Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 Do you believe the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy? Yes, the angels of God and demons can put thoughts in our minds, and we have the freedom to reject those thoughts or accept them. Demon possessed persons sometimes hear voices telling them to do evil things. This book was written by an SDA pastor: http://lnfbooks.com/The-War-Is-Real-Allen-Vaughn/M/1572582693.htm You may be able to get it at the ABC. Read it. It is based on about 20 years of his experience in helping people become free of Satan. He also wrote a very good book called, You Can Be Free. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 I know you've said before that you believe the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy, but I am asking if you really do believe it, because if you do, why would you ask if angels and demons talk into our brains or if that is a rather outdated idea. Jesus told some disciples who said they believed the Bible that they were slow of heart to believe ALL that the Bible said. See Luke 24: 25-26. By "talking into our brains," I assume you mean suggest thoughts and ideas, feelings, etc. If that is what you mean, the answer is, yes, of course. Both the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy are full of references to these things happening. People are influenced by both the demons and by the angels of God and by the Holy Spirit. See Acts 8: 26 and 29 for examples of angels and the Holy Spirit putting thoughts in people's minds. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
teresaq Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 i could be wrong but i think sivartm is trying to understand the idea, to go beyond a superficial reading.... facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 Yes, it would certainly be good to get beyond superficial reading. Such reading is the cause of many thinking that demon possession and angels speaking to people are things of the past or that don't happen in modern America. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 During Ellen White's ministry in Australia, she had a very close working relationship with Elder A. G. Daniles, then President of the Australiasian Union Conference. The Lord revealed to Ellen White that a Literature Evangelist named Nathaniel David was possessed by an evil spirit. Daniel's, in turn, was drafted as God's reluctant human instrument to set him free. Ellen White wrote to Daniells and told him that evil angels were all about Nathaniel Davis and at times have control of him in a strange, revolting way. She said that she had the word from the Lord that this man was possessed by an evil spirit. You can read both Davis' letters and Ellen White's correspondence with Daniells. These are quoted and the references given in the book Victory On the Battlefield by Vaughn Allen, published by TEACH SERVICES. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 The only way we can know these things is by special revelation, not through human reasoning. We know about the demons and the angels and the Holy Spirit simply on the basis of what God has told us through his prophets and apostles. Yes, the angels, both the fallen and the unfallen ones, go with us wherever we go. The demons can't read our minds but they know us personally very well-- know all of our weaknesses better than we know ourselves--- and have had thousands of years to study human psychology and they read our expressions, etc., like a book. Seventh-day Adventist are the special objects of Satan's attacks. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members abelisle Posted July 12, 2010 Members Posted July 12, 2010 How do you know this? (that demons can't read our minds) Is your knowledge Biblical? Can angels read our minds? Alex We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 Yes, angels of God read our minds. If you believe the Bible and Ellen White, angels write down (or record in some way) our thoughts. How do I know? I only know because I accept special revelation from God through the Bible and Ellen White. Of course this depends on whether you choose to believe those sources. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members abelisle Posted July 12, 2010 Members Posted July 12, 2010 So, once again I ask you where in the Bible does it tell us that demons can't read our minds and that angels can and do read our minds? I have been warned by others and yourself that I shouldn't believe things that I believe to be inspired unless it is Biblical but in this case, you haven't given any specific Biblical evidence. Isn't this a dangerous and slippery slope to go down if all we can rely on is what we "think" and "feel" is inspired? Alex We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
Members abelisle Posted July 12, 2010 Members Posted July 12, 2010 John, Where is the Biblical evidence for your statements? You aren't avoiding me, are you? Alex We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 What specific statements? I don't try to avoid anyone. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members abelisle Posted July 12, 2010 Members Posted July 12, 2010 The specific statements regarding demon angels not being able to read minds but good angels can. We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 OK, now I see why you asked if I'm trying to avoid you-- you asked some questions I didn't see before. I think you misunderstand about the necessity of having Bible evidence for everything. Ellen White wrote things that are not in the Bible, but does that mean we shouldn't believe it? That wouldn't make sense, would it? What we know about angels and demons come from both sources, the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy. For Seventh-day Adventists who believe in and accept in Ellen White's gift of prophecy, that is no problem. If you want me to find exact quotes for you, you'll have to give me some time to do your research for you. I don't mind-- I do it often. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members abelisle Posted July 12, 2010 Members Posted July 12, 2010 OK, John. What you're saying is that there is no Biblical evidence and we must rely on EGW. OK, show me where she specifically addresses the matter of angels reading or not being able to read minds. Thanks Alex We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 Ellen White never said or meant that people should only accept her statements if they can find them in the Bible. If that was true, why write all those tens of thousands of pages? Why not just copy the Bible? Her point is if she writes anything that plainly contradicts the teachings of Scripture, we should reject her (not just the sentence that we think is contrary to Scripture) and stay with the Bible. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 Sometimes it's necessary to rely on Ellen White. As a church, we had to do that on some health issues before science showed she was right. After years of studying her writings and her life, I have no troubel trusting her because I know she was a true prophet of God. Everyone has to decide this issue on their own. But I trust her for the same reason that I learned to trust the Bible. Both were inspired by the same Spirit. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members abelisle Posted July 12, 2010 Members Posted July 12, 2010 John, I don't have a problem with that. Just show me where she speaks about angels reading or not reading minds. Alex We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 By the way, there's a wonderful collection of her writings on angels, called, The Truth About Angels. She says in there that evil angels will appear as humans, and so will good angels. In fact, she says this has already happened before. She also says evil angels will appear in the SDA church and bring in false doctrines in order to cause division. Evil angels will incite persecution. It's about 300 pages, a great book if you believe in angels and in Ellen White. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members abelisle Posted July 12, 2010 Members Posted July 12, 2010 Thank you John. I assume this is another compilation of her writings? But I'm still waiting for the specific evidence you cited about angels reading or not being able to read our minds. Alex We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
teresaq Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 yes, i would like to see that also. while i know the statement about our thoughts being recorded i cant remember any time she says good angels can read our thoughts, or, for that matter, that God gave good angels certain powers but not evil angels...especially considering the fact that the evil angels were once good... facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Members abelisle Posted July 12, 2010 Members Posted July 12, 2010 BTW, reading the early chapters of The Truth About Angels is like reading a close paraphrase of Milton's Paradise Lostwhich ironically she said she didn't read when asked about it after an early church leader saw it in her library. Alex We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
SivartM Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 How do angels and demons communicate with us? Through words? Or maybe through our senses? "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Members abelisle Posted July 13, 2010 Members Posted July 13, 2010 But don't you think that when things are asserted as facts (angels reading our minds) that some evidence should be shown to ascertain their credibility? Alex We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
SivartM Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 I'm also curious as to why good angels can supposedly read our minds while bad ones cannot. "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Moderators John317 Posted July 13, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 13, 2010 You seem to mention this every time the subject is possible. Have you studied into this question far enough to go further than simply the observation that she said some things that agreed with Milton's great poem? Your observation is not anything new but is repeating things that have been known for a long time. When I took a class in Milton's poetic works, we talked about it then, but no one was implying or insinuating dishonesty on the part of Ellen White. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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