Health Reform: looks like it's a done deal

[karl]

I do not support deficit spending. I am fiscally conservative. However, we can't ignore our huge GDP. We have the largest GDP in the world. Japan is #2 and ours is nearly three times the size of theirs. That means we have a lot of money to work with. Our welfare programs are a very small part of our budget. In fact, the interest on our debt is more than our welfare programs. We need to be much more concerned about running a balanced budget and paying down the debt than we are about the few dollars tossed into the welfare program to help the poorest among us.

Do some research, Shane. Give us your plan for reducing the deficit. The only way to reduce that enormous interest on the national debt is to pay it down. That means we have to spend less than we take in. We haven't done that in a LONG time.

We are steadily reducing our percentage of defense spending (9% to 4% of GDP over past 40 years) while entitlement spending is increasing at twice the rate of our GDP (10% to 20% over the same period) so what are you planning to cut?

Let's do away with foreign welfare, all farm subsidies and corporate welfare. Believe it or not, that doesn't amount to much in savings compared with the trillion dollar spending spree we're on.

Then what?

Privatize education? (I consider public school to be welfare/daycare, anyway.)

[Dr. Shane]

I think we need to dramatically decrease defense spending. I support foreign aid. That keeps us out of a lot of wars. I think our active-duty military should be about 10% of what it is today and the reserve component should be larger than what it is today. That would provide us with war-ready soldiers getting paid only a fraction of what we now spend on defense. We need to pull our military out of areas where they are not needed. We don't need soldiers in Japan, Philippians or Germany. Our aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines provide us with a military presence anywhere in the world we need it at a fraction of the cost of having bases in other nations.

[karl]

I think we need to dramatically decrease defense spending. I support foreign aid. That keeps us out of a lot of wars. I think our active-duty military should be about 10% of what it is today and the reserve component should be larger than what it is today. That would provide us with war-ready soldiers getting paid only a fraction of what we now spend on defense. We need to pull our military out of areas where they are not needed. We don't need soldiers in Japan, Philippians or Germany. Our aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines provide us with a military presence anywhere in the world we need it at a fraction of the cost of having bases in other nations.

I agree with everything you say above and I'm all for it, just as any true conservative should be. We only need enough military to protect our shores and our borders. Foreign aid won't be necessary if we just leave the troops at home. But still, that won't fix the financial problem. Defense spending has fallen steadily in the past 40 years from 8.8% to 3.8% GDP and even if it were zero that doesn't change the fact that entitlement spending has risen to over 20% of GDP. That's not 20% of the federal budget. It's 20% of GDP. Entitlements plus interest on the national debt is almost all of the federal budget and will be all of the budget in less than ten years.

The ONLY thing that will get us to where we can start paying down the national debt is cutting entitlement spending.

[Dr. Shane]

Those statistics include Social Security and Medicare as entitlements. When I talk about welfare and public assistance programs I am excluding Social Security and Medicare. In 2006 we have a federal deficit of $500 billion and defense spending was nearly $515 billion. Until President Obama came along, the biggest budget item was Social Security followed closely by defense spending.

[Dr. Shane]

Defense spending in 2007 was nearly $550 billion and the deficit was $245 billion. Defense spending in 2008 was $626 billion and the deficit was $239 billion.

That is the untold tale. President Bush had the deficit decreasing each year until Obama showed up.

[karl]

Each year since 1969, Congress has spent more money than its income. The Treasury Department has to borrow money to meet Congress's appropriations.

We pay interest on that huge debt. And now the Treasury is having trouble finding lenders!

In 1935, the Social Security Act created Washington's Ponzi scheme, misrepresented to the voters as an insurance retirement program. It promised to invest worker payments in safe securities to pay for their future retirement.

Instead, SS payments - really taxes - are paid into the Federal Treasury and spent that year. The Government then issues Treasury Notes (IOU's) to a mythical Social Security "Trust Fund". In other words, the Government's left pocket pays its right pocket with IOU's from our pockets.

In 1945, there were 42 workers for each SS beneficiary. By 2010, only 3 workers are left to support each beneficiary. By 2035 only two will be left. The hope is that Tom and Dick will continue to pay for Harry.

Whadda you think, Tom (Shane)?

You and I now owe $14 trillion to pay for future retirees entitled to receive Social Security.

I agree that defense must be cut and the soldiers brought home to manage our borders, but you can't cut defense to anywhere near zero, so there must be a substantial cut in entitlements.

[phkrause]

Each year since 1969, Congress has spent more money than its income. The Treasury Department has to borrow money to meet Congress's appropriations.

We pay interest on that huge debt. And now the Treasury is having trouble finding lenders!

In 1935, the Social Security Act created Washington's Ponzi scheme, misrepresented to the voters as an insurance retirement program. It promised to invest worker payments in safe securities to pay for their future retirement.

Instead, SS payments - really taxes - are paid into the Federal Treasury and spent that year. The Government then issues Treasury Notes (IOU's) to a mythical Social Security "Trust Fund". In other words, the Government's left pocket pays its right pocket with IOU's from our pockets.

In 1945, there were 42 workers for each SS beneficiary. By 2010, only 3 workers are left to support each beneficiary. By 2035 only two will be left. The hope is that Tom and Dick will continue to pay for Harry.

Whadda you think, Tom (Shane)?

You and I now owe $14 trillion to pay for future retirees entitled to receive Social Security.

I agree that defense must be cut and the soldiers brought home to manage our borders, but you can't cut defense to anywhere near zero, so there must be a substantial cut in entitlements.

Karl you keep bringing up entitlements! Could you list them or what you consider them to be? Thanks.

pk

[karl]

Karl you keep bringing up entitlements! Could you list them or what you consider them to be? Thanks.

pk

Entitlements are just what they sound like. They are government programs by which some people are entitled to money from the Federal Government (fincanced by all of us.) These are not contracts to build things or provide services like power or sewer or national defense.

Here is a partial list.

Medicaid

AFDC (now TANF)

Food Stamps

Supplemental Security Income

Lower income housing asst.

Earned Income Tax Credit

Stafford loans

Social Services (Title 20)

Pell Grants

Low-rent public housing

General medical assistance

School Lunch

General Assistance

Head Start

Food supplements, Women, infants and children

Training for disadvantaged youth and adults

Low-income energy assistance

Summer youth employment

Maternal and child health

JOBS and WIN

Job Corps

Child care block grant

School Breakfast

Child care for AFDC

Nutrition Program for Elderly

Housing interest reduction

Child and adult care food program

"At risk" child care

[phkrause]

OK, so now tell me where they get the money for these programs? Does the tax payer pay for this or does the money come from the politicians?

pk

[karl]

OK, so now tell me where they get the money for these programs? Does the tax payer pay for this or does the money come from the politicians?

pk

It would be wonderful if the costs for these programs came out of the politicians' pockets. Then these programs would not exist. Remember that Davy Crockett story I had you read? When it came time to contribute their own money to help others, the bill failed. As long as they thought they were spending other peoples' money, they felt quite generous.

[bonnie]

Quote:

OK, so now tell me where they get the money for these programs? Does the tax payer pay for this or does the money come from the politicians?

pk

Politicians live off of taxpayer money and spend taxpayer money.

Taking more and more for themselves and their families and creating more and more dependents.

Don't know if you listened to the interviews following the election or not.

Many people were "thanking God Obama was elected"

One said she would no longer have to worry about money for gas or her mortgage.When asked where the money would come from she replied "Obama's stash" One needed a new car,another repairs on her home

Silly women could not figure out Obama's stash was taxpayer money.That which he intended to redistribute.

[Dr. Shane]

The money government spends comes either from taxes or from borrowing money.

When speaking about welfare, it is a bit unfair to lump Social Security and Medicare spending in with that.

Social Security needs to be reformed much like George Bush was proposing or something similar. That would bring in additional revenue to it. Bill Clinton had a similar plan. The far left liberals are against and took control of the Democratic party as soon as Bill Clinton left.

The budget could be balanced by drastically reducing defense spending and by reforming Social Security. Health-care should remain in the private sector with government regulation.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

OK, so now tell me where they get the money for these programs? Does the tax payer pay for this or does the money come from the politicians?

pk

It would be wonderful if the costs for these programs came out of the politicians' pockets. Then these programs would not exist. Remember that Davy Crockett story I had you read? When it came time to contribute their own money to help others, the bill failed. As long as they thought they were spending other peoples' money, they felt quite generous.

So you have not answered my question! Where does the money come from? From the tax payer I'm guessing? So than all of us have been paying into these services, so that if we need them we can get them! Is this not correct? I've paid SS all my working days, now that I'm almost ready to retire I can get what I've been paying for (obviously I wish it were more). Also all those other services that we have paid into are there when needed, correct? So they are not entitlement but services that many have been paying into for all the years that they have been working. I believe that the taxes that we have been paying all these years is where this money comes from? So now lets look at all the people that pay taxes! I believe that those of us that are middle class and lower seem to be the ones that are always having to pay, because those that are making the most seem to be able to find more loop holes to not have to pay there fair share. They pay big bucks to have 20-50 lawyers find every loop hole that there is, so as not to have to pay for the service's that they will someday use as you and I will be using when our working days are over. Right now I'm taking advantage of unemployment. I believe that I have an "entitlement" as you call it to that. I've worked some 48 years and than to be laid off like I was, I most definitely deserve to get this money, that has been put there for me or all of us to use. This is not an entitlement to me. Social Security is not and entitlement to me, etc. All these so called services us tax payers are paying for, so when the time comes we should be able to use them!!!!!!

[karl]

Originally Posted By: karl

It would be wonderful if the costs for these programs came out of the politicians' pockets. Then these programs would not exist.

So you have not answered my question! Where does the money come from? From the tax payer I'm guessing? So than all of us have been paying into these services, so that if we need them we can get them! Is this not correct? ....This is not an entitlement to me..... so when the time comes we should be able to use them!!!!!!

That would be true if SS actually were a pension plan (if it really were what was sold to the American people by the liberal scum in Washington DC.) If it were a real pension plan, the amount the average worker paid in, if invested only in T bills, would make him almost a millionaire at retirement and the return would be about $4800 a month.

That is not the case. SS turns out to be an entitlement because the politicians spend the money as as fast as it comes in and replace it with IOUs which must be paid by future generations.

Social security is broke and has been basically since inception, but up until recently they were doing lots of fancy accounting to say it had funds. They have given that up because our economy is in such horrible fiscal condition it is impossible any longer to hide the fact that there is no money anywhere.

We are not only bankrupt, our debt is accelerating past the liberal dumbosphere into the spotlight. When you've got the communist Chinese telling you to get your finances in order, you have hit an almost inconceivable low.

[phkrause]

Just because the government has screwed up our SS retirement money still doesn't make it an entitlement. We the people have still paid into it, right? Its not like we have not put any money into it!!!!!

pk

[karl]

Just because the government has screwed up our SS retirement money still doesn't make it an entitlement. We the people have still paid into it, right? Its not like we have not put any money into it!!!!!

You put money into Social Security. You put money into welfare. You put money into education. You put money into NASA. You put money into Medicaid and Medicare and a myriad of other government programs.

None of those has any reserves.

The government is broke and in the hole for $12 trillion. We cannot conceive of that much debt so we ignore it.

It will all come crashing down around our shoulders soon. There will either be massive hikes in taxes, monetization of the debt, or hyperinflation.

We are in deep trouble. There is not an economist in the world that will tell you otherwise. Usually when things get bad there are at least a few saying, "Oh everything's OK. We can make a lot of money during this climb out of recession." Not this time.

Try to find anybody other than a government hack who is saying good things about the salvageability of our economic picture. Report it here and we'll talk about it.

[Dr. Shane]

Our debt needs to be viewed in the context of the GDP.

Is it bad? Yes.

Is the sky falling? No.

[karl]

How bad is it, Shane? Nobody asked about the sky. What do you think will pay down the debt? Some kind of magic? How resilient is this "bad" economy? What will start the dominoes again? Greece? Another oil hit of $5/gal? A big quake in California? There are so many tipping points and we are already over the edge.

But you seem OK with it. Keep that entitlement spending going. Those guys in DC are doing a fine job because they believe we can spend our way out of debt.

Right.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

Just because the government has screwed up our SS retirement money still doesn't make it an entitlement. We the people have still paid into it, right? Its not like we have not put any money into it!!!!!

You put money into Social Security. You put money into welfare. You put money into education. You put money into NASA. You put money into Medicaid and Medicare and a myriad of other government programs.

None of those has any reserves.

The government is broke and in the hole for $12 trillion. We cannot conceive of that much debt so we ignore it.

It will all come crashing down around our shoulders soon. There will either be massive hikes in taxes, monetization of the debt, or hyperinflation.

We are in deep trouble. There is not an economist in the world that will tell you otherwise. Usually when things get bad there are at least a few saying, "Oh everything's OK. We can make a lot of money during this climb out of recession." Not this time.

Try to find anybody other than a government hack who is saying good things about the salvageability of our economic picture. Report it here and we'll talk about it.

Yes we pay into all these programs, so how is it we call them entitlement? Because we pay to them so we are than entitled are we not? So why do I keep hearing about all the people that think they are entitled? We are, are we not????????? I know I'm entitled to every penny I can get!!!! I've worked long and hard and paid and so has every other person plain and simple.

pk

[karl]

Yes we pay into all these programs, so how is it we call them entitlement? Because we pay to them so we are than entitled are we not? So why do I keep hearing about all the people that think they are entitled? We are, are we not????????? I know I'm entitled to every penny I can get!!!! I've worked long and hard and paid and so has every other person plain and simple.

If your liberal legislators had actually left funds in the SS trust fund rather than replacing the funds with IOUs, your argument would be correct. As it is, we can only tap the younger workers in our society to receive money from SS. In 1945 there were 45 workers for every enrollee in SS. Now there are 3. In ten years there will be 2. They simply will not be able to carry you even if nothing bad happens between now and then.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

Yes we pay into all these programs, so how is it we call them entitlement? Because we pay to them so we are than entitled are we not? So why do I keep hearing about all the people that think they are entitled? We are, are we not????????? I know I'm entitled to every penny I can get!!!! I've worked long and hard and paid and so has every other person plain and simple.

If your liberal legislators had actually left funds in the SS trust fund rather than replacing the funds with IOUs, your argument would be correct. As it is, we can only tap the younger workers in our society to receive money from SS. In 1945 there were 45 workers for every enrollee in SS. Now there are 3. In ten years there will be 2. They simply will not be able to carry you even if nothing bad happens between now and then.

What do you mean by my liberal legislators? I don't have liberal legislators! I have legislators period. And if you think its only one side that has created this problem, I feel sorry for you and all the others that think one side of the isle is for the people, there is no difference at all. They are all the same.

pk

[karl]

What do you mean by my liberal legislators? I don't have liberal legislators!

We all do, unfortunately. And they are making our economic future dubious at best. We need to get rid of them. ASAP