NYC cops storm SDA church

[abelisle]

I guess that the concept of church as a sanctuary for wrong-doers has elapsed?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime...lack_of_re.html

But what is more disconcerting is that the culprit is a member of the church! Surely we are a hospital for sinners!

Would the cops have so quickly entered the sanctuary of St. Patrick's Cathedral as someone commented in the article?

What would you have said or done if you were a member of that church when this incident occurred?

Alex (hmm . . . wonder if they would have arrested me if I would have done what I probably would've done?)

P.S. Feel free to take their poll and check out the surveillance video

[Dr. Rich]

Great post! Let's see now, Noriega went to his church and the United States Army refused to go inside--hmmmm?? Could it do with something called a '501©3' verses an un-incorporated Church? But then there are those pesky 'fresh pursuit' laws too.

[phkrause]

I guess that the concept of church as a sanctuary for wrong-doers has elapsed?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime...lack_of_re.html

But what is more disconcerting is that the culprit is a member of the church! Surely we are a hospital for sinners!

Would the cops have so quickly entered the sanctuary of St. Patrick's Cathedral as someone commented in the article?

What would you have said or done if you were a member of that church when this incident occurred?

Alex (hmm . . . wonder if they would have arrested me if I would have done what I probably would've done?)

P.S. Feel free to take their poll and check out the surveillance video

Interesting situation Alex! Yes we are a hospital for sinners but if we can do the crime than we need to do the time. Not sure if the kid ran into a RC church that the police would or not have done the same. I'd say they probably would've.

If I were a member I'd have done exactly what the ones did that were there when the cops came in looking for the young man, show them which way he went. He obviously did look for his pastor to seek help, he was just trying to hide from the police for the wrong that he did. If I were the pastor and he came to me I would've talk with him and told him to turn himself in, and would've been with him as he did so.

pk

[karl]

The concept of sanctuary dates back to Mosaic law, which held that fugitives from the laws of man could take refuge at the altar of God, who, as the ultimate source of justice, would protect them if they were innocent. Christianity broadened the idea to include protection of the guilty. The Justinian Code of the Byzantine Empire, for example, denied church sanctuary primarily to criminals convicted of high treason or sacrilege. In medieval Europe, churches were allowed to protect convicted criminals—like Esmeralda, the condemned witch and murderess of Victor Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame—on condition that they forfeit all their property and belongings to the state. The privilege of church sanctuary began to give way during the Protestant Reformation, and there has never been any legal precedent for it in U.S. jurisprudence.

[Liz]

Unless you're a Highlander, then you absolutely can't take another's head on Holy ground. (sorry I couldn't resist)

Thanks for the history lesson Karl, that was very interesting. (said in all seriousness)

[LifeHiscost]

Unless you're a Highlander, then you absolutely can't take another's head on Holy ground. (sorry I couldn't resist)

Thanks for the history lesson Karl, that was very interesting. (said in all seriousness)

Ditto!

[Woody]

The main question that no one has asked here is ...

Was this during Sabbath School time or during the main preaching service?

Why do I ask? Because Sabbath School has been called a nursery of crime by some in high places:

"Governor Washburn, of Wisconsin, in his annual message declared “that church fairs, charitable raffles, concert lotteries for charitable and other purposes, prize packages, ‘grabbags,’ Sabbath-school and other religious chances by ticket, are nurseries of crime" ... Ellen White in GC88 p.387

[phkrause]

The main question that no one has asked here is ...

Was this during Sabbath School time or during the main preaching service?

Why do I ask? Because Sabbath School has been called a nursery of crime by some in high places:

"Governor Washburn, of Wisconsin, in his annual message declared “that church fairs, charitable raffles, concert lotteries for charitable and other purposes, prize packages, ‘grabbags,’ Sabbath-school and other religious chances by ticket, are nurseries of crime" ... Ellen White in GC88 p.387

Woody if you check the video out I think you'll find that this was not a Sabbath, or during church or Sabbath School.

pk

[Dr. Rich]

What I would like to know is why was the camera on if it was not church service? Are our church buildings owned by 'big brother' now?

[SivartM]

Um... I think the point of surveillance cameras is to have them on at all times.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Woody

The main question that no one has asked here is ...

Was this during Sabbath School time or during the main preaching service?

Why do I ask? Because Sabbath School has been called a nursery of crime by some in high places:

"Governor Washburn, of Wisconsin, in his annual message declared “that church fairs, charitable raffles, concert lotteries for charitable and other purposes, prize packages, ‘grabbags,’ Sabbath-school and other religious chances by ticket, are nurseries of crime" ... Ellen White in GC88 p.387

Woody if you check the video out I think you'll find that this was not a Sabbath, or during church or Sabbath School.

pk

It happened on a friday night so yes it was the Sabbath.

[Dr. Rich]

Surveillance cameras in a church? Oh---I get it! Sorry, it slipped my brain for a minute. YES! Can't have pastors sexually assaulting kids anymore!

[Guest]

Unless you're a Highlander, then you absolutely can't take another's head on Holy ground. (sorry I couldn't resist)

Thanks for the history lesson Karl, that was very interesting. (said in all seriousness)

I may be a Highlander, but I still would not take another's head on Holy ground. I don't even carry my sword to church.

[olger]

The blame is on the miscreant, the police were doing their job.

[SivartM]

Surveillance cameras in a church? Oh---I get it! Sorry, it slipped my brain for a minute. YES! Can't have pastors sexually assaulting kids anymore!

Or... maybe they're in a big city where it's never a bad idea to have extra security?

Just because your church doesn't have surveillance cameras (of course, for all I know, it does, and you don't know either), that doesn't mean that they're bad for all churches.

[Liz]

I may be a Highlander, but I still would not take another's head on Holy ground. I don't even carry my sword to church.

Really? I always take my sword to church, however, I do try not to take another's head off with it. (Ephesians 6:17) <wink>

[Woody]

Quote:

Really? I always take my sword to church, however, I do try not to take another's head off with it. (Ephesians 6:17) <wink>

Cool. Yes, I bring my sword to church also.

[Dr. Rich]

What's with the sword? How about my 5 iron--or better yet, my glock?

[Guest]

When you become a Highlander, you will need to leave the Glock at home, and carry the sword. Didn't you ever watch tv?

I almost never carry my .45 to church anymore.

[Dr. Rich]

Ok, that was a good one Richard!

[phkrause]

Woody if you check the video out I think you'll find that this was not a Sabbath, or during church or Sabbath School.

pk

It happened on a friday night so yes it was the Sabbath.

Good catch Richard. What I actually meant was the Worship service. I believe that Dr. Rich was saying that he thought that they were in the middle of SS or worship.

pk

[phkrause]

Or... maybe they're in a big city where it's never a bad idea to have extra security?

Just because your church doesn't have surveillance cameras (of course, for all I know, it does, and you don't know either), that doesn't mean that they're bad for all churches.

Yes Sivart you are correct, this church is in NYC. Not that all churches have cameras but many do.

pk

[Gloria04]

In turkey SDA church would be derived of more of its empire, so Turkey joined forces with Germany and fought against the allies. This saw New Zealand's entrance to the and although the campaign was minor in numerical terms, it still holds great significance and personal importance to the SDA churchs and who knew someone that fought there. On your holiday in SDA church Turkey the area is definitely worth a visit and you can expect to see an extensive collection of Great War paraphernalia from sunken battleships to guns, forts and battalions.

St Paul in Ephesus

[Overaged]

Of course, in their paranoia, the "black" church members did have to draw the racism card, when the police were just doing their job like they would have anywhere else. What a bunch of bologna. I would have held that dunce in a headlock for the police till they got to him.

[bonnie]

The blame is on the miscreant, the police were doing their job.

Please don't blame the guilty.We have no idea what has happened in his childhood that would have made him steal a car and run the very real risk of running over innocents,especially children.

The fact he is black cinches it that this is nothing but racism run amok.A white person could have stolen that same care,ran the same risk and have the police officer ask him nicely if he wanted a safe ride home.

Not everything is racism,sometimes it is just plain old fashioned guilty and illegal behavior