Social Justice

[Stan]

How active should Adventists be in Social Justice? It is a dept in some Churches.

Please do not turn this political, leave the words Democrat or Republican, Whigs and Tory, left or right out of the responses.

[karl]

The Belmont Center for Business Ethics presents John Sage, CEO, President and Co-Founder of Pura Vida Coffee, for a discussion of ethics in business, Wednesday, Sept. 28. The event is open to the public and media. Members of the Nashville business community are especially encouraged to attend and hear Sage discuss a unique approach to integrating capitalism as an agent for compassion, and 'funding agent' to support social outcomes.

Sage's talk is titled Tough Minded and Tender Hearted: Capitalism as an Engine for Social Change. He will speak at 5 p.m., following a 4:30 p.m. reception. The location for the Center for Ethics event is the Curb Event Center.

Sage is co-founder of Pura Vida Coffee, which is 100 percent owned by a nonprofit, religious organization dedicated to helping at-risk children and families in coffee-growing countries. Pura Vida sells Fair Trade, organic coffee throughout the United States and uses its resources for charitable purposes. The co-founders have created a model with the goal to inspire a new generation of consumers and business leaders who believe in and will practice capitalism as an engine for social good. The management team strives to utilize every facet of Pura Vida Coffee - capital structure, governance, employee recruitment, product sourcing, marketing and sales - to achieve social outcomes. They believe they can demonstrate that the worlds of business and charity can not only co-exist, but can thrive on one another.

[phkrause]

How active should Adventists be in Social Justice? It is a dept in some Churches.

Please do not turn this political, leave the words Democrat or Republican, Whigs and Tory, left or right out of the responses.

Very good question Stan. I think part of me says yes, the other part is not sure how far. Could you give an example of the social justice you are meaning?

pk

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

How active should Adventists be in Social Justice? It is a dept in some Churches.

Please do not turn this political, leave the words Democrat or Republican, Whigs and Tory, left or right out of the responses.

Very good question Stan. I think part of me says yes, the other part is not sure how far. Could you give an example of the social justice you are meaning?

pk

Does social justice mean "equal opportunity" or "equal outcome"

[phkrause]

Interesting thought Bonnie. (And by the way its good to see you back. Not sure you saw my other post in the other thread.)

pk

[bonnie]

Interesting thought Bonnie. (And by the way its good to see you back. Not sure you saw my other post in the other thread.)

pk

Thanks and no I didn't see the post. It seems many times by "social justice" equal outcomes is what it means. Not possible

[Esther123]

Actually, social justice should start in our churches....We should treat each other as God wants us to treat each other and we find that out by studying the scripture.

I know a woman in the great lakes area that was assaulted by a

Seventh Day Adventist Minister....there was a witness...The woman went to conference leaders and was threatened by them and told the minister did nothing wrong and they were not going to do anything about it! Talk about haughty arrogance!

They wanted her to meet with her attacker and discuss her problem.....She refused. This woman was a leader in her own church for years, spoke at Campmeetings, Women's Ministries, and was very active witnessing in her church and all through her life...she still does witness. She no longer attends that church. I find it very interesting that she stated that after she left that church that only one member came to her and asked where she was and why she no longer attended that church. If she ran into members, they stated they missed her greatly, yet none of them ever contacted her....so much for the loving church family. They did ask on a number of occasions why she had left the SDA church....She stated she was still a member of the SDA church but was attending

elsewhere. Where do you supposed those rumors came from???

It appears that the leadership is very much into "circling the wagons" to protect there "own". A lot of politics is in that conference. They wanted her to pray about it and have her tell him "I forgive you" for what you refuse to acknowledge and just go on as if nothing happened...Some ministers in leadership forget that they are there to promote God's work and should be acting as Jesus would towards His children. There is way too much politics and unChristlike maneuvering in the SDA leadership in some places.

The district court judge gave this woman a personal protection order and even renewed it for a 2nd year...a 2nd year is almost unheard of I hear...

This is not the only incidence: another involves a child in church school hit with an object thrown by his SDA teacher. The district leader, an SDA Minister, did nothing. The mother refused to let it drop...and is proceeding with legal action. The conference just moved the teacher on to another area of the state!!! She should have been let go. Physical violence against a student should never be tolerated.

Another incidence is of a local elder raping his stepdaughter. Members and those in the community know what he did, yet he continues to be voted in as head elder each year....

Yet another instance is a SDA man who was a leader in his church and had an affair with a college girl and left his wife to go a-whoring for a few years...eventually came back to his wife and is now a head elder in his church and leader of the pathfinders. Would you want your daughter to be in this Pathfinder Club? I find this unacceptable. So do many other women. It was kept quite hush-hush....he is also active at the conference level.

Social justice is not there for many women and students (SDA in SDA schools) around the USA. Our church has no right to speak out against Catholics and their priests when we are guilty of the same sins....the SDA church has sexual and violent issues as well as the Catholic church....We are worse then the Catholics as we state we believe live by the Bible....

More and more SDA women are becoming vocal about what has happened to them. They were made to feel it was not Christlike to speak up and get justice. Pressure is exerted by the church leaders and SDA ministers.

These women need to be heard....Our churches and schools cannot move forward if we do not hear from those assaulted and violated by SDA ministers, teachers and elected church leaders. This is a sin that needs our attention. As more of these violated ones get vocal and others outside our walls hear, they may be the ones to call for justice...they may force SDAs to face up to the great cover-up in our church: violence and assaults against woman and children.

There are many wounded ones waiting for justice. They have a difficult time respecting SDA ministers who look the other way. Children leave our churches partly because they no longer have respect for a tainted ministry. Many of our churches are treading water-slowly losing ground.

This is a sin that is eating away at God's church because the people refuse to say "enough of this sin". Many are like me, having had no knowledge of it until someone started talking. I am appalled at what has and is continuing to happen. The SDA church needs a cleansing and it needs to start with the ministry. I believe we also need to shake up the leadership and put in new Godly men/women who will let God lead them and forget the politics. Perhaps we should limit how long they can keep a position and move them to other states so new fresh spiritual air can come to the top leadership.

I am helping an acquaintance who is doing research in this area of violence and assaults in the SDA church against woman and children. If you know of anyone who has had an experience like this, please feel free to contact me.

WE NEED TO STOP THE VIOLENCE NOW. SOCIAL JUSTICE STARTS AT HOME-IN OUR OWN CHURCH FIRST.

[Bravus]

What does the Bible say? 3000 texts in the OT alone on our treatment of those less fortunate in society. I'm happy to go with the Word.

[karl]

The term "social justice" was coined by the Jesuit Luigi Taparelli in the 1840s. Father Coughlin used the term in his publications in the 1930s and 40s, and the concept was further expanded upon by John Rawls' writing in the 1990s.

It is one of the Four Pillars of the Green Party upheld by the worldwide green parties. Some tenets of social justice have been adopted by those on the left of the political spectrum hoping to mandate a greater degree of economic egalitarianism through progressive taxation, income redistribution, or even property redistribution.

[Bravus]

Jesuits AND lefties! Oh: and the Bible

[Stan]

Esther

I understand the pain there, have experienced similiar.

I do believe that it will not stop, UNLESS the Church is active in it's purpose and mission. No purpose, no mission, and you will have more and more infighting and abuse. I have been in so many church who say "we have to get ready" yet nothing happens.

The key to moving in the right direction, is indeed, MOVING!

[bonnie]

I am waiting for the day when our leadership can come out and say "I am sorry,we were wrong" instead of "We do not admit wrongdoing but have chosen to settle this unfortunate event,put it behind us and move on".

I think that is a long time in coming if ever. They first need to care about the victim

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

Interesting thought Bonnie. (And by the way its good to see you back. Not sure you saw my other post in the other thread.)

pk

Thanks and no I didn't see the post. It seems many times by "social justice" equal outcomes is what it means. Not possible

I think I can agree with you there. But Social Justice could mean different things to each of us. Here's an example of my feelings about "SJ". a number of years ago at the place I used to work the pressroom workers all got raises, but when one of the prepress operators asked why we didn't get a raise it was said that we needed to have our evaluations first! Well we waited and waited but nothing. So I decided to not do any overtime until they did our evaluations and gave us our raises. Well no one else stood with me, but I stood for most of the other employees. They waited until the work backed up so that there was about 50-75 jobs in a backlog. Well they finally did our evaluations and all got there raises. As for me, the boss and his assistant did my evaluation, not gonna say what they said, and needless to say I was the only one in the company that did not receive a raise. And never got one till the day they laid me off, about a 15 year period. Even though I put out the most work and worked anytime they asked, etc. To me that is social justice. This might not be what others consider social but I do.

pk

[Gerr]

Just tagging on.

The strongest force for change is a thorough understanding of the gospel.

[abelisle]

Just tagging on.

The strongest force for change is a thorough understanding of the gospel.

How about "implementation?" How do you articulate action with "understanding?"

"15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." James 2:15-17

Alex

[Serafinos]

Social Justice -- the 2 most dangerous words the SDA Church, any church, for that matter, can ever include in it's ministry.

Strongly advise leaving the church in which the minister/leaders, like our own General Conference Prez, are pushing SOCIAL JUSTICE!

Our family have quit attending the large church here... as the minister literally stood up at the pulpit & campaigned for Obama.

He actually supports Gamaliel group & Tides Foundation.

Marxism!

Ellen White vividly stressed against all ministers from putting their political views out in the open. Especially at church.

Everything that is occurring in our country, at this moment are exactly what she teaches to stand up against. She even states that we should go protest & vote on Sabbath if it's the only time available.

Pray for our church. We are under attact by the enemy from within -- more than I've ever witnessed in my 52 yrs.

And one thing nobody would ever label me... fanatic.

[Bravus]

So what about the 3000 texts in the bible about how we should care for the widows and the fatherless? You'll say that's individual charity, not government programs - and I'll agree. And that's what we're talking about here, believers and the church, not politics.

Any questions?

[SivartM]

Justice is bad?

:(

[Liz]

So what about the 3000 texts in the bible about how we should care for the widows and the fatherless? You'll say that's individual charity, not government programs - and I'll agree. And that's what we're talking about here, believers and the church, not politics.

Any questions?

The problem with this is, that "everyone" thinks it is "someone" elses job to take care of them and then "nobody" does it. Also when you make a blanket statement like "care for" no one is quite sure what that looks like. Does that mean financially support the widow and kids until the children are raised? Drop her off some groceries once in a while or what? And while everyone makes the pat little comments that raising children is one of the hardest jobs there is, I bet no one is willing to financially support a whole other family. So the only recourse this family would have would be to go to the government.

[phkrause]

I have to agree with Bravus on this. God setup a system so that those that made bad decisions would not be left out in the cold. That's why the Hebrew nation had the sabbatical years, so those that lost there homes or property would get them back. some would have to wait many years others would only wait a few depending on where they were in the cycle of the sabbatical year. But the problem was they didn't do this and they got themselves into trouble with God.

pk

[Stan]

I just got this in my inbox

Proverbs 28:27

A man who helps the poor will never want; he who

ignores them will get many a curse.

Moffatt

To subscribe: http://aBibleVerse.org/faq/

[phkrause]

I just got this in my inbox

Proverbs 28:27

A man who helps the poor will never want; he who

ignores them will get many a curse.

Moffatt

To subscribe: http://aBibleVerse.org/faq/

I like that Stan. Kind of off topic but leading up to my point. I remember a statement by EGW that if all the members in the church gave we would not need in gathering at all. I believe the same can be said about the church helping those in need, if more of us or all the churches helped those who need help people would never of needed to go to the government for help.

pk

[SivartM]

Well, I think someone decided we didn't need ingathering, but forgot the part about all the members giving... :\

[Liz]

I have to agree with Bravus on this. God setup a system so that those that made bad decisions would not be left out in the cold. That's why the Hebrew nation had the sabbatical years, so those that lost there homes or property would get them back. some would have to wait many years others would only wait a few depending on where they were in the cycle of the sabbatical year. But the problem was they didn't do this and they got themselves into trouble with God.

pk

Yes, but my point was; that we are not living that way now. We can talk about what the "perfect" system would look like, but we need to look at the hard reality of what is happening now and then remedy it.

[phkrause]

Well, I think someone decided we didn't need ingathering, but forgot the part about all the members giving... :\

Actually Sivart I believe that there are still people that do ingathering. Not sure about whole churches.

pk