Heretic.

[phkrause]

with friends like that ....

will keep him humble....

[SivartM]

Oh yeah. I certainly don't get enough humiliation.

[Woody]

Well SivartM ... with all the abuse that is heaped upon you ... I think you certainly show good restraint.

[phkrause]

Oh yeah. I certainly don't get enough humiliation.

LOL, I guess you do with that new avatar you have. LOL

[Guest]

There's a difference between humility, and humiliation.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

Oh yeah. I certainly don't get enough humiliation.

LOL, I guess you do with that new avatar you have. LOL

Every now and then you get off a good one pk.

[SivartM]

There's a difference between humility, and humiliation.

Humiliation: Depriving one of self-esteem.

But though that is the definition that I was using, the definition you were thinking of is more like "causing someone to be more humble".

[Bravus]

Encouragement, affirmation and mutual support are all Biblical concepts.

[Woody]

Encouragement, affirmation and mutual support are all Biblical concepts.

[Guest]

Humiliation: Depriving one of self-esteem.

But though that is the definition that I was using, the definition you were thinking of is more like "causing someone to be more humble".

I don't think I've ever caused that to happen. Maybe once when I was little, but that involved the neigborhood bully.

[karl]

the definition you were thinking of is more like "causing someone to be more humble".

That is impossible. You can encourage someone to be more humble, but you can't cause him to be.

[abelisle]

Sivart,

Remember this: Progressive truth is sometimes enshrouded within the veils of heresy and iconoclasts have been put to death.

Just ask the Pharisees about that mendicant preacher/healer called Jesus of Nazareth.

Alex

[olger]

Please don't feed the drama queens.

g

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

Perhaps apostate is a better word to use.

Maybe we could not call them anything at all. Except maybe "Steve" or "Esmeralda" or whatever their names are.

I think that would do a dis-service to the truth. We need to call sin by its right name. Apostate Protestantism will lead the world back to Rome. As part of the Three Angels' Messages, we are called to warn the Earth of that. To do otherwise would be sinful neglect in its worst form.

[John317]

Synonyms of heretic:

schismatic

pagan

dissenter

sectarian

separationist

skeptic

nonconformist

1. a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.

2. In the Roman Catholic Church, it means . a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.

3. anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.

Some related verses from the New Testament:

Titus 1:6-11

If anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. [7] For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, [8] but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. [9] He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

[10] For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. [11] They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach.

Titus 3:8-11

The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people. [9] But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. [10] As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, [11] knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

James 1:26

If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.

1 Tim. 6:3-5

If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, [4] he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, [5] and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.

2 Tim. 2:22-26

So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. [23] Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. [24] And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, [25] correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, [26] and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

2 Tim. 3:1-5

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. [2] For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, [3] heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, [4] treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, [5] having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

2 Tim. 3:10-17

You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, [11] my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. [12] Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, [13] while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. [14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it [15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. [16] All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righ teousness, [17] that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

[Dr. Shane]

Oh yeah. I certainly don't get enough humiliation.

Humility and humiliation are two different things. I am not even convinced they are related although the spelling certainly is similar.

Humiliation is when we get embarrassed because of something we have said or done. This makes one feel degraded, dishonored or shamed.

Humility is when we know that we have much to learn from others around us. The dictionary defines it as, "modest opinion or estimate of one's own importance, rank, etc."

Humiliation does not cause a person to be humble either. Perhaps the only connection between the two is that it is more difficult for a humble person to be humiliated than it is for a prideful person.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Humiliation can also come by someone else's actions, like when someone tells embarrassing, private things about you to someone else, in your presence, or even if you aren't there and you find out about it.

[Kevin H]

I think that would do a dis-service to the truth. We need to call sin by its right name. Apostate Protestantism will lead the world back to Rome. As part of the Three Angels' Messages, we are called to warn the Earth of that. To do otherwise would be sinful neglect in its worst form.

While you are on the right track Shane, we need to be careful to remember that Rome was only the 4th head with the Papacy being the 5th head and not the whole beast. Both the Papacy and Apostate Protestantism will lead us to the 7th head and needs the warning you are remindng us to give.

Satan is catching most Christians by Dispensationalism. And he is catching most Adventists by making the 5th head the entire beast and making us stop in our studys where our pioneers fell.

[John317]

Quote:

Kevin H:

Satan is catching most Christians by Dispensationalism. And he is catching most Adventists by making the 5th head the entire beast and making us stop in our studys where our pioneers fell.

I think the evidence shows that Satan has also managed to get the attack by the Little Horn power against the heavenly sanctuary right into the Seventh-day Adventist Church, the very church that God raised up for the purpose of teaching the Investigative Judgment. So many of our ministers either don't understand it or believe it or they are afraid to preach it. It's common today for Adventist congregations to go years without hearing anything about it.

[Kevin H]

Yes John, that is definetely slowing us down. We use to have cutting edge theologians, Thiele, Lynn Harper Wood, Heppenstal, Horn etc. that kept us in the front line of Biblical studies. Conservative but open to the facts. But then we saw so many of the deep Biblical scholars of other faiths give up their faith and we blaimed their aposticy on deep Bible study and opted for a moderately deep but make sure it stays in a fundamentalist swiming pool of Bible study, and most of our members don't even go that far but limit our Bible study to the wading pool of tradition. I am sad when I watch 3ABN, one of my friends from college (I won't do too well spelling his name and that does not matter who he is) but all he is doing is repeating tradition, but I guess that is where the paycheck in ministry is. Too many complain if they don't have their traditions repeated

This fear of Bible study has kept us from getting a stronger knowlege of the Investigative Judgment; and also, I understand that part of the Investigative Judgment is to live durring a time where we can study the Bible like never before and investigate it's pages.

It's been a few years since I last went into detail on my understanding of the Investigative Judgment I need to see if I can find a day over the summer to post again.

[olger]

So Herhard Hasel and Bill Shea are not deep theologians by your judgement?

Or Stephen Bohr..

[Neil D]

Synonyms of heretic:

schismatic

pagan

dissenter

sectarian

separationist

skeptic

nonconformist

1. a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.

2. In the Roman Catholic Church, it means . a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.

3. anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.

I am sorry, but the word "skeptic" is not a heretic....Skeptic describes an individual who is in transition between becoming a believer or a non-believer [aka atheist in the religious sense]. It is a temporary position only. the problem is no one knows how long it will take someone to believe or reject the prinicples in question... A skeptic muses/mulls/ponders/thinks about/reviews all the evidence for and against the priniciples in deciding which path he will choose...but choose he must, and he will either choose against those prinicples, and thus accept all arguements against the principle or becomes a believer, accepting the principles as valid for his life....All of us were skeptics at one time or another...and we all choose to the path where we are at at this moment in time.....

[phkrause]

Yes John, that is definetely slowing us down. We use to have cutting edge theologians, Thiele, Lynn Harper Wood, Heppenstal, Horn etc. that kept us in the front line of Biblical studies. Conservative but open to the facts. But then we saw so many of the deep Biblical scholars of other faiths give up their faith and we blaimed their aposticy on deep Bible study and opted for a moderately deep but make sure it stays in a fundamentalist swiming pool of Bible study, and most of our members don't even go that far but limit our Bible study to the wading pool of tradition. I am sad when I watch 3ABN, one of my friends from college (I won't do too well spelling his name and that does not matter who he is) but all he is doing is repeating tradition, but I guess that is where the paycheck in ministry is. Too many complain if they don't have their traditions repeated

This fear of Bible study has kept us from getting a stronger knowlege of the Investigative Judgment; and also, I understand that part of the Investigative Judgment is to live durring a time where we can study the Bible like never before and investigate it's pages.

It's been a few years since I last went into detail on my understanding of the Investigative Judgment I need to see if I can find a day over the summer to post again.

Not sure I agree with your assessment of 3ABN, at least not all of the speakers or programs. But that's only my opinion.

[Gerr]

RE: 3ABN

My wife has it up to her neck about the constant stream of "10 commandment weekend" sermons. I think she has a point. There's a danger of slipping back into the pre-1888 over-emphasis on the law. It's time they start having a GRACE WEEKEND for a change.

[Dr. Shane]

Grace should be part of presenting the Ten Commandments. I don't think grace should be taught apart from the Ten Commandments nor the Commandments taught apart from grace.