The Holy Bible: Pure and Simple

[Overaged]

The Holy Bible Pure and Simple

In this topic; I would be interested to study the Bible, and only the Bible. What is it? Who wrote it? Where did it come from? Etc. What is it’s degree of “inspiration” and/or “infallibility?” What kind of forces are working against the Bible in today’s society?

I will confess for a moment, my own truncheon here, I would also be interested in presenting/discussing certain Catholic and/or Calvinistic doctrines about the Bible to see how they compare to Adventist beliefs.

To me; it is important to discuss such things right now. There are many teachings out there which essentially lock out the Bible’s authority, and it would be nice to have a topic here which focuses on the more positive aspects of the Bible, and locking in it's authority, on every page and verse.

The Bible itself, states it like this:

“Thy Word, O Lord is a lamp unto my feet and a Light unto my path…” (Psalms 119:105)

Some related commentary reads as follows:

The Bible contains a simple and complete system of theology and philosophy. It is the book that makes us wise unto salvation. It tells us of the love of God as shown in the plan of redemption, imparting the knowledge essential for all students--the knowledge of Christ. . . . {CT 422.1}

God has not only revealed to us the doctrine of the atonement, holding out the hope of eternal life, but His words are the manna from heaven for the soul to feed upon and receive spiritual strength. The Bible is the great standard of right and wrong, clearly defining sin and holiness. Its living principles, running through our lives like threads of gold, are our only safeguard in trial and temptation. {CT 422.2}

The Holy Scriptures were the essential study in the schools of the prophets, and they should hold the first place in every educational system, for the foundation of all right education is a knowledge of God. Used as a textbook in our schools, the Bible will do for mind and morals what cannot be done by books of science and philosophy. As a book to discipline and strengthen the intellect, to ennoble, purify, and refine the character, it is without a rival. {CT 422.3}

In my experience and from my dim view of the subject; the Bible has been made very complicated when it is actually pure and simple.

Any thoughts you may have, any questions you may grapple with regarding the Bible would be welcome here! Let the posting begin!

[phkrause]

The Holy Bible Pure and Simple

In this topic; I would be interested to study the Bible, and only the Bible. What is it? Who wrote it? Where did it come from? Etc. What is it’s degree of “inspiration” and/or “infallibility?” What kind of forces are working against the Bible in today’s society?

I will confess for a moment, my own truncheon here, I would also be interested in presenting/discussing certain Catholic and/or Calvinistic doctrines about the Bible to see how they compare to Adventist beliefs.

To me; it is important to discuss such things right now. There are many teachings out there which essentially lock out the Bible’s authority, and it would be nice to have a topic here which focuses on the more positive aspects of the Bible, and locking in it's authority, on every page and verse.

The Bible itself, states it like this:

“Thy Word, O Lord is a lamp unto my feet and a Light unto my path…” (Psalms 119:105)

Some related commentary reads as follows:

The Bible contains a simple and complete system of theology and philosophy. It is the book that makes us wise unto salvation. It tells us of the love of God as shown in the plan of redemption, imparting the knowledge essential for all students--the knowledge of Christ. . . . {CT 422.1}

God has not only revealed to us the doctrine of the atonement, holding out the hope of eternal life, but His words are the manna from heaven for the soul to feed upon and receive spiritual strength. The Bible is the great standard of right and wrong, clearly defining sin and holiness. Its living principles, running through our lives like threads of gold, are our only safeguard in trial and temptation. {CT 422.2}

The Holy Scriptures were the essential study in the schools of the prophets, and they should hold the first place in every educational system, for the foundation of all right education is a knowledge of God. Used as a textbook in our schools, the Bible will do for mind and morals what cannot be done by books of science and philosophy. As a book to discipline and strengthen the intellect, to ennoble, purify, and refine the character, it is without a rival. {CT 422.3}

In my experience and from my dim view of the subject; the Bible has been made very complicated when it is actually pure and simple.

Any thoughts you may have, any questions you may grapple with regarding the Bible would be welcome here! Let the posting begin!

This should be interesting! I'll probably follow it along to see what others post. I agree with your statement that the Bible has been made complicated. I've mentioned on a few other threads at various times that I thought that in my simplistic way the Bible is pretty straight and forward. Sure there are places where its difficult to follow or even understand, but I think it has more to do with the way its translated. I know that on the Jewish forum that I go to they have no love for the way Christians have translated the OT or the Jewish Bible. They don't even bother with the NT. I do have the Complete Jewish Bible by a messianic Jew which does have the NT. Its pretty good. I do enjoy the way they have translated the Bible over the ones we usually read.

But if things go the way you'd like, this should be a very good discussion.

[Overaged]

I do have the Complete Jewish Bible by a messianic Jew which does have the NT. Its pretty good. I do enjoy the way they have translated the Bible over the ones we usually read.

But if things go the way you'd like, this should be a very good discussion.

[Overaged]

Quote:

It opens to our view the long vista of eternal ages--ages undarkened by sin, undimmed by sorrow. {ML 23.6}

An eclipse of the sun is an event of very significant proportions. If you have seen one; you would find it very amazing. In certain parts of North America where the last eclipse was total or nearly so, the day became dim and dusk-like because the moon had slipped between the earth and the sun and progressively blotted out the solar disk, the source of daylight and sun.

But then finally the sun reappeared in full strength.

An eclipse of the Bible started some time ago. It appears that in many ways it is increasing in the modern culture in general. The question of the nature and purpose of the Bible is a heated subject of debate, even amongst “God’s people.”.

At the heart of this debate is the subject of the authority of the Bible. Can you think of ways that the Bible has been eclipsed?

And, furthermore, can you envision how the full light of Bible authority will re-emerge and shine again?

[Overaged]

In light of the above post; I would like to start sharing a little info on Bible study methods.

Principles Of Biblical Interpretation

by Louis F Were

(1) The Interpretation Must Reveal Christ and Make Him the Centre.

(2) Compare Scripture with Scripture for Clearer Light

(3) The Things of Israel Now Belong to the Church

(4) The Gospel in Every Passage and Prophecy

(5) The Law of Growth or Development: the Principle of Repeat and Enlarge-the Repetition Contains

an Explanation.

(6) The Law of the World-wide Symbolized by the Local

(7) The Law of the Significance of Bible Names

(8 ) The Law Governing "Spiritual" Interpretations

(9) Observe the Deep, Inner Meaning-Not Alone What is on the Surface.

(10) The Design of the Book of Revelation-All the Laws of Interpretation show that the Gathering of the Nations to "Armageddon" Must Commence Before Probation Closes.

(11) New Testament Principles Determine the Interpretation of the Latter Portion of Daniel XI.

(12) "Double" and "Triple" Applications of Prophecy `Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth" (2 Tim.

2:15).

(13) The Principle of the “Triple” Application Revealed in the Apocalypse.

To learn many more fascinating details; download the book enclosed below!

Bible-Principles-of-Interpretation.pdf

[Guest]

"Many a portion of Scripture which learned men pronounce a mystery, or pass over as unimportant, is full of comfort and instruction to him who has been taught in the school of Christ" (GC.599)

"We can attain to an understanding of God's Word only through the illumination of that Spirit by which the Word was given . . . If we would not have the Scriptures clouded to our understanding, we must have the simplicity and faith of a little child, ready to learn, and beseeching the aid of the Holy Spirit . . . There are many things apparently difficult or obscure, which God will make plain and simple to those who thus seek an understanding of them" (SC.115).

"The idea that certain portions of the Bible cannot be understood has led to neglect some of its most important truths. The mysteries of the Bible are not such because God has sought to conceal truth, but because our own weakness or ignorance makes us incapable of comprehending or appropriating truth. The limitation is not its purpose, but in our capacity. Of those very portions of Scripture so often passed by as impossible to be understood, God desires us to understand as much as our minds are capable of receiving" (Signs 25-4-1906)..

[Woody]

I think I agree with you Richardo. The important things we need to know are as simple as ABC as our prophet likes to say.

[phkrause]

I think I agree with you Richardo. The important things we need to know are as simple as ABC as our prophet likes to say.

Woody I agree with your agreement. :)

[Overaged]

A couple of other points about HOW to study the Bible that I have appreciated:

Methods of Bible Study

by Rev. R. A. Torrey

In this article Rev. Torrey often mentions using the "Textbook". He is referring to his New Topical Textbook, but any book that organizes the Bible into topics can be used with this study method. Books in this category include, but are not limited to, Nave's Topical Bible, Thompson's Chain Reference, and Torrey's New Topical Textbook. He also mentions a "concordance". Concordances let you quickly look up every occurrence of a particular word in the Bible.

1. First of all make up your mind that you will put some time every day into the study of the Word of God. That is an easy resolution to make, and not a very difficult one to keep; if the one who makes it is in earnest. It is one of the most fruitful resolutions that any Christian ever made. The forming of that resolution and the holding faithfully to it, has been the turning point in many a life. Many a life that has been barren and unsatisfactory has become rich and useful through the introduction into it of regular, persevering, daily study of the Bible. This study may not be very interesting at first, the results may not be very encouraging; but, if one will keep pegging away, it will soon begin to count as nothing else has ever counted in the development of character, and in the enrichment of the whole life. Nothing short of absolute physical inability should be allowed to interfere with this daily study.

It is impossible to make a rule that will apply to everyone as to the amount of time that shall be given each day to the study of the Word. I know many busy people, including not a few labouring men and women, who give an hour a day to Bible study, but if one cannot give more than fifteen minutes a great deal can be accomplished. Wherever it is possible the time set apart for the work should be in the daylight hours. The very best time is in the early morning hours. If possible lock yourself in with God alone.

2. Make up your mind to study the Bible. It is astounding how much heedless reading of the Bible is done. Men seem to think that there is some magic power in the book, and that, if they will but open its pages and skim over its words, they will get good out of it. The Bible is good only because of the truth that is in it, and to see this truth demands close attention. A verse must often-times be read and re-read and read again before the wondrous message of love and power that God has put into it begins to appear. Words must be turned over and over in the mind before their full force and beauty takes possession of us. One must look a long time at the great masterpieces of art to appreciate their beauty and understand their meaning, and so one must look a long time at the great verses of the Bible to appreciate their beauty and understand their meaning.

When you read a verse in the Bible ask yourself, What does this verse mean? Then ask: What does it mean for me? When that is answered ask yourself again: Is that all it means? and do not leave it until you are quite sure that is all it means for the present. You may come back at some future time and find it means yet a great deal more. If there are any important words in the verse weigh them, look up other passages where they are used, and try to get their full significance. God pronounces that man blessed who "meditates" on the Word of God "day and night" (Ps 1:2,3). An indolent skimming over a few verses or many chapters in the Bible is not meditation, and there is not much blessing in it. Jeremiah said: "Thy words were found and I did eat them." (Jer 15:16). Nothing is more important in eating than chewing. If one does not properly chew his food, he is quite as likely to get dyspepsia as nourishment. Don't let anyone chew your spiritual food for you. Insist on doing it for yourself. Any one can be a student who makes up his mind to. It is hard at first but it soon becomes easy. I have seen very dull minds become keen by holding them right down to the grindstone.

[Musicman1228]

Will this study also include the origins of the New Testament, that is, who put it together and for what reasons? I think this would be pertinent to the discussion.

[Overaged]

I guess you may contribute anything you feel is pertinent. But my aim is to keep everything here on a positive note.

[Dr. Rich]

Positive to whom?

How about setting up a foundation for the NT before comments are made on the content? What I mean is that if one does not have the correct foundational understanding on the terms of why, when and who allowed what to go into the NT, then everything else is moot.

[Overaged]

Positive to whom?

How about setting up a foundation for the NT before comments are made on the content? What I mean is that if one does not have the correct foundational understanding on the terms of why, when and who allowed what to go into the NT, then everything else is moot.

"Positive" as in pointing out to people how the Scriptures, both Old and New Testament point us to Jesus; and the Scriptures, both OT & NT being "god-breathed" have full authority in and of themselves to point us to Him by whose stripes we are healed.

Is there something I have posted here that is "wrong?"

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Here goes another thread shot to hell in a handbasket..

[Overaged]

I know how you feel but I have always had such amazing and inspirational experiences studying the Bible; I intend to continue sharing some of what I have learned over the years. "Is anything too hard for the Lord?" (Gen 18:14).

We see the answer by Jeremiah the Prophet: "there is nothing too hard for thee:" (Jer 32:17). Jesus unites the Old Testament with the New Testament in a beautiful unity of truth and hope when He says: "What's impossible with "Overaged" is possible with God."

We may all rejoice, as Christians, in the unity of the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation; it is altogether A COMPLETE WHOLE. Those who say otherwise present a complete hole.

[Guest]

Positive to whom?

How about setting up a .....

Hey Rich, for just a little pocket change each month, you could start your own thread, and talk about anything you want. Then you wouldn't have to highjack every single thread you post on, over to your one track agenda like you do.

It would be a new experience for you. (and for everybody else) You're supposed to be a lawyer, right? Surely you have some pocket change.

[John317]

Here goes another thread shot to hell in a handbasket..

Speaking as moderator:

NO, it won't, Pam. I won't let it happen. The posts that are not on topic will be deleted.

[Musicman1228]

Hey Dr. Rich,

Let's just leave them alone as they seem to be trying to find a good reason to become inspired to study the Bible, as if truth is not enough. They are looking toward 'devotional readings' and I am looking to become one/united with the Truth, who's name is Jesus Christ. They don't care what they believe as long as it makes them feel good, kind of like a drug. Our good feelings come when we uncover some new truth that has eluded us up until now. It's all a matter of perspective, and we just don't have their perspective.

[Overaged]

I have found that Bible study can be done on all kinds of different levels. From simple to complex. From devotional, to complex/in depth exegesis/inductive methods. This topic is not intended for those who do not believe in the Bible or in Christianity. It is for those who would like to explore all these different ways of study. While these "ways" can include a bit about how the Bible was written, by whom; etc, the whole Book stands so well on it's own that I will depend on that fact, rather than get all worried about that end of it.

It is natural for sincere seekers of truth to ask questions when they study/read a Bible. And there is a difference between studying and reading. Both are OK; but there are differences. People should learn a bit about both. But nevertheless, questions are a part of our experience with God's Word.

As we develop the question-asking skill; we need to remember that we are not doing it for the sake of collecting questions, or for the purpose of winning some debate or contest, or to "prove" someone wrong! No. This is not what God intends. We should not be asking questions just for the purpose of challenging/contradicting others:

Quote:

"It does not require much learning or ability to ask questions that are difficult to answer. A child may ask questions over which the wisest man would be puzzled. Let us not engage in a contest of this kind." Ellen G White; Testimonies To Ministers and Gospel Workers, pg 109

We must strive always to develop our question-asking skills in order to increase awareness of what is in the Bible, just as it reads.

More to come soon.

[Overaged]

The Book That Endures

“Heaven and earth shall pass away; but my words shall not pass away.”

Jesus always pointed to the Scriptures as being of unquestionable authority. God’s people should also do the same. The Bible is to be presented as the infinite Word of God, as the end of all controversy, as the foundation of all faith.

There are churches who teach that “church authority” comes before Scripture; matching up with the infamous Voltaire who boastingly said: “I am weary of hearing people repeat that twelve men established the Christian religion. I will prove that one man will suffice to over-throw it.” There is a Church with “one man” who claims superior authority over the Bible; thus joining with millions of people who have joined Voltaire’s quest and declared war on the Word of God. But in all the turmoil thus resulting, we can rejoice that so far from being destroyed, that where there were a hundred in Voltaire’s time, there are now ten thousand, yes! Even hundreds of thousands of copies of the Bible!

In the words of an early reformer, concerning the Christian Church: “The Bible is an anvil that has worn out many hammers!” Thus saith the Lord: “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper, and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.” (Isa.54:17).

At this time, before the great final crises, (Rev.3:10), just as in the case immediately preceding the world’s first destruction, people are becoming totally engrossed in all the pleasures and pursuits of the senses; most pointedly, reducing everything in life to business and commerce. Totally absorbed with the seen and the transitory in life, people around the world are losing sight of the unseen and the eternal. For all the many things that perish with the using, people are choosing to sacrifice imperishable riches…from the rise and fall of the nations, as made plain in the pages of the Holy Bible, we need to learn just how vain is the mere, outward glory of worldly policy.

The Word of God is the only truly steadfast thing in our world. It is the only sure foundation. “Heaven and earth shall pass away,” said Jesus, but my words shall not pass away.”

“The Word of God shall stand forever.” “All His commandments are sure, they stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.” (Isa.40:8, Ps.111:7-8). Whatever is built upon the authority of human beings will be overthrown; but that which is founded upon the rock of God’s immutable Word shall stand forever.

[Musicman1228]

Overage quoting EGW: "It does not require much learning or ability to ask questions that are difficult to answer. A child may ask questions over which the wisest man would be puzzled. Let us not engage in a contest of this kind." Ellen G White; Testimonies To Ministers and Gospel Workers, pg 109

This statement can be classified under the heading of 'misdirection'. Magicians use misdirection for the purpose of accomplishing the illusion right in front of the audience, such that the audience is looking one direction while the trick is being done in another direction. In actual fact the ability to learn how to ask good questions (whether difficult or not) is the key to becoming educated. EGW demonstrated a remarkable talent for this kind of misdirection.

Of course she would say that we are not to engage in asking difficult questions where she called it a mere contest because she did not want to have to answer those kinds of tough questions. There are many instances of this occurring in her ministry where she either answered with "The Lord showed me . . ." as an excuse for not giving a direct answer, got upset at the questioner and threatened dire consequences should they continue to demand answers, or just ignore it and hope it would go away. (If you don't know what I am talking about then you really haven't read EGW sufficiently.)

Saying that the questioning of sources is not allowed on this thread is participating in the same kind of misdirection, and will lead to both intellectually and spiritually deficient or outright erroneous understanding. True understanding of anything is only a result of the quality and depth of the sources used. Ellen White demonstrated the shallowness and incompleteness of her own education by making the above statement.

[John317]

Saying that the questioning of sources is not allowed on this thread is participating in the same kind of misdirection, and will lead to both intellectually and spiritually deficient or outright erroneous understanding.

You agreed a long time ago not to hijack discussions with these ideas but to talk about them on seperate threads. If you want to discuss those things endlessly, you will need to do it on threads that are designed for those topics. Otherwise it is hijacking the discussions.

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

Saying that the questioning of sources is not allowed on this thread is participating in the same kind of misdirection, and will lead to both intellectually and spiritually deficient or outright erroneous understanding.

You agreed a long time ago not to hijack discussions with these ideas but to talk about them on seperate threads. If you want to discuss those things endlessly, you will need to do it on threads that are designed for those topics. Otherwise it is hijacking the discussions.

No John, I do not have any intention to hijack this thread. I was merely pointing out that when you don't allow certain information that might be important to a complete understanding of a subject you cannot come to a reliable conclusion. This is the same kind of thing the Catholic church did to Galileo Galilei to prevent him from proving that the Catholic church's idea that the earth was the center of the universe. I did not mention any of that pertinent information, I just pointed out that without it the conclusions you come too would be skewed and biased in favor of the information that was not disallowed. You can, however, do whatever you want.

[John317]

I was merely pointing out that when you don't allow certain information that might be important to a complete understanding of a subject you cannot come to a reliable conclusion. This is the same kind of thing the Catholic church did to Galileo Galilei to prevent him from proving that the Catholic church's idea that the earth was the center of the universe. I did not mention any of that pertinent information, I just pointed out that without it the conclusions you come too would be skewed and biased in favor of the information that was not disallowed. You can, however, do whatever you want.

I have no interest in keeping any information or even viewpoints from anyone. All I'm concerned with is to keep discussions from getting bogged down in the same questions about the canon and about Ellen White. Those ideas and topics can be, and should be, discussed on particular threads designed for them. People don't feel like they should have to discuss those things every time they mention Paul or quote Ellen White. It would be like having to go back over all the arguments for creationism every time someone mentions Genesis 1 and 2. Or prove that Christ existed every time someone mentions their belief in Christ.

So I'm not saying the topic is not important or that it should never be discussed, but only that there is a time and a place for it.

[Overaged]

The Book That Endures

In the words of an early reformer, concerning the Christian Church: “The Bible is an anvil that has worn out many hammers!” Thus saith the Lord: “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper, and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.” (Isa.54:17).