this "judgemental thing" is open for discussion.

Won

[phkrause]

So if a person is convicted that a certain activity is sinful, he's being judgmental? Sorry, I don't agree with your definition of judgmental. We HAVE to make judgments about what is right and wrong. There is no choice there. But when Jesus said we are not to judge, He was talking only about judging people - their spirituality and motivations.

You are judging his right to have convictions differing from someone else's, and to express them publicly, and that is way out of line.

Having as of yet not read this link Alex, and I will when I get there. I'm inclinded to agree with GLG on this right now. When I read the link I will let you know more closely my feeling on this subject.

pk

[abelisle]

So when a poster writes in a sports thread (Winter Olympics) and expresses their conviction that competition is both sinful and an abomination leading to another conviction that we shouldn't even watch the Olympics, would you say that they aren't being judgmental? Just expressing a strongly stated personal opinion?

So GLG, if that's your working definition, so be it.

I, in turn, wanted to expose this person to a Christian athlete/Olympian who feels that when he engages in competition, this enhances his spiritual experience.

I respect the opinions of those who are against competition. Just please respect my opinion that competition is NOT a sin and/or abomination.

Your brother in Christ

Alex

[GreatLakesGramma]

It is, Alex. I don't offer my opinions on potentially controversial issues unless asked, but there was a time, before I understood that things affected other people much differently than they did me, that I might have felt a need to say something out of concern for someone else who seemed to be heading toward the same danger God rescued me from. Please try to see it that way when someone posts something like that, unless they specifically make personal references to other posters involved in the discussion.

I do respect your opinion, on competition and any other issue, and I hope the person who posted in the other thread does also, though he gave no real indication either way. (I'm not using his name, because I forgot who it is, and I don't want to take the time to go back there again.) We are all at different places in our spiritual growth, with different weaknesses, different needs, and differing understanding. God works with each of us where we most need it at any given time. We have to respect God's work in others, however little it resembles our own experiences and convictions. He does no cookie cutter, one size fits all work.

[phkrause]

So when a poster writes in a sports thread (Winter Olympics) and expresses their conviction that competition is both sinful and an abomination leading to another conviction that we shouldn't even watch the Olympics, would you say that they aren't being judgmental? Just expressing a strongly stated personal opinion?

So GLG, if that's your working definition, so be it.

I, in turn, wanted to expose this person to a Christian athlete/Olympian who feels that when he engages in competition, this enhances his spiritual experience.

I respect the opinions of those who are against competition. Just please respect my opinion that competition is NOT a sin and/or abomination.

Your brother in Christ

Alex

Alex I ave not yet read the statement, but I do agree with you that competition is not a sen. Its funny how the first thing people mention when competition is mentioned is sports, but yet nothing is said at all about all the musical competition that we have among our young children and our youth. No one can tell me that they don't get competitive. I've seen some pretty mean fights, and not just the kids but the parents. I think that our schools have done a great job with competitive sports, in all areas.

pk

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I don't think competition is a sin, but I *do* think it begets hurt feelings and inner turmoil. Someone always has to lose. And who wants to be a loser? Competition is also addictive.

And yes, musical competition can be just as grueling as sports. So can spelling bees. I guess I just don't like to see someone do their absolute best and end up a loser.

[olger]

sen?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

sen?

you know, those licorice flavored Sen-sens??

[olger]

[GreatLakesGramma]

I don't think competition is a sin, but I *do* think it begets hurt feelings and inner turmoil. Someone always has to lose. And who wants to be a loser? Competition is also addictive.

And yes, musical competition can be just as grueling as sports. So can spelling bees. I guess I just don't like to see someone do their absolute best and end up a loser.

I agree.