sdapropheticministry and Daniel 2

[GiveHimGlory]

**deleted by Stan**

I have never seen any good come out of Shepard Rod post, or visits to Church.. certainly not going to let them use this as an audience..

[phkrause]

Seems very far fetched to me. And the true believers killing the so called "lukewarm" ones. No I'd say very far out.

[Twilight]

Just interpret the prophecey against the bible and you will see that this does not stack up very quickly. :-)

Key points.

The "stone" hits the feet.

Daniel tells us what the stone is.

No need to speculate.

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

It is the kingdom that breaks up the statue.

The kingdom is the stone.

What kingdom?

The kingdom of God.

The kingdom of God is the kingdom established in Gods people through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

At a time during the feet, this stone hit.

During the 1260 days, the stone (kingdom of God) hit the feet (the papacy).

This started with the reformation.

It is a church that is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, that rises up during the Papal period and then goes through till the end.

It does not rise up at the end time, but before then, as the end time is signified by the ten toes, which is the Ten Kings that arise for a short while at the end. (The stone hits the feet not the toes).

So stone - kingdom of God.

Hits during the feet (1260 year period).

Then grows into a great mountain.

Large Kingdom of God.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

Central to all end time prophecy is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

[teresaq]

Seems very far fetched to me. And the true believers killing the so called "lukewarm" ones. No I'd say very far out.

sounds like shepherds rod to me, or some form of it.

[Stan]

Is this just more Branch Davidian stuff?

[GiveHimGlory]

The videos obviously go into more detail that I provide in my summary - I'm still curious to know what the real explanation of those quotes from Testimonies is regarding Ez 9 - clearly a number of people find evidence in the writings of EGW for Ez 9 being about some future event in the church.

Incidentally Twilight do you think Bible prophecy ever mentions the Orthodox church?

[Twilight]

The videos obviously go into more detail that I provide in my summary - I'm still curious to know what the real explanation of those quotes from Testimonies is regarding Ez 9 - clearly a number of people find evidence in the writings of EGW for Ez 9 being about some future event in the church.

Incidentally Twilight do you think Bible prophecy ever mentions the Orthodox church?

I have never seen any mention of the Orthodox church in bible prophecy. :-)

Remember, we should not study prophecy from the SOP, we should study it from the Bible, the Bible interprets itself.

The SOP can be used as a safeguard, but not the source, the Bible is the source.

[GiveHimGlory]

I just googled "Ellen White Ezekiel 9" and you certainly get some interesting links.

This one for example (my first link in Google's results)

http://omega77.tripod.com/nolongpra.htm

Here is a typical quote:

Quote:

There you have it friend! Ezekiel 9, the destruction of Jerusalem, will be literally manifested at SDA sanctuaries around the world! That is where it begins:

"Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel he stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, and betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit HIS PEOPLE in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety' is the cry from men who will NEVER AGAIN lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E.G. White, Testimonies, vol. 5, 211.

This appears to be a discussion on the same topic, although to my mind with no real conclusion, except that we each need to work out our own salvation.

http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread...on_of_Ezekiel_9

Here is more of the "come out of her" line

http://www.worldslastchance.com/for-sdas...o-separate.html

So I've still to find a more detailed explanation of these statements from a more orthodox SDA perspective...

[Twilight]

I just googled "Ellen White Ezekiel 9" and you certainly get some interesting links.

This one for example (my first link in Google's results)

http://omega77.tripod.com/nolongpra.htm

Here is a typical quote:

Quote:

There you have it friend! Ezekiel 9, the destruction of Jerusalem, will be literally manifested at SDA sanctuaries around the world! That is where it begins:

"Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel he stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, and betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit HIS PEOPLE in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety' is the cry from men who will NEVER AGAIN lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E.G. White, Testimonies, vol. 5, 211.

This appears to be a discussion on the same topic, although to my mind with no real conclusion, except that we each need to work out our own salvation.

http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread...on_of_Ezekiel_9

Here is more of the "come out of her" line

http://www.worldslastchance.com/for-sdas...o-separate.html

So I've still to find a more detailed explanation of these statements from a more orthodox SDA perspective...

You would have to look for the original context that she applied this principle to.

When Ellen White applied a biblical principle to a situation, it should not be automtically read that that is the prophetic application of the text...

Mark :-)

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The following is a complete list of wherever Mrs. White referred to Ezekiel 9. I don't see your quote listed. Why is that?:

1. 55% BOOKS/Mar - Maranatha (1976)/Chap. 288 - God Intervenes in Armageddon

...which were before the house." Ezekiel 9 :1-6. The work of destruction ...

2. 44% MANUSCRIPT RELEASES/18MR - Manuscript Releases Volume Eighteen [Nos. 1301-1359] (1990)/MR No. 1354 - Counsel Against Foolish Talking and Jesting; Christ our Example

...accept Christ as their Saviour. Ezekiel 9 :3-6. Notice particularly [that] the ...

3. 38% BOOKS/CET - Christian Experience and Teachings of Ellen G. White (1922)/32: PREPARING for the JUDGMENT HOUR

...which were before the house." Ezekiel 9 :1, 3-6. {CET 185. 2 ...

4. 35% BOOKS/GC - The Great Controversy (1911)/Chap. 41 - Desolation of the Earth

...which were before the house." Ezekiel 9 :1-6. The work of destruction ...

5. 29% MISCELLANEOUS COLLECTIONS/1888 - The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials (1987)/Chap. 158 - To A. R. Henry

...come when the prophecy of Ezekiel 9 will be fulfilled; that prophecy ...

6. 24% BOOKS/TM - Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers (1923)/Chap. 16 - Elevate the Standard [THIS SECTION IS A REPRINT OF THE TRACT, THE SIN OF LICENTIOUSNESS.]

...beside the brazen altar." Read Ezekiel 9 :2-7. The command is, "Slay ...

[teresaq]

I just googled "Ellen White Ezekiel 9" and you certainly get some interesting links.

This one for example (my first link in Google's results)

http://omega77.tripod.com/nolongpra.htm

Here is a typical quote:

Quote:

There you have it friend! Ezekiel 9, the destruction of Jerusalem, will be literally manifested at SDA sanctuaries around the world! That is where it begins:

"Here we see that the church--the Lord's sanctuary--was the first to feel he stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, and betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit HIS PEOPLE in judgment. Thus 'Peace and safety' is the cry from men who will NEVER AGAIN lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E.G. White, Testimonies, vol. 5, 211.

This appears to be a discussion on the same topic, although to my mind with no real conclusion, except that we each need to work out our own salvation.

http://community.beliefnet.com/go/thread...on_of_Ezekiel_9

Here is more of the "come out of her" line

http://www.worldslastchance.com/for-sdas...o-separate.html

So I've still to find a more detailed explanation of these statements from a more orthodox SDA perspective...

[Guest godsloveandlaw]

What really amazes me is the standard "oh, it's from so and so- can't be true". I have studied those 4 video's and it makes COMPLETE PERFECT SENSE. The blending of S.O.P and Scripture is all true. No lies are found in it. Study, I mean REALLY study it. Like Ellen White said "We have MANY MANY truths to unlearn" Here is a perfect example. The Rcok has always believed to be Christ, but the scripture says it comes for a "mountain". Mountians are described in scripture as "God's people" or church(temple). If The stone had be said to come for heaven or end "the north gate" (also signifys heaven) THEN I would think as many mistakely do, it is talking about being Jesus. But the truth is is comes from God's people, an remnant that swells into a great BIG mountian, meaning the "great multitude". Again study this FULLY before you disgard it. When we want the REAL truth --we find it.

[Guest godsloveandlaw]

You'll find where EGW say's Ezekiel sealing and John's Rev. sealing are one and the same in "Testimonies to Ministers" Page 455. Once we know this IT IS A GAME CHANGER! Timelines get all messed up with the 'traditional thinking". Study this deeply it will amaze you--God WILL purify His church, make no mistake, and it will be BEFORE the winds blow (politcal and religious persecution)

[Gerr]

That's all we need, another off-the-wall SDAs.

[John317]

It may be. I just saw this. I'll check it out.

[teresaq]

That's all we need, another off-the-wall SDAs.

The pictures at the beginning of the first video are definitely from the Shepherd's Rod.

[miz3]

That's all we need, another off-the-wall SDAs.

Gerry, then things would be no fun at all! It would be "dry as the hills of Gilboa"!

[John317]

...The message is basically as follows:

- the mountain in Daniel 2 is the SDA church

\

I don't believe this is true. The mountain consists of God's true people both before the cross and after the cross, but it is not only the SDA church.

Originally Posted By: GiveHimGlory

- the stone from the mountain are the true believers within the church - the remnant of the remnant, the 144,000.

No. The 144,000 will never be able to smash the human kingdoms. When Jesus Christ returns to the earth, that is the time the human kingdoms are smashed and replaced by the Kingdom of God.

The stone from the mountain is the Messiah who comes out of God's people. The mountain is God's people, yes, but those people are His church, which consists of both the Jews and the Gentiles. Christ was born of God from the people of God, a descendent of David. He was cut out without hands-- that is, with the hand of God.

Compare this with Rev. 12: 1-2. The woman clothed with the sun is God's pure people, who gave birth to the Messiah.

Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that the 144,000 SDAs will do what is described in the following verses:

Quote:

Daniel 2:34-- Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

And:

Quote:

Daniel 2:44-- And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream [is] certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

NOTE: the stone that brakes in pieces the iron, etc., clearly represents judgment, and that is the judgment of God, not the judgment brought about by 144,000 SDAs.

The 144,000 will preach the Third Angels Messages, but they will not smash human kingdoms to pieces. Only Christ will do that.

See Rev. 14: 14-20 and 19: 11-21.

Interestingly enough, the Roman Catholic Church believes that the rock which smashes the image is the first coming of Christ and includes the Roman Catholic Church which eventually fills the whole earth. This view is also false.

[miz3]

Ezekiel chapter 8, chapter 9, chapter 10, and Ezekiel chapter 11 are talking about a vision Ezekiel had that concerned the Jews of Ezekiel's day.

This prophecy is not talking about some long time period down to our day or beyond!

This is a specific prophecy that was in regard to the Jews and what God was going to do to them!

These chapters have not future meaning at all.

I would say those who try and use these chapters of Ezekiel as applicable to our day or beyond are grossly misapplying Scripture!

[John317]

Yes, it is Shepherd's Rod, but I'll allow this discussion to stay in order for people to have an opportunity to compare their beliefs with those of the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy.

If the same poster-- or others-- posts similar ones, they will be deleted.

[teresaq]

Was a post removed from here to the moderator's storage? I went to respond to it, and the person who responded to it, and both were gone.

[John317]

I don't know if the "true believers" are to actually kill the lukewarm ones, it wasn't too clear about that.

Not nice.

Imagine if an unbalanced individual got hold of this information. He might think he hears God speaking to him. Oh boy.

[John317]

If it was, I didn't do it.

Everything I ever remove ends up where moderators can access it.

[teresaq]

Yes, it is Shepherd's Rod, but I'll allow this discussion to stay in order for people to have an opportunity to compare their beliefs with those of the Bible and the Spirit of prophecy.

If the same poster-- or others-- posts similar ones, they will be deleted.