Members abelisle Posted July 31, 2010 Members Posted July 31, 2010 I had an interesting experience the other day. My Pastor and I had a discussion about the SS quarterly lesson about justification and faith. During the conversation the issue of believers who have strident conservative views as opposed to more progressive liberal views affecting the understanding of the Bible's teaching of sin and salvation. During this conversation, my Pastor said he couldn't understand how a very conservative member could be a member of my SS class. I told him, "It's quite simple Pastor. Friendship trumps theology. " I bet many of us would get along better if we got to know each other on a real, personal basis not just the virtual reality level we have here on this forum. Eating with each other, playing with each other, studying , praying, worshipping . . . I believe strongly that friendships (which I equate with loving each other) would result in more compassionate conversation, more tolerance for different ideas, and a display of more grace. Wouldn't it be nice if we could arrange regional get togethers? Wouldn't it be nice to meet face to face - to see the real person behind the persona that our words present? Yes - "friendship trumps theology" - let us show that we are Jesus' disciples by how we love each other. Alex Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com
olger Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Who is your pastor then? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
doug yowell Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Does that mean that friendship and theology are mutually exclusive? Is this creating a new "friendship theology"? Does this new approach contradict the former teachings of Scripture (Prov.22:24 James 4:4 Jude 1:3-19 ICor.9:5-13 IIJohn7-11 Titus3:9,10 ect...) Quote
SivartM Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 People for whom friendship doesn't trump theology to some extent don't have any friends at all. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
doug yowell Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 People for whom friendship doesn't trump theology to some extent don't have any friends at all.So,the two are mutually exclusive? Quote
teresaq Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 perhaps we could start with just what exactly you read the op to say? Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790
Moderators Gerr Posted July 31, 2010 Moderators Posted July 31, 2010 I was going to ask the same question Doug asked until I saw his post. Maybe there was no such intention, but the statement - "Friendship Trumps Theology" - left me with the feeling as though the two were mutually exclusive. Quote
GoLions Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 I'm not a big C.S. Lewis fan, but I think there is a quote of his that goes something like this: Someone asked him the question, which is more important (such and such or such and such)? His reply was which blade of a scissors is more important? Friendship does not trump theology. Theology does not trump friendship. One without the other does you no good. Quote
SivartM Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 I don't think abelisle is saying that theology is not important but that we should not let theology get in the way of friendship. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Dr. Shane Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 I bet many of us would get along better if we got to know each other on a real, personal basis not just the virtual reality level we have here on this forum. Absolutely. One problem in cyber space is that people don't tend to give each other the benefit of the doubt like is so commonly practiced face-to-face. I have friends that disagree with me face-to-face in regard to religion and politics. Yet we care for each other and don't let our difference in opinion cause us to care less about each other. Many of my 12-step friends are not members of my church nor do they think the same as I do politically. However we care about each other in such a way that our religious or political difference are not going to change. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Members phkrause Posted July 31, 2010 Members Posted July 31, 2010 I'm not a big C.S. Lewis fan, but I think there is a quote of his that goes something like this: Someone asked him the question, which is more important (such and such or such and such)? His reply was which blade of a scissors is more important? Friendship does not trump theology. Theology does not trump friendship. One without the other does you no good. That's an interesting statement for sure. Because as I read through the post's and noticed a few had a problem with the title of this thread, I have to agree that theology has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative, so friendship and theology are not opposed to each other. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
WayneV Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal Sounds like LOVE, at least, trumps theology. So, if friendship is rooted in love, then friendship would also trump theology. Agape` Quote WayneV Just remember these words of warning, for they will come to pass all too soon: If you are ever flying through the desert and your canoe breaks down, remember that it takes three pancakes to lift the doghouse, because there ain't nary a bone in ice cream!
Neil D Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I am reminded that it's not the theology that you know [aka the 'what you know'], but Who you know that get you into heaven...... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw
doug yowell Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Originally Posted By: 1 Corinthians 13:1, NASB If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal Sounds like LOVE, at least, trumps theology. So, if friendship is rooted in love, then friendship would also trump theology. Agape` "Love...rejoices in the truth." (ICor.13:6)Would that include theological truth or does theological truth require love,and thus friendship? Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 2, 2010 Moderators Posted August 2, 2010 I don't think abelisle is saying that theology is not important but that we should not let theology get in the way of friendship. It doesn't get in the way with some people but with others it definitely does. We shouldn't feel afraid of telling the truth for fear of "offending" friends, but at the same time disagreements over theology or other subjects shouldn't make anyone feel less loving and caring about others, either. If disagreements do that, it would be better not to discuss our differences. 1 John 2:10-11 [10] Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. [11] But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Guest Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.... Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant... Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 2, 2010 Moderators Posted August 2, 2010 I told him, "It's quite simple Pastor. Friendship trumps theology. " I bet many of us would get along better if we got to know each other on a real, personal basis not just the virtual reality level we have here on this forum. Eating with each other, playing with each other, studying , praying, worshipping . . . ...Wouldn't it be nice if we could arrange regional get togethers? Wouldn't it be nice to meet face to face - to see the real person behind the persona that our words present? Yes - "friendship trumps theology" - let us show that we are Jesus' disciples by how we love each other. I like this and have thought the same things before, if by this you mean that disagreeing over issues shouldn't lead to being disagreeable with others. I hope we can do this even before we get together or see others face to face. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators Gerr Posted August 2, 2010 Moderators Posted August 2, 2010 Quote: Sounds like LOVE, at least, trumps theology. So, if friendship is rooted in love, then friendship would also trump theology. Agape` If theology is the study of God, THEN love & truth are at the very HEART of theology!!! "God IS love." "I am ...THE Truth." Quote
Woody Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Originally Posted By: 1 Corinthians 13:1, NASB If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal Sounds like LOVE, at least, trumps theology. So, if friendship is rooted in love, then friendship would also trump theology. Agape` Well stated. How true. This is something our churches need to fully understand. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
WayneV Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Doug and Richard, Gerry has a good point. If we know Jesus, we know Truth (John 14:6). If we know God, we know Love (1 John 4:8, 16). Therefore, what is important is to know God and the One that He sent. What is Truth? It was the same for the blind man and the woman with the issue of blood, "Jesus heals". Yet, Truth was also personal. For the blind man healing was facilitated by mud, created from dirt and spit, being applied to his infirmity. The woman, on the other hand, saw healing as being facilitated by simply touching the hem of the Savior's garment. Yet others were informed that it was their personal faith, which was responsible for healing from the Savior being able to take hold. Some of us seem to want to apply our "personal" Truth, our experience of Jesus, to everyone; failing to distinguish between personal relationship with Christ (Truth) and community relationship with Christ (Truth). This is a good discussion. Keep it going and keep it civil. Agape` Quote WayneV Just remember these words of warning, for they will come to pass all too soon: If you are ever flying through the desert and your canoe breaks down, remember that it takes three pancakes to lift the doghouse, because there ain't nary a bone in ice cream!
jsm Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 The Jews of Christ’s day believed right actions alone [by the letter of the law] would make them acceptable with God. But Jesus said, When you win a convert “you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.” “FIRST clean the inside—[the motive of love as the spirit of the law]—and then the outward actions will be clean also.” Matthew 23:15,26. "The pure motive sanctifies the act." EGW in Sanctified Life, 8. Matt 7:12. “The righteousness of Christ consists in right actions and good works from pure, unselfish MOTIVES. Outside righteousness, while the inward adorning is wanting, will be of no avail.” 3T 528. “Sin originated in self–seeking.” DA 21. And we cannot change those self-seeking motives without help: “Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.” Jeremiah 13:23. We can only develop pure motives through the power of the Holy Spirit as we focus our thoughts on Christ: “I will put My Spirit within you and cause you [MOTIVATE you] to walk in My statutes.” Ezekiel 36:27; Phil 2:13; 2 Cor 3:18. “Love is the basis of godliness. Whatever the profession, no man has pure love to God unless he has unselfish love for his brother. But we can never come into possession of this spirit by trying to love others. What is needed is the love of Christ in the heart. When self is merged in Christ, love springs forth spontaneously.” COL 383. “[Matthew 25:31-32 quoted]. Thus Christ on the Mount of Olives pictured to His disciples the scene of the great judgment day. And He represented its decision as turning upon one point. When the nations are gathered before Him, there will be but two classes, and their eternal destiny will be determined by what they have done or have neglected to do for Him in the person of the poor and the suffering.” DA 637. Quote
Rondo Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 How can friendship trump theology, WOW what a statement!! Theology the study of religious faith, practice, and experience; especially : the study of God and of God's relation to the world Friendship the state of being friends How can our friendship trump the study of God. If a friend says if you believe that, I can not be your friend any more, that hardly trumps the study of God and its findings tested against the Bible, does it??? Quote The 10 essence of Old Covenant
doug yowell Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 This is a good discussion. Keep it going and keep it civil. Agape` Does your theology demand civility? Can I be civil without being friendly? Quote
GreatLakesGramma Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 How can friendship trump theology, WOW what a statement!! ... How can our friendship trump the study of God. If a friend says if you believe that, I can not be your friend any more, that hardly trumps the study of God and its findings tested against the Bible, does it??? Rondo, that is exactly the opposite of what Alex said in the opening post. I think you need to go back and read it again. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 4, 2010 Members Posted August 4, 2010 During the conversation the issue of believers who have strident conservative views as opposed to more progressive liberal views affecting the understanding of the Bible's teaching of sin and salvation. Conservative view = strident (harsh) Liberal view = progressive (Note: I can't really think of a good synonym that fits) Interesting take on the two extremes of the continuum. ***** I think friendship trumps theology. Of course, it does. Or, at least, it should. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.