Are you going to heaven?

[Planey]

Pam, in answer to the question in the title of this post:

No I will not be there.

A lot of people (who know me) are genuinely grateful for this answer.

Graeme

[Neil D]

What are you basing your statement or belief on?

The Scripture are clear that the saved receive their immortal, perfect bodies at the resurrection, not at the end of the 1000 years. The Bible and Ellen White say that the earth is remade, not that the saved are remade.

Do perfect, immortal bodies need to be remade after 1000 years?

We are also told that we are to travel the worlds telling our conversion stories....Given the law of physics that we know, how are we to travel even the short distances of Alpha Centarii? Is God going to provide a space ship? I think not...Will we go there by worm holes? If so, this body has to be totally dissassembled and then reassembled on the other side...a process also known to destroy a person and then recreate him ...

Of course, you are correct, in that our immortal bodies are recieved after Jesus comes and gets us [i had forgotten this temporary]....This is true....but,then, will we be able to excercise faith with God in allowing Him to, essentially, kill us and recreate us as we travel from place to place thru the universe? Will that take more faith or less faith?

And what's to prevent God, while remaking the universe, to recreate us again? Is that going to be such a bit deal then? Just a thought....

[John317]

What are you basing your statement or belief on?

The Scripture are clear that the saved receive their immortal, perfect bodies at the resurrection, not at the end of the 1000 years. The Bible and Ellen White say that the earth is remade, not that the saved are remade.

Do perfect, immortal bodies need to be remade after 1000 years?

Originally Posted By: Neil D

We are also told that we are to travel the worlds telling our conversion stories....Given the law of physics that we know, how are we to travel even the short distances of Alpha Centarii? Is God going to provide a space ship?

Yes, the saved will travel there. That means we must be faithful to Christ to be among that group.

No, no space ship, Neil.

After the resurrection when we receive our new, perfect, immortal, glorified bodies, we will travel to heaven, which is an extremely long trip through space. It will take 7 days to get there, according to the prophet of God.

Does that sound like when the 1000 years are up, we will need our perfect, immortal bodies changed?

Remember that our resurrection bodies (given to the saved at the resurrection) will be like Christ's glorified body. He traveled twice with that body to heaven. Do you really think God hasn't planned for the travel to heaven? If Jesus made it, and if our perfect, immortal bodies make it fine after the resurrection, why would there be a change necessary after 1000 years?

If the Bible and the SOP are reliable, it won't be necessary.

[John317]

And what's to prevent God, while remaking the universe, to recreate us again? Is that going to be such a bit deal then? Just a thought....

It's not about whether it is just a big deal. It is about whether there's any biblical or SOP evidence for it, and there isn't. On the contrary, it goes against the biblical evidence, which is that long before the 1000 years, the saints will already have received perfect, immortal, glorified bodies. Check out 1 Cor. 15 and 1 Thess. 4: 13-18.

What happens to perfect bodies if they are changed? Can they be changed and become more perfect? Of course not. A perfect body can't be changed without becoming less perfect.

But another biblical teaching we have to consider is that the bodies of the saints will be like Christ's glorified body, and Christ had no trouble traveling through space.

God will not remake Christ's perfect, glorified body, too, will He?

Then why would God remake the immortal bodies of the saints, since being immortal means not subject to death?

Do you really think that God would give us perfect, immortal bodies at the resurrection and forget to make them prepared to travel through space? No, of course not. That doesn't sound like the God we worship and admire. And it isn't what we find in the authoritative sources of our faith and doctrine concerning the resurrection of the righteous dead.

[Bravus]

Meh, all y'all live in a disappointingly pedestrian universe.

[Paula]

Real does not mean material... I like C S Lewis' statement that it is the eternal that is real and concrete and us that are temporal and filmy and ephemeral.

[Overaged]

I just recognize that people are generally happier when I'm not around. I think I step on too many toes, though I don't mean to hurt anyone.

Well; I don't know you personally, of course, but I would be very upset if you didn't meet me in heaven! I would atleast like you to come for a tea, and see if you like it. My bet is that you will!

[Overaged]

Meh, all y'all live in a disappointingly pedestrian universe.

What is a "pedestrian universe?"

[Bravus]

Overaged, 'pedestrian' in this context means plodding, boring, everyday, unimaginative. The metaphor is of walking when we should be flying.

What I'm hearing here is that God really is just a big huge old white bearded white man, albeit an extremely holy and glowing one, and heaven really is just another physical location somewhere in this universe, albeit a pretty nice one, and God still has to fly through space and time the same way we do, slower than the speed of light, and...

Whereas for me, God is more immense than a thousand universe, and pervades every subatomic particle of this universe, including the ones in our bodies, heaven is similarly transcendant and eternal, God is outside space and time so doesn't have to travel through them because he's already everywhere (and everywhen), and...

And, given that most of the underpinnings of the 'pedestrian universe' are pretty speculative or draw a pretty long bow from the relevant Biblical texts, it's not simply that I'm imagining beyond Inspiration.

Heck, the Bible is *not* pedestrian! Read the first part of Ezekiel some time with your eyes properly open!

[Bravus]

PS If Jesus is material and has to fly through space to get to heaven, he has to do it slower than lightspeed (in the pedestrian universe). If it takes a week, that's only 7 lightdays, which isn't very far at all: the nearest stars are over 4 lightyears away. Certainly heaven can't be in the Orion nebula, which is about 1300 lightyears away. 7 lightdays is barely outside our Solar System...

[Bravus]

7 lightdays is about 180 billion km. Voyager 1 is currently about 10 billion km from earth, or a bit over a third of a lightday.

[Overaged]

Hmmm, interesting. But now can you explain what you mean by "with your eyes properly open" so that when I read Ezekiel; I do it right.

In regards to "heaven" I was there last night.

[Woody]

Pam, in answer to the question in the title of this post:

No I will not be there.

A lot of people (who know me) are genuinely grateful for this answer.

Graeme

Graeme ... I suspect that you have been mislead on this belief. When the Lord comes in the clouds ... you just may be the most surprised person on Earth.

[phkrause]

Graeme ... I suspect that you have been mislead on this belief. When the Lord comes in the clouds ... you just may be the most surprised person on Earth.

I most definitely have to agree with you there Woody, I think many of us will be suprised. I know I will be.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: Woody

Graeme ... I suspect that you have been mislead on this belief. When the Lord comes in the clouds ... you just may be the most surprised person on Earth.

I most definitely have to agree with you there Woody, I think many of us will be suprised. I know I will be.

Really though pk ... if we fully understood Jesus ... we would NOT be surprised. For HE is Mercy. He is LOVE. He would have ALL to be saved.

[nuff sed]

When you get to heaven

You will doubtless view

Many who will be

Quite a surprise to you

Don't look around

Don't even stare

Doubtless they

Will be surprised

To see that you are there!....Anon

nuff sed..........

[phkrause]

When you get to heaven

You will doubtless view

Many who will be

Quite a surprise to you

Don't look around

Don't even stare

Doubtless they

Will be surprised

To see that you are there!....Anon

nuff sed..........

I like that 'nuff sed

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, that seems to be the perspective that Jesus suggested in Matthew 25. I like to refer to that as the parable of the clueless saints.

[Tom Wetmore]

I just recognize that people are generally happier when I'm not around. I think I step on too many toes, though I don't mean to hurt anyone.

OK, here's the deal. I will cry if you are not there and there isn't supposed to be any crying there. I propose sacrificing my toes so you can be there without stepping on my toes. I could live with that. Anyone else willing to sacrifice their toes for Pam?

Whatever it takes... That is God's way.

[Overaged]

Overaged Likes

We wont go without you Pam!

[Guest truthseeker007]

Rudywoofs there is enough room in heaven for everybody. Even if all the people on this board don t like you, which isn t the case of course, it would be mathmatically impossible not to make a 1000+ friends there considering the fact that many many millions of all generations will go to heaven. Now we all have different backgrounds, but God is way too wise to give entrance only to people with one particular background. So lift ye head, there is no need to feel discouraged. I would feel very uncomfortable in heaven if there were no people like you and i think a lot of people with my kind of background would feel so too. By the way, the personal relationship you have with God is worth more than any human relationship. Remember that and you ll realise your "pain" is totally unnecessary.

Be thankfull you survived the occult stuff. Nowadays in the Dutch media there is a murder case about a 14 year old boy who summoned the spirits in a forest, he became posessed said some personal things to a friend and then got stabbed to death and his last words were "God please forgive me". It s just to remind you that if God didn t love you very much you would probably be in a very worse situation right now.

Cheers