What Ellen White Says About Angels and Demons

[abelisle]

Please respond to my question re:angels.

This is just a diversionary tactic I fear.

I mentioned Paradise Lost because some Adventists are not aware of this.

[John317]

In order to know why good angels can read our thoughts and evil angels can't, one must go beyond mere human reasoning. The only way we know this is that God has revealed it to us. If we want to limit outselves to human reasoning and conjecture, all we have is opinion, and no one's is necessarily any better than another.

Assuming that you're really interested in knowing about the angels, check out under angels in the Comprehensive Index To the Writings of Ellen G. White. It contains wonderful, amazing information about them on about 20 pages. I think all the answers your questions are there, such as whether they actually go places with us and whether they can read our thoughts, etc, whether they influence our thinking and feelings, etc.

If you have Counsels on Health, look at page 412. Also PP 54: par 0.

[abelisle]

I read it.

God is the one who reveals it, not angels reading our minds in the source you have provided.

BTW, I read all the other info you suggested and nowhere did I find where it was mentioned that angels can read our minds/thoughts as you have said.

This is not about human reasoning but about backing up what one asserts as fact with evidence and in this case evidence from a mutually acceptable inspired source.

Alex

[Tom Wetmore]

Continuing on...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Elementary, my dear Watson!

Here's another question: If good angels can read people's minds, then could they read the mind of Jesus when He was here on earth? Can they read His mind now, since He is still in human form?

[Guest]

I tend to doubt it.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I don't think angels, good or bad, can read people's minds; I think they can *read* us, though, and act on our apparent actions, needs, wants - all determined by our previous behavior (words and actions).

For instance, if a person is selfish, he/she will have carried out that behavior at some point, in some way, in the past. I think angels can then do things that will either enhance that behavior, or help find a way *past* that behavior.

Does that make sense? It's late here...not quite up to thinking clearly...

[John317]

I read it.

God is the one who reveals it, not angels reading our minds in the source you have provided.

This is not about human reasoning but about backing up what one asserts as fact with evidence and in this case evidence from a mutually acceptable inspired source.

Here's the evidence:

Angels can't read our thoughts because of a natural power but because God gives them that ability. God gives them that power because of their work-- which is to record our motives, our internal, spiritual struggles as well as our secret prayers. They know and record when we repent, and obviously this is not only when we repent out loud.

We can't know people's motives because it requires us to know their hearts and minds. The angels know these things. Therefore they must be able to read our thoughts. People will have to meet their sinful thoughts and motives, "every secret thing." Ecc. 12: 14. It's all on the "books."

It is simply not true that God will Himself reveal these things about people, apart from what the angels record. If that were the case, why have the recording angels?

MH 412 shows that the context of God's bringing to light all of our sins is that the angels of God are recording our motives. The prophet says, "The thoughts, the intents and purposes of the heart, will stand revealed." How? Because God has "these messengers, [who] although unseen, are visitors in the bedchamber. The hidden works of darkness will be brought to light."

God has the recording angels doing this work for a good reason, and that is that the intelligent universe does not have to rely on God's word alone for the evidence of the lives of the saved and the lost. All their sins and their spiritual struggles, their repentence and sorrow for sin is all recorded for the universe to see and understand why people are lost and why others are saved.

"The dead are judged out of the things written in the books." GC 487. They are not judged by things that are not written in the books. Everything is written in the books, including our evil and good motives, and our evil and good thoughts.

If only our actions and words were recorded, it would only tell half the story of our lives, and much of that would be untrue. It's necessary to read our thoughts and our internal lives in order to understand our temptations and our spiritual struggles. That is not told by our actions alone or even primarily.

For instance, it says that our acts of love are recorded. GC 481. How can the angels tell when it is an act of love instead of just appearing to be? He has to be able to read our motives and thoughts in order to record these acts of love.

Are our words and actions recorded? Yes indeed. But that's not all-- even our motives and, yes, our thoughts. Where's the proof?

I leave you with several important, relevant paragraphs, provided you believe in the writings of Ellen White:

Quote:

"In the book of rememberance every deed of righteousness is immortalized. There every temptation resisted, every evil overcome, every word of tender pity expressed, is faithfully chronicled. And every act of sacrifice, every suffering and sorrow endured for Christ's sake, is recorded." GC 481

Anyone have serious doubts that this is talking about what people are thinking about? Or do the angels only record what we are doing and saying? How much do we suffer silently? How many times do we resist temptation and overcome evil secretly and without saying a word? Are those secret things irrelevant and unrecorded? Most certainly not.

Quote:

Sins that have not been repented of and forsaken will not be pardoned and blotted out of the books of record, but will stand to witness against the sinner in the day of God. He may have committed his evil deeds in the light of day or in the darkness of night; but they were open and manifest before Him with whom we have to do. Angels of God witnessed each sin and registered it in the unerring records. Sin may be concealed, denied, covered up from father, mother, wife, children, and associates; no one but the guilty actors may cherish the least suspicion of the wrong; but it is laid bare before the intelligences of heaven. The darkness of the darkest night, the secrecy of all deceptive arts, is not sufficient to veil one thought from the knowledge of the Eternal. God has an exact record of every unjust account and every unfair dealing. He is not deceived by appearances of piety. He makes no mistakes in His estimation of character. Men may be deceived by those who are corrupt in heart, but God pierces all disguises and reads the inner life.

How solemn is the thought! Day after day, passing into eternity, bears its burden of records for the books of heaven. Words once spoken, deeds once done, can never be recalled. Angels have registered both the good and the evil. The mightiest conqueror upon the earth cannot call back the record of even a single day. Our acts, our words, even our most secret motives, all have their weight in deciding our destiny for weal or woe. Though they may be forgotten by us, they will bear their testimony to justify or condemn. GC 486

Quote:

The hidden selfishness of men stands revealed in the books of heaven. There is the record of unfulfilled duties to their fellow men, of forgetfulness of the Saviour's claims. There they will see how often were given to Satan the time, thought, and strength that belonged to Christ. Sad is the record which angels bear to heaven. Intelligent beings, professed followers of Christ, are absorbed in the acquirement of worldly possessions or the enjoyment of earthly pleasures. Money, time, and strength are sacrificed for display and self-indulgence; but few are the moments devoted to prayer, to the searching of the Scriptures, to humiliation of soul and confession of sin. GC 487

Now what about the evil angels? Has God also given them the power to read our thoughts?

There is good reason to believe that they can't. Nor that they can read each other's thoughts. If angels can read each other's thoughts it would not have been possible for Satan to decieve them and to clothe his acts with mystery and make it difficult for the angels to see the true nature of his work. See GC 496, 497; also PP 37, 38.

The second piece of evidence that evil angels can't read the thoughts of humans is found on page 54 of Patriarchs and Prophets. Ellen White indicates that Satan could not read Eve's mind because when Satan was tempting Eve, Mrs. White says, "AS IF he were able to discern the workings of her [Eve's] mind, he addressed her, 'Yeah, hath God said, 'Ye shall nto eat of every tree of the garden?' Eve ws surprised and startled as she thus seemed to hear the echo of her thoughts."

It seems obvious from these words that Ellen White did not believe Satan could actually read Eve's mind or thoughts, but that it was "as if he were able to discern" them because he studied her expression and probably her body language. It is also possible that Eve talked out loud to herself. In any case, it seems reasonable to conclude from this that God has not given the devil and the fallen angels the power to read our thoughts. It seems that if they could read our thoughts, it would be give them an unfair advantage over us, when we are already so very vulnerable to the God's foes.

Finally, there the question that someone raised about whether the angels can read the mind of Jesus Christ. The answer is no. Why? Because the evidence is that God provides them the power and ability to read our thoughts for the purpose of recording them, and not simply because it's a natural ability that God gave to all the angels at the beginning. Again, there seems to be excellent reason to conclude that the angels could not read each other's thoughts before and during the war in heaven.

Question:

Once people realize the truth about this subject, is it possible that we will see any changes in people's attitudes and words towards each other on the Forum?

Just thinking "out loud."

[John317]

I tend to doubt it.

I agree with you that angels can't read the mind of Christ. In fact, as I wrote on my most recent post, we have very strong circumstantial evidence that angels can't read each other thoughts. But at the same time, I think you'll agree that the evidence definitely points in the direction that at least some of God's angels are able to read the thoughts and motives of human beings. Check out what I wrote and let me know your thoughts. Unlike the angels, I can't read your mind so you'll have to write them. lol

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

I tend to doubt it.

I agree with you that angels can't read the mind of Christ. In fact, as I wrote on my most recent post, we have very strong circumstantial evidence that angels can't read each other thoughts. But at the same time, I think you'll agree that the evidence definitely points in the direction that at least some of God's angels are able to read the thoughts and motives of human beings. Check out what I wrote and let me know your thoughts. Unlike the angels, I can't read your mind so you'll have to write them. lol

LOL. I agree with what you said, and I am already trying to be nicer to people.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: abelisle

I read it.

God is the one who reveals it, not angels reading our minds in the source you have provided.

This is not about human reasoning but about backing up what one asserts as fact with evidence and in this case evidence from a mutually acceptable inspired source.

Here's the evidence:

Angels can't read our thoughts because of a natural power but because God gives them that ability. God gives them that power because of their work-- which is to record our motives, our internal, spiritual struggles as well as our secret prayers. They know and record when we repent, and obviously this is not only when we repent out loud.

We can't know people's motives because it requires us to know their hearts and minds. The angels know these things. Therefore they must be able to read our thoughts. People will have to meet their sinful thoughts and motives, "every secret thing." Ecc. 12: 14. It's all on the "books."

It is simply not true that God will Himself reveal these things about people, apart from what the angels record. If that were the case, why have the recording angels?

MH 412 shows that the context of God's bringing to light all of our sins is that the angels of God are recording our motives. The prophet says, "The thoughts, the intents and purposes of the heart, will stand revealed." How? Because God has "these messengers, [who] although unseen, are visitors in the bedchamber. The hidden works of darkness will be brought to light."

God has the recording angels doing this work for a good reason, and that is that the intelligent universe does not have to rely on God's word alone for the evidence of the lives of the saved and the lost. All their sins and their spiritual struggles, their repentence and sorrow for sin is all recorded for the universe to see and understand why people are lost and why others are saved.

"The dead are judged out of the things written in the books." GC 487. They are not judged by things that are not written in the books. Everything is written in the books, including our evil and good motives, and our evil and good thoughts.

If only our actions and words were recorded, it would only tell half the story of our lives, and much of that would be untrue. It's necessary to read our thoughts and our internal lives in order to understand our temptations and our spiritual struggles. That is not told by our actions alone or even primarily.

For instance, it says that our acts of love are recorded. GC 481. How can the angels tell when it is an act of love instead of just appearing to be? He has to be able to read our motives and thoughts in order to record these acts of love.

Are our words and actions recorded? Yes indeed. But that's not all-- even our motives and, yes, our thoughts. Where's the proof?

I leave you with several important, relevant paragraphs, provided you believe in the writings of Ellen White:

Quote:

"In the book of rememberance every deed of righteousness is immortalized. There every temptation resisted, every evil overcome, every word of tender pity expressed, is faithfully chronicled. And every act of sacrifice, every suffering and sorrow endured for Christ's sake, is recorded." GC 481

Anyone have serious doubts that this is talking about what people are thinking about? Or do the angels only record what we are doing and saying? How much do we suffer silently? How many times do we resist temptation and overcome evil secretly and without saying a word? Are those secret things irrelevant and unrecorded? Most certainly not.

Quote:

Sins that have not been repented of and forsaken will not be pardoned and blotted out of the books of record, but will stand to witness against the sinner in the day of God. He may have committed his evil deeds in the light of day or in the darkness of night; but they were open and manifest before Him with whom we have to do. Angels of God witnessed each sin and registered it in the unerring records. Sin may be concealed, denied, covered up from father, mother, wife, children, and associates; no one but the guilty actors may cherish the least suspicion of the wrong; but it is laid bare before the intelligences of heaven. The darkness of the darkest night, the secrecy of all deceptive arts, is not sufficient to veil one thought from the knowledge of the Eternal. God has an exact record of every unjust account and every unfair dealing. He is not deceived by appearances of piety. He makes no mistakes in His estimation of character. Men may be deceived by those who are corrupt in heart, but God pierces all disguises and reads the inner life.

How solemn is the thought! Day after day, passing into eternity, bears its burden of records for the books of heaven. Words once spoken, deeds once done, can never be recalled. Angels have registered both the good and the evil. The mightiest conqueror upon the earth cannot call back the record of even a single day. Our acts, our words, even our most secret motives, all have their weight in deciding our destiny for weal or woe. Though they may be forgotten by us, they will bear their testimony to justify or condemn. GC 486

Quote:

The hidden selfishness of men stands revealed in the books of heaven. There is the record of unfulfilled duties to their fellow men, of forgetfulness of the Saviour's claims. There they will see how often were given to Satan the time, thought, and strength that belonged to Christ. Sad is the record which angels bear to heaven. Intelligent beings, professed followers of Christ, are absorbed in the acquirement of worldly possessions or the enjoyment of earthly pleasures. Money, time, and strength are sacrificed for display and self-indulgence; but few are the moments devoted to prayer, to the searching of the Scriptures, to humiliation of soul and confession of sin. GC 487

Now what about the evil angels? Has God also given them the power to read our thoughts?

There is good reason to believe that they can't. Nor that they can read each other's thoughts. If angels can read each other's thoughts it would not have been possible for Satan to decieve them and to clothe his acts with mystery and make it difficult for the angels to see the true nature of his work. See GC 496, 497; also PP 37, 38.

The second piece of evidence that evil angels can't read the thoughts of humans is found on page 54 of Patriarchs and Prophets. Ellen White indicates that Satan could not read Eve's mind because when Satan was tempting Eve, Mrs. White says, "AS IF he were able to discern the workings of her [Eve's] mind, he addressed her, 'Yeah, hath God said, 'Ye shall nto eat of every tree of the garden?' Eve ws surprised and startled as she thus seemed to hear the echo of her thoughts."

It seems obvious from these words that Ellen White did not believe Satan could actually read Eve's mind or thoughts, but that it was "as if he were able to discern" them because he studied her expression and probably her body language. It is also possible that Eve talked out loud to herself. In any case, it seems reasonable to conclude from this that God has not given the devil and the fallen angels the power to read our thoughts. It seems that if they could read our thoughts, it would be give them an unfair advantage over us, when we are already so very vulnerable to the God's foes.

Finally, there the question that someone raised about whether the angels can read the mind of Jesus Christ. The answer is no. Why? Because the evidence is that God provides them the power and ability to read our thoughts for the purpose of recording them, and not simply because it's a natural ability that God gave to all the angels at the beginning. Again, there seems to be excellent reason to conclude that the angels could not read each other's thoughts before and during the war in heaven.

Question:

Once people realize the truth about this subject, is it possible that we will see any changes in people's attitudes and words towards each other on the Forum?

Just thinking "out loud."

Great post John, and as to the last paragraph, I doubt it :(

[phkrause]

LOL. I agree with what you said, and I am already trying to be nicer to people.

I noticed

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

LOL. I agree with what you said, and I am already trying to be nicer to people.

I noticed

Why thank you pk.