The Holy Bible: Pure and Simple

[Musicman1228]

John said, "May the Lord add His blessing to the reading of His Word."

Let me get this straight John: by saying this benediction after citing EGW you are stating that you believe that the writings of EGW are the very Words of God?

[Guest]

Here we go again. And John didn't say it, Overaged said it.

[Overaged]

Here we go again. And John didn't say it, Overaged said it.

Ya, what Richard said.

You show over and over again Mr Musicman how you cannot read accurately because you are on a set program here to find and do one thing only. I certainly didn't even come close to saying what you said I did. Ellen White wrote a lot of good solid counsel about Bible study. It can all be backed up by the Bible; show me one thing in my last post that can't be, and I will show you where it can be.

This whole thread is about HOW to study the Bible, and what the Bible is or is not; but the emphasis is on how to study. My "benediction" was aimed at people who make a new, or a renewed commitment to Jesus and His Word, and intend to order their lives according to this Word. "May the Lord add His blessing, to the reading of His Word," is pretty clear, and if Ellen White wrote something with God's Word in it; there's nothing you can do about it. You are obviously here to "set us straight" and you will fail eternally at this.

Our wish in this topic is to learn how to study; if that's not your wish, please leave us alone. If I was Moderator here; I would have no qualms about deleting all your posts for trolling and spamming.

[Twilight]

You are right OA.

MM and DR.R are engaging in trolling and spamming threads, with this constant "Paul is a tool of the devil and so is Ellen White", every time someone quotes a scripture.

I for one am not interested in this point of view in any way whatsoever and wish this constant hijaking would stop.

[Musicman1228]

I thought it was a fair question based on the length the citation, and the fact that John called EGW's writings the 'word of God'. I guess you all believe it is. Oh well.

[Overaged]

I thought it was a fair question based on the length the citation, and the fact that John called EGW's writings the 'word of God'. I guess you all believe it is. Oh well.

Please check AGAIN! You have been told more than once John DID NOT WRITE THAT POST. I DID And show us the exact quote where I said "Ellen White's writings are the word of God."

[Overaged]

In my experience and from my dim view of the subject; the Bible has been made very complicated when it is actually pure and simple.

In the interest of continuing with the Op; I would like to choose a brief text from Scripture, and start to illustrate some of the principles touched upon already, in previous posts.

The text I am choosing for this illustration involves studying one of the names of God; which we find in Isaiah. The reason for my choice on this text will become apparent as we discuss this most interesting topic of HOW to study the Bible.

"Wonderful Counselor"

found in Isaiah 9:6

"The name of the Lord is a Strong Tower; the righteous run to it and are safe." (Proverbs 18:10)

As we study this text in Isaiah 9:6, let us recall something that Sister White wrote about it:

"The Bible is God's Voice speaking to us just as surely as though we could hear it with our ears." (6T 393). It really helps to remember this when looking at a passage of Scripture.

One of the ideas I would like to explore here is the teaching ministry of The Holy Spirit. We don't often concentrate so much on this idea as we usually do with other, more rational types of ideas such as devotional or inductional methods of Bible study.

So, in looking at Isaiah 9:6, what are our options? What, specifically can we do? How might we go about studying this text of the Bible?

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

[Overaged]

In any Bible passage that we want to study; Arthur Pink, in his book "The Divine Inspiration Of The Bible" writes the following, and I think it is good advice, for when we look at Isaiah 9:6

Quote:

Christianity is the religion of a Book. Christianity is based upon the impregnable rock of Holy Scripture. The starting point of all doctrinal discussion must be the Bible. Upon the foundation of the Divine inspiration of the Bible stands or falls the entire edifice of Christian truth.—"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?

(Psalm 11:3). Surrender the dogma of verbal inspiration or you are left like a rudderless ship on a stormy sea—at the mercy of every wind that blows. Deny that the Bible is, without any qualifications, the very Word of God, and you are left without any ultimate standard of measurement and without any supreme authority. It is useless to discuss any doctrine taught by the Bible until you are prepared to acknowledge, unreservedly, that the Bible is the final court of appeal. Grant that the Bible is a Divine revelation and communication of God's own mind and will to men, and you have a fixed starting point from which advance can be made into the domain of truth. Grant that the Bible is (in its original manuscripts) inerrant and infallible and you reach the place where study of its contents is both practicable and profitable.

—Divine Inspiration of the Bible, The

[John317]

John said, "May the Lord add His blessing to the reading of His Word."

Let me get this straight John: by saying this benediction after citing EGW you are stating that you believe that the writings of EGW are the very Words of God?

Wow, MM. I'm completely innocent of what you say I did. I do believe that Ellen White's messages to the church are "His Word," though. See 1 SM 25-40.

But they are not the canon. The canon is the Bible only. Everything else must be tested by the Bible-- that's the measuring stick of truth.

[Overaged]

I do believe that Ellen White's messages to the church are "His Word," though. See 1 SM 25-40.

[John317]

I do believe that Ellen White's messages to the church are "His Word," though. See 1 SM 25-40.

Originally Posted By: Overaged

It is incorrect to say it like this. Ellen White's writings are about God's Word, they may contain God's Word, but THEY ARE NOT GOD'S WORD.

I agree that it is incorrect to express it that way. I would never call her writings "the word of God," mainly for fear that it would be misunderstood. Christ Himself and the Scriptures are alone God's word. What I mean to say is that I believe her visions and writings were inspired by the Holy Spirit the same as the prophets of old were inspired. However, her writings are not a part of the canon and therefore are not "the word of God." All her writings and her ministry are subject to the standard of the Bible.

[John317]

... I picked Isaiah 9:6-7 for a special reason for us to try out this basic concept on. Can you comment a bit on my posts regarding this Biblical passage?

I like what you've said so far in that post about Isaiah 9: 6-7 and am interested in knowing more of your thoughts of it before I comment. I do completely agree with your quote that the Bible is the voice of God to us as surely as if God were speaking directly to us individually. We should understand this clearly every time we open the Bible and pray that Christ's Spirit will give us a teachable attitude and guide our thinking.

[Overaged]

Quote:

One of the ideas I would like to explore here is the teaching ministry of The Holy Spirit. We don't often concentrate so much on this idea as we usually do with other, more rational types of ideas such as devotional or inductional methods of Bible study.

So, in looking at Isaiah 9:6, what are our options? What, specifically can we do? How might we go about studying this text of the Bible?

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Quote:

I like what you've said so far in that post about Isaiah 9: 6-7 and am interested in knowing more of your thoughts of it before I comment.

As we can see in another thread I started; Pass The Envelope Please, there is a lot involved when we look at the names of God. If we wanted to really prove the trinity doctrine; Isaiah 9:6 would be an excellent springboard to begin with.

"His name shall be called...Counsellor." This means, that among all the other names of God, and their individual characteristics, God promises to be our Counsellor, through The Holy Spirit. Inherently, this would include when we study the Bible. We need His Spirit to help us in this effort. Using the Bible only concepts we have just discussed, the scriptures say it like this:

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

It is precisely, in this way, that the teaching ministry of The Holy Spirit is made available both to the Church, and to each of us, as individuals in the church. In considering How To Study The Bible; we need not waste our breath trying to dispute which portions of scripture are "real" and just adding more confusion to the picture, for in this teaching ministry of The Holy Spirit, we have all the counsel we need,and no one ever has experienced this teaching ministry, and come out of it not believing some part of the Bible.

There are some principles of Bible interpretation that seem to go without saying; others are debated, and still others are commonly accepted, but not so easily used. I think it's safe to say that this third circumstance especially (listed below) would aptly describe the teaching ministry of The Holy Spirit in Bible study. This teaching ministry takes place in all three steps, but the third one hits closest to home. This certainly does not mean that we should wait to study the Bible until all such debates are settled! Digging deep into The Word will actually help us to discover sound principles of interpretation. We actually do not need to know all of these principles of interpretation before we begin to study either, because it is also quite possible to begin and learn as we go. As our selected passage from Isaiah 9:6 says: "Of the increase of His government shall be no end;" (Isaiah 9:7) and His government is through His Word, and the "counsel" or teaching ministry of His/our Counsellor. (Isaiah 9:6)

I believe, from my own personal experience and study that there are, in effect, three simple steps to Bible study:

1/ Observe

2/ Interpret

3/ Apply

Although none of these steps really happen in isolation from one another, it is still possible to emphasize just one at a time. I can't remember where I read it, but HMS Richards once said that the prophecies of the Bible are not always easy to understand. But then he added: "Neither is solid geometry." Many feel like this kind of topic is a bit like "solid geometry," but that's not usually because it is difficult; but because it takes a lot of perseverence and effort to interpret and apply even a very simple verse from scripture. We must remember that the skills of Bible interpretation remain fairly meaningless, unless we personally practice them; and practice the counsel that The Spirit reveals to us.

We live in an age where 90% of people use books other than the Bible for their personal devotions; and this is so strange because Jesus says: "The Words that I have spoken to you; THEY are Spirit and life." and, as I already discussed briefly above, Ellen White says: "The Bible is God's Voice speaking to us, just as surely as though we could hear it with our ears." (6T 393). Arthur Pink, that I also quoted above is just one of many Protestant scholars who would agree with this basic tenet.

Just think what people are missing when they choose to make the Bible their number one study source! It is my personal goal to consider carefully, in each post, some aspect of the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit in Bible study. One thing that I chose Isaiah 9:6-7 for in this study is that it has helped me to personally practice the presence of our teacher (Counsellor) in my Bible study experience. I believe this alone is one of the, if not the, most important Bible study skill made available to us. But more on that in the next post! I am out of time!

[skyblue888]

Scripture is explained by Scripture.

And yes the Bible is the voice of God speaking to us. Take the ten commandments for example. Accepted by the will, received into the soul as the voice of God, they are Spirit and they are life. (John 6:63,68) They impart power, they beget life, even a new life in Christ Jesus. In other words, the ten commandments are the voice of God from Heaven speaking to the soul in promise. Received as such every command becomes a promise, a most positive promise of their own fulfilment.

Just another way of saying that to those who daily come to God just as they are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour for their salvation (Rom.3;25), the ten commandments become exceedingly great and precious promises by which they become partakers of the Divine Nature that they may escape the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:4)

sky

[Overaged]

So true, sky!

As one Adventist scholar has put it:

Quote:

Let the Bible Speak for Itself

A wholesome lesson always begins with healthy interpretation. So you must come to terms with the text before you can have anything meaningful to share from it. That’s why no-nonsense interpreters follow a hermeneutic, a sound system of principles that allows the text to speak for itself through exegesis, a procedure that consistently leads the truth out of Bible texts. Hermeneutics refers to the machinery, and exegesis to the method, of biblical interpretation. Hence Jesus could claim: “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9), because according to John 1:18, He “led [the Greek verb is the root from which we get our word “exegete”] the Father out to us.” The Father accurately expressed Himself through Jesus because Jesus allowed Him to represent Himself. Similarly, the only way truth can communicate with us through the text is for it to speak for itself.

Gugliotto, L. J. (2001, c2000, 1995). Handbook for Bible study : A guide to understanding, teaching, and preaching the word of God (electronic ed.). Hagerstown, MD: Review and Herald Publishing Association.

When I have a little more time, in the next post, I want to try to apply this to the text which I chose to use for an example of HOW to study the Bible, Isaiah 9:6-7