Health Reform: looks like it's a done deal

[Bravus]

Got CNN on in the background, and the preparatory votes are in place, and the Stupak group of anti-abortion Democrats seem to have been mollified, which means the Dems have more than the votes they need. Looks as though it's a done deal at this stage, which is a great outcome and a great legacy for the President.

(heh, guess we'll see how long it takes this thread to vanish into the Politics forum )

[SivartM]

My two cents:

Okay.

Now everyone with an opinion can take over! :D

[phkrause]

Got CNN on in the background, and the preparatory votes are in place, and the Stupak group of anti-abortion Democrats seem to have been mollified, which means the Dems have more than the votes they need. Looks as though it's a done deal at this stage, which is a great outcome and a great legacy for the President.

(heh, guess we'll see how long it takes this thread to vanish into the Politics forum )

Well that sounds great Bravus. But if all this is, is only so it gives the president, and it doesn't matter who it would've been, a legacy than it sucks. But if it really helps the US citizens than I have no problem saying this is a great legacy for Obama.

pk

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Got CNN on in the background, and the preparatory votes are in place, and the Stupak group of anti-abortion Democrats seem to have been mollified, which means the Dems have more than the votes they need. Looks as though it's a done deal at this stage, which is a great outcome and a great legacy for the President.

(heh, guess we'll see how long it takes this thread to vanish into the Politics forum )

Well that sounds great Bravus. But if all this is, is only so it gives the president, and it doesn't matter who it would've been, a legacy than it sucks. But if it really helps the US citizens than I have no problem saying this is a great legacy for Obama.

pk

Was there ever that much doubt? The next few months may slow some of this but will not stop it.

As time here grows shorter and no I don't believe it will end tomorrow or next year,the US must embrace socialism more and more. A free country will not allow what is to come and come it will. Some probably no longer believe the role the US has in bible prophecy but I do.

It will not be Russia or China that destroys this country.It will be the US itself going faster and faster against the principals this country was founded on.

[Bravus]

A legacy has to be about something real if it's to mean anything at all, and IMO this is something real and very large for the country. Will it be perfect, and transform the USA into a utopia? Of course not. Anyone who says that is mostly someone setting it up to 'fail' in their own definitions. But is it a massive improvement over the status quo? Yep.

Bonnie, from your earlier comments, you were both complaining that it's a bad thing *and* complaining that it takes too long to get started. If it's a bad thing then surely it's a good thing if it takes a while to start, or conversely if it's bad that it takes a while to start it must be a good thing.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Bonnie, from your earlier comments, you were both complaining that it's a bad thing *and* complaining that it takes too long to get started. If it's a bad thing then surely it's a good thing if it takes a while to start, or conversely if it's bad that it takes a while to start it must be a good thing.

No,I was not complaining it took to long to get started.I commented on it because I believe the "crisis" is a farce.

Obama has cried crisis since he took office. "People are dying without insurance" being shutout of coverage by the evil insurance companies.

He has either outright lied or is woefully ignorant of the laws that govern insurance companies in his own country. Before he takes credit for "this historic change" he would do well to see what has gone before him.

To me a crisis is something that requires as immediate action as possible,especially to save dying people.

It seems a little strange to collect money for a few years before that takes place.

Stranger still to live in a country where I can be demanded by my government to purchase something I may not want

[phkrause]

Personally Bravus I think this will be an improvement over what we've had for at least the past 30 years.

pk

[bonnie]

Personally Bravus I think this will be an improvement over what we've had for at least the past 30 years.

pk

What portion of the bill? Can you share what is in it and how it will impact the US,economy and otherwise?

You don't get to choose a little here and a little there,"Like saying I am partially pregnant"

You take the whole ball of wax

[Neil D]

Here's what CBS news claims that is in the bill-

By CBS News Capitol Hill Producers Jill Jackson and John Nolen

Cost:

* $940 billion over ten years.

Deficit:

*

Would reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the first ten years. That is an updated CBO estimate. Their first preliminary estimate said it would reduce the deficit by $130 billion over ten years. Would reduce the deficit by $1.2 billion dollars in the second ten years.

Coverage:

* Would expand coverage to 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured.

Health Insurance Exchanges:

* The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.

* Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage -- effective 2014.

* Funding available to states to establish exchanges within one year of enactment and until January 1, 2015.

Subsidies:

* Individuals and families who make between 100 percent - 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies. They cannot be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid and cannot be covered by an employer. Eligible buyers receive premium credits and there is a cap for how much they have to contribute to their premiums on a sliding scale.

Federal Poverty Level for family of four is $22,050

Paying for the Plan:

* Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).

* Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.

* Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.

Medicare:

* Closes the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole" by 2020. Seniors who hit the donut hole by 2010 will receive a $250 rebate.

* Beginning in 2011, seniors in the gap will receive a 50 percent discount on brand name drugs. The bill also includes $500 billion in Medicare cuts over the next decade.

Medicaid:

* Expands Medicaid to include 133 percent of federal poverty level which is $29,327 for a family of four.

* Requires states to expand Medicaid to include childless adults starting in 2014.

* Federal Government pays 100 percent of costs for covering newly eligible individuals through 2016.

* Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid.

Insurance Reforms:

* Six months after enactment, insurance companies could no longer denying children coverage based on a preexisting condition.

* Starting in 2014, insurance companies cannot deny coverage to anyone with preexisting conditions.

* Insurance companies must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans through age 26.

Abortion:

* The bill segregates private insurance premium funds from taxpayer funds. Individuals would have to pay for abortion coverage by making two separate payments, private funds would have to be kept in a separate account from federal and taxpayer funds.

* No health care plan would be required to offer abortion coverage. States could pass legislation choosing to opt out of offering abortion coverage through the exchange.

**Separately, anti-abortion Democrats worked out language with the White House on an executive order that would state that no federal funds can be used to pay for abortions except in the case of rape, incest or health of the mother. (Read more here)

Individual Mandate:

* In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.

Employer Mandate:

* Technically, there is no employer mandate. Employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Fines applied to entire number of employees minus some allowances.

Immigration:

* Illegal immigrants will not be allowed to buy health insurance in the exchanges -- even if they pay completely with their own money.

[jasd]

QR frame:

If it is good for anything - it's gotta be good for the

57 United States of America, yes?

The puerile believe in free lunches, which puts me to mind that -

there ain no such thing as a freebie.

Yumpin' Yiminy Cricket!—wisdom ha’done fled this’n land, leavin’ idjits yumpin’ an’ yellin’ fer sow’s ear freebers... Oy! Oy! Oy!

(I speak to the left-of-aisle Congress)

[olger]

Wow. That the dems would fall on their own swords like this, is noteworthy.

oG

[Stan]

I know that not all 'facts' presented on both sides are as clear as they are said.

I have not heard any one say, that if 1/2 the bankruptcies cease, how much of a saving that will be for banks and business, or did I miss that?

ALSO, is there any other developed country that does not provide health care to it's citizens?

[Stan]

when will the actual vote take place?

[Neil D]

The senate version of the bill passed the House with a few revisions, to which the senate needs to ok them....Hopefully, it will do so.....

[Bravus]

The vote is scheduled for some time around 10 pm Eastern, and the President will speak immediately after it.

[bonnie]

I know that not all 'facts' presented on both sides are as clear as they are said.

I have not heard any one say, that if 1/2 the bankruptcies cease, how much of a saving that will be for banks and business, or did I miss that?

[Dr. Shane]

Looks as though it's a done deal at this stage, which is a great outcome and a great legacy for the President.

(heh, guess we'll see how long it takes this thread to vanish into the Politics forum )

Numerous states have already passed laws instructing their state attorney generals to challenge the law once it is signed into law. It is likely to go all the way to the Supreme Court. If the Supreme Court upholds it, we can then say it is a done deal.

The great flaw with this law is that it mandates every citizen to purchase a product (health insurance) from the private sector. This is not the same as mandatory car insurance laws. A citizen only needs to buy car insurance if he or she wants to drive a car on public roads. The health-care insurance requirement will apply to everyone residing within the United States.

The irony is that the public option where the government basically operates like a giant insurance company would not be unconstitutional. That is basically what the government does now with Social Security. The bill now being passed is a compromise which may end up getting overturned by the Supreme Court.

[jasd]

>>What do bankruptcies have to do with passing health care.

[...]

that monstrosity and it is not nearly as benign as they would have you believe.<<

Indeed. Why is control of the Student Loan programs part of the bill?—and is it, as its proponents bruit – that guns are health-related and will be regulated by the Health Industry bureaucracy, etc? What next, large cars are health related?—oil-fired home furnaces?—transfats? Oh, so sorry, baka-san heavenry congreshman, a’rdy, hai?

>>Why do citizens of other countries come here.I haven't heard of them flocking to Canada?<<

Or Castro to Spain for cardiac issues?

>>I want him to explain how 500 billion in medicare cuts and adding more to the government rolls leads to increased benefits and services.<<

I’d first ask him how many states comprise the USA. Then I’d want to know why his Administration finagled the numbers so that SS recipients were denied COLAs this year – like that ain not a tax!—now he done relieved their health program by half a trillion buckeroo$. Real stand-up kind of guy.

[karl]

Then I’d want to know why his Administration finagled the numbers so that SS recipients were denied COLAs this year – like that ain not a tax!—now he done relieved their health program by half a trillion buckeroo$. Real stand-up kind of guy.

Kill 'em - they're too old and, consequently, too conservative. They don't vote for libs. They're useless eaters and they burn way too much health care.

[karl]

ALSO, is there any other developed country that does not provide health care to it's citizens?

Uh, lets be honest here. That would be citizens supplying healthcare to the citizens, Stan. Please remember that the government makes/produces nothing. It is a drain on the citizenry, and if it is going to provide anything to its citizens it must steal the funds from them first, rake off a bunch for pork and inefficient administration, and then, hopefully, give back what is left.

Seriously. That's how it works.

[Bravus]

Um, not really. Have a look at Canada and Australia. Not perfect, but a heck of a lot less likely to bankrupt someone who gets sick...

[Woody]

Quote:

"The bill also includes $500 billion in Medicare cuts over the next decade."

Oh ain't that just dandy. Obama is making the elderly and the disabled pay for his plan. Well folks .... that's what you voted for.

[Dr. Shane]

The plan mandates everyone to buy insurance from private insurance companies. That is not the type of universal health-care that many were hoping for. It sounds like insurance companies have a very big reason to celebrate.

[lazarus]

I think James Clyburn got it right when he compared the passage of this legislation with civil rights legislation. It's amazing that people would have fought civil rights legislation but they did. In a generation people will be equally amazed about the battle over health care.

It was good day for America.

[karl]

I think James Clyburn got it right when he compared the passage of this legislation with civil rights legislation. It's amazing that people would have fought civil rights legislation but they did. In a generation people will be equally amazed about the battle over health care.

It was good day for America.

I find Clyburn's analogy offensive. There is absolutely no logical comparison between entitlements and rights.

Healthcare deform will create an unconstitutional right to other people's property/money. It is about one group having their hand in another group's pocket.

Civil rights is honoring individual rights established in our bill of rights and constitution. It is about equal OPPORTUNITY. Some have tried to make it into an entitlement, but it is not.

No comparison. Entitlements are wrong. Civil rights are right.