The Great Tribulation is passing

[Bravus]

Yes. But (and I know this is not what you're saying) others' racism does not excuse racism. 'They do it too' is no sort of response. The Bible has a higher standard for us: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

[phkrause]

Have you ever considered this in light of this subject PK?

Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

I read this as the sin we commit, if not repented of gets passed down to the next generation.

They inherit this potential to sin.

:-)

Don't forget the next verse that is part of the passage!

6. and perform loving kindness to thousands [of generations], to those who love Me and to those who keep My commandments.

the potential to sin is always there. I still say that that passage is not talking about that. This is my opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

[LifeHiscost]

the potential to sin is always there. I still say that that passage is not talking about that. This is my opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

Personally I agree with the thousand generations and the four, though perhaps not understanding all of the ramifications. God said it, so both are true and when properly understood they are as consistent with each other as the Father is consistent with the Son is consistent with the Holy Spirit is consistent with the Word.

Since the thousand generations is true, I as a child of the King, have the privilege of drawing on what He has done in righteousness and passed on to His chosen.

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."John 15:16 NKJV

And that promise really allows anyone to believe what they want

as His Word trumps any thing we might stumble over as long as we desire His Truth to prevail.

"He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.”"Matthew 26:39 NKJV

God blesses!

[remnant]

To be racist is foolish, and to hate is a sin. Do not participate in hatred toward your brother in any way. Do not overlook the what Jesus said in any measure or else your days will surely be bitter.

Matthew 5:23-26 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. 25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

God always favor the weak and defenseless, so keep that in mind when fighting over issues. The teachings always say to serve the lesser, for the greater is to be the servant in God's will. To break this rule is to go against God's will.

Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Do not let it be a difficult thing to do good things. Any sufferer of racism are subject to the rule of God.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

To believe in the bible, one have to believe in the unrighteousness done to the prophets, and even the apostles. Who would justify their killers? They were even killed by Jews. Who will condemn the Jews? Nevertheless, the perpetrator will be accountable. The denier of truth is not a child of God and will suffer hell fire. The Prophets angrily opposed the people who done wrong, then Jesus followed the children of their killers and convicted them of the crimes of their fathers because they did not repent nor wish to repent. They were filled with self-righteousness and their heart were harden like the Pharoah of Egypt, and did not listen to God. These men were Jews. Do not argue, but rather do what the Lord asked you to do. What if God were to one day called the black slaves his chosen people? There were black Jews. Then which complainer will escape God's wrath?

[remnant]

I do understand that is hard to agree with everything I say, because I talk from observation on many things that people don't know anything about. Sometimes I do things to test the spirit of others. I don't care about what people choose to believe or hear. I just care about their heart. That is what gets them in trouble.

It is noble of you to bear the burden of some of the people here. They should be very thankful for your good heartedness. I sometimes feel the message should get out other than being compassionate to everyone's feelings. It is not to be personal to all, but only those who are agressive in a negative way.

I believe there are horrible times on the way and it is God's will that is responsible. God is weighing the hearts of mankind.

[remnant]

The trumpets just might be the people of the Lord speaking to the injustice in the world. Everytime their has been someone yelling to the world for a godly cause to be corrected could be a trumpet. Those with wisdom should decipher that type of prophecy. I can think of a few. Gondi, Martin Luther King, King James, and Nelson Mandella. The trumpets can be the type of message as well. Who has knowledge of great compassionate men of the world?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

re: slavery:

Some of my ancestors owned slaves.

Some of my ancestors *were* slaves.

I don't feel I owe anybody anything because an ancestor owned slaves.

I don't feel anybody owes me anything because an ancestor was a slave.

This "generational" thing is silly, imho. It smacks of a shame-based theology. It would also mean that Jesus needed to pay reparations to humans for the things his not-so-nice ancestors did. But Jesus didn't owe anyone anything.

re: "trumpeting":

**ponders**

Remnant, I have a question for you. Is English your native language? I ask because I have difficulty following your thinking as it is written.

[Twilight]

BTW While it seems evident that the Caucasians are guilty of gross injustice at the treatment of those of darker skin, I watched a documentary that revealed it was those of the same race but different tribes, who kidnapped the preponderance of the people who were eventually enslaved in America, and sold them to the slave traders who had the ships that transported them here. The slave trafficking could not have succeeded without that collaboration.

Seems we need not look far to see the blood of Jesus soiling ourselves if we bother looking.

God blesses!

This is indeed a very good point.

The slave trade was driven by Arabic, Asian, Black and White people.

And still is...

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Have you ever considered this in light of this subject PK?

Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

I read this as the sin we commit, if not repented of gets passed down to the next generation.

They inherit this potential to sin.

:-)

Don't forget the next verse that is part of the passage!

6. and perform loving kindness to thousands [of generations], to those who love Me and to those who keep My commandments.

the potential to sin is always there. I still say that that passage is not talking about that. This is my opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

Couldn't then the obverse be true?

That in fact, those that have been given a new heart, have a potential to pass on those good traits to all of their descendents?

Maybe God weights the scales in this matter.

Or maybe He is saying, sin will wipe you out as a line, but righteousness will give your line an eternal inheritance (as long as they remain in it)?

As to the agreeing part, I just wanted you to understand where my thoughts came from. :-)

[Twilight]

The trumpets just might be the people of the Lord speaking to the injustice in the world. Everytime their has been someone yelling to the world for a godly cause to be corrected could be a trumpet. Those with wisdom should decipher that type of prophecy. I can think of a few. Gondi, Martin Luther King, King James, and Nelson Mandella. The trumpets can be the type of message as well. Who has knowledge of great compassionate men of the world?

The trumpets are synonymous with "announcements".

But we have to let the bible interpret itself remnant.

I would be cautious of linking them to strictly racial issues.

Consider this, the issue at the end of time will be Gods "fleshly" people, persecuting Gods "spiritual" people.

It will be spiritacism (new word I believe), rather than racism that will be the issue.

Mark :-)

[LifeHiscost]

Aren't we glad we're not like them.

"You may think you can condemn such people, but you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you who judge others do these very same things."

Romans 2:2 NKJV

Originally Posted By: remnant

I believe there are horrible times on the way and it is God's will that is responsible. God is weighing the hearts of mankind. [/quote']

"The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. "John 10:10

NKJV

God blesses!

[Dr. Rich]

Remnant, I was talking about the Trumpets as given to us in Rev. 8 and 9. Are you aware that when the first trumpet sounds a third of the earth will be burned up? Has this happened yet?

And when the second trumpet sounds a third of the sea becomes blood and a third of the sea food die? Wow, not so sure I would want to have a home by the sea.

And when the third trumpet sounds a third of the fresh water becomes undrinkable?

I don't have to go any further to show that the first trumpet has not yet sounded, so how is it that the time of trouble started already? Let me be the first to tell you: "You ain't seen NOTHING yet!"

[LifeHiscost]

Remnant, I was talking about the Trumpets as given to us in Rev. 8 and 9. Are you aware that when the first trumpet sounds a third of the earth will be burned up? Has this happened yet?

And when the second trumpet sounds a third of the sea becomes blood and a third of the sea food die? Wow, not so sure I would want to have a home by the sea.

And when the third trumpet sounds a third of the fresh water becomes undrinkable?

I don't have to go any further to show that the first trumpet has not yet sounded, so how is it that the time of trouble started already? Let me be the first to tell you: "You ain't seen NOTHING yet!"

"I will say of the LORD, “He is my refuge and my fortress;

My God, in Him I will trust.”

Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler

And from the perilous pestilence.

He shall cover you with His feathers,

And under His wings you shall take refuge;

His truth shall be your shield and buckler.

You shall not be afraid of the terror by night,

Nor of the arrow that flies by day,

Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,

Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.

A thousand may fall at your side,

And ten thousand at your right hand;

But it shall not come near you.

Only with your eyes shall you look,

And see the reward of the wicked.

Because you have made the LORD, who is my refuge,

Even the Most High, your dwelling place,

No evil shall befall you,

Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling;

For He shall give His angels charge over you,

To keep you in all your ways."Psalm 91:2-11

NKJV

Praise God for His Word!

"

But let all who take refuge in you rejoice;

let them sing joyful praises forever.

Spread your protection over them,

that all who love your name may be filled with joy.

For you bless the godly, O Lord;

you surround them with your shield of love."

Psalm 5:11-12 NLT

"for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."Phil 2:13 NASB

Even so! Come, Lord Jesus!!

[remnant]

Here is someone who did research on the seven trumpets of revelation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMevEd-YMrQ

I don't agree with all he is saying, but I think he is on the right path. It has been over 2000 years since the book was been written. This person convinces me that the great tribulation started when the Jews were slaughtered by the Romans. The wars mounted from that point.

Racism has it's place, but what I am talking about is a people that are lost. God will claim them as well as any other Jew as the Bible states.

The amazing thing about the slaves is that God knows where they are at, but they don't even remember who they are. The bible shows God following them through the hills of Africa through Ethiopia and other places throughout Africa. They were running from the curse that Jesus promised would be upon them.

The bible shows God's anger cast down on them in deutoronomy 28. He clearly speak of the Jews in America and around the world. The american slaves have no history, but God reached out from the times of Moses and restored it. He reserves compassion to these people. He explains their history to them when they seemed to have forgotten.

God clearly states that he will be dividing the people that believe in the lie and not the truth from those who trust in His truth.

Matthew 7

*God is talking about the promise to Abraham. There are Jews that are the remnant of the 12 tribes of Israel. The speck in the eye is sin to God. The Jews had done foolishly and thrown their gifts to the gentiles.

*Abraham asked God to bless his seed and it was granted and will be fulfilled, even to this day. Those slaves and other Jews will be redeemed and everyone will truly fear the Lord.

*The snake(devil) that has enprisoned the Jews and the world will be killed by ****the Lord**** and the children will finally be in peace. Therefore, do onto others as you wish to be done unto you. Don't be like the lying snake.

*This world is filled with so many lies, but the truth will get you into heaven. Follow the narrow path(truth). Seek and you will find.

*The liars small and great will be tossed into the lake of fire.

*Lawlessness is the key word in this chapter that show God's knowledge of what is going on these days long after the gospel.

*Many of His people identity has been stripped from them. Cesare Borgia is the stem of the act, this is not an attack on whites. Don't get me wrong. There are people who know the truth and fooled the world condemning many of the Jews to death and slavery. There is no justice in this world for those Jews.

*These things are the truth that can't be washed away by the storms. But Cesare Borgia is a lie that stood strong for a long time and now it is blown away.

[wayfinder]

I find that none of this is even close to being true. It is impossible to open any of the seven seals before the Lamb even receives the book with the seals. In Daniel 7:13,14 One like a Son of Man is led into the presence of the Ancient of Days and one of the seven gifts is a kingdom. This event is discribed in Revelation 5:9,10 where the Lamb is deemed worthy to receive the book with seven seals and the four living creatures and 24 elders sing, and a part of that song states, "and purchased with your blood men from every tibe, tongue, people and nation and have made them to be a kingdom and priests. According to Daniel 8:13,14 The sanctuary in heaven did not begin operation until the end of the 2300 eves and morns and that year was 1844.

[remnant]

According to Daniel 8:13,14 The sanctuary in heaven did not begin operation until the end of the 2300 eves and morns and that year was 1844.

What is the sanctuary in heaven? 1844 was an interesting year. Something did happen that year.

[remnant]

It is impossible to open any of the seven seals before the Lamb even receives the book with the seals.

What can a seal be? I can't decipher many of Rev. but I can decipher lies. I can see the world is in deep troubles righteously. Rev. doesn't tell the whole story of the end times. It is an emphatic statement to show God's glory and promise to the chosen and some gentiles. God shows no love for the lovers of the lie.

The Lie? Their eyes are waxed shut and their hearts are as stone and their ears are shut. They don't know the truth. Here is the truth to the Jews.

Rev. 2;9 I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

The world's Jews are a synagogue of Satan. All who beleve these are God's people are in danger of Hell fire. There is sufficient evidence that they aren't God's people. Who say they are, are in fact the liar God refers to throughout the New Testiment. These are a people. God's people are not in the land. The land is still divided amoung the wicked.

[wayfinder]

The "earthly" tabernacle/sanctuary was patterned after the "heavenly" sanctuary/temple. The "earthly" temple was the center of all Israelite religious practice, from the required sacrifices and offerings to the religious festivales it allowed all of Israel to experience the plan for restoration that God had to restore His glory to all the earth. God gave Israel two opportunities to accomplish the required elements of His kingdom, they failed both times. This moved everything to the heavenly realm. Today God's kingdom is in the world, but not of the world, they are a kingdom of the heavens. The sanctuary for this kingdom is not on earth it is in the heavens and the High Priest operates on behalf of His kingdom. This operation began when He received a kingdom (see Daniel 8:14 where He was given dominion, Glory, and a kingdom). The people of this kingdom had been purchased from every tribe, tongue, people, and nation (see Revelation 5:9)and the price He paid for them was His blood.

1844 was the 2300th year from the start of the time designated for the begining of operation of the temple/sanctuary in heaven on behalf of the kingdom of heaven, which the "One like a Son of Man" received when presented before The Ancient of Days". In the prophecy, given by the greatest Prophet to ever walk on this earth, the Son of God. We are told that the "kingdom of heaven" will be like 10 bridesmaids..., notice, Jesus calls these the kingdom of heaven. These "bridesmaids" expected the Bridegroom to arrive on a certain day. All ten went out to meet Him, He did not come as expected. This happened in 1844. Why did the bridesmaids expect the bridegroom? because they had the prophecy of Daniel 8. When the bridesmaids went out, the temple in heaven began operation on behalf of the kingdom of heaven, who were waiting in hopeful expectation for the return of the Bridegroom. The prophecy tells us that the Bridegroom comes while they are all asleep.

The seven messages to the seven assemblies/churches, are directed to this latter kingdom/lampstand. Notice this warning to the sleeping assembly in Sardis "I come like a thief, wake-up", sounds like the sleeping bridesmaids. There is also a warning to Thyatira that the kingdom of heaven has a woman who calls herself a prophetess....

Revelation 8:3 NAS

Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer ; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 11:19 NAS

And the temple (sanctuary) of God which is in heaven was opened ; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple, and there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder and an earthquake and a great hailstorm.

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: wayfinder

It is impossible to open any of the seven seals before the Lamb even receives the book with the seals.

What can a seal be? I can't decipher many of Rev. but I can decipher lies. I can see the world is in deep troubles righteously. Rev. doesn't tell the whole story of the end times. It is an emphatic statement to show God's glory and promise to the chosen and some gentiles. God shows no love for the lovers of the lie.

The Lie? Their eyes are waxed shut and their hearts are as stone and their ears are shut. They don't know the truth. Here is the truth to the Jews.

Rev. 2;9 I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

The world's Jews are a synagogue of Satan. All who beleve these are God's people are in danger of Hell fire. There is sufficient evidence that they aren't God's people. Who say they are, are in fact the liar God refers to throughout the New Testiment. These are a people. God's people are not in the land. The land is still divided amoung the wicked.

Remnant, are you saying that Rev.2:9 is talking about literal Jews in the Middle East or wherever they may be?

Is it not rather referring to spiritual Jews, those who say they are the people of God today? Who is that do you think?

sky

I realize that since A.D.34 the Jewish people are no longer God's people. It is true that by the time Jesus came they had become the representatives of Satan, hence they were the synagogue of Satan then. But the "Jews" mentioned here in Revelation 2:9 are Modern Israel, the professed people of God, at the time of the end.

[remnant]

Remnant, are you saying that Rev.2:9 is talking about literal Jews in the Middle East or wherever they may be?

Is it not rather referring to spiritual Jews, those who say they are the people of God today? Who is that do you think?

sky

What I know is that the so called Jews (Not Jew by any means) today are cold hearted killers, thieves, and every wicked thing you can imagine. They are agressive in every way sort of like Hitler. They convince America to kill on their behalf all over the world. Anyone who studied anything about these so called God chosen people will find a trail or utter violence.

Yes, I do believe the Bible is literal when talking about these people. Jesus made it clear that he came to save the lost sheep is israel. He is speaking to the Jews with the Bible, but he has made a way for the gentiles to be saved. The Jews are the slaves that were sent all over the world by the so-called Jews, Arabs, Europeans, and Americans. The world rose up against them and had their way with them.

The prophets of the Old Testiment Nahum and Habakkuk are calling out the curse in Africa. Why would the Bible talk about killing in Africa? The Jews were chased into Africa and cornered. They were black but they weren't African. Not white, not arab, not asian.

These people were chosen because God knew about today, yesterday, and tomorrow. He saw it fit to choose them as a people for the world to hate or have compassion on. This is a great standard to place before the people who want to go to heaven.

Consider the plight of these people as far as you know. These people are universally hated. They are God's people. God knows what the people are going to do. He has already written what He will do in the end. There will definately be a war of armegedon.

There are no spiritual Jews. There are real Jews and real Gentiles. The leader of this country and England and other countries know where are the Jews. The rich 1 percent knows. Hitler knew. The unaware majority of the world don't know or don't care to know. How can they be righteous? This country is the worst at denying the truth and those people shall be dealt with by the most high.

[skyblue888]

"If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal.3:29.

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not from men but from God." Rom.2:28,29.

So there are those who claim to be Jews inwardly but they are not.

sky

[Gail]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

Remnant, are you saying that Rev.2:9 is talking about literal Jews in the Middle East or wherever they may be?

Is it not rather referring to spiritual Jews, those who say they are the people of God today? Who is that do you think?

sky

What I know is that the so called Jews (Not Jew by any means) today are cold hearted killers, thieves, and every wicked thing you can imagine. They are agressive in every way sort of like Hitler. They convince America to kill on their behalf all over the world. Anyone who studied anything about these so called God chosen people will find a trail or utter violence.

Yes, I do believe the Bible is literal when talking about these people. Jesus made it clear that he came to save the lost sheep is israel. He is speaking to the Jews with the Bible, but he has made a way for the gentiles to be saved. The Jews are the slaves that were sent all over the world by the so-called Jews, Arabs, Europeans, and Americans. The world rose up against them and had their way with them.

The prophets of the Old Testiment Nahum and Habakkuk are calling out the curse in Africa. Why would the Bible talk about killing in Africa? The Jews were chased into Africa and cornered. They were black but they weren't African. Not white, not arab, not asian.

These people were chosen because God knew about today, yesterday, and tomorrow. He saw it fit to choose them as a people for the world to hate or have compassion on. This is a great standard to place before the people who want to go to heaven.

Consider the plight of these people as far as you know. These people are universally hated. They are God's people. God knows what the people are going to do. He has already written what He will do in the end. There will definately be a war of armegedon.

There are no spiritual Jews. There are real Jews and real Gentiles. The leader of this country and England and other countries know where are the Jews. The rich 1 percent knows. Hitler knew. The unaware majority of the world don't know or don't care to know. How can they be righteous? This country is the worst at denying the truth and those people shall be dealt with by the most high.

My goodness- those are pretty hefty, hateful claims with no back-up provided.

As representatives of Christ, what is our attitude to be toward those who are not His followers no matter what race or nation they belong to?

It makes me wonder what our Jewish members here think... Would what was quoted above help them love God more?

[phkrause]

My goodness- those are pretty hefty, hateful claims with no back-up provided.

As representatives of Christ, what is our attitude to be toward those who are not His followers no matter what race or nation they belong to?

It makes me wonder what our Jewish members here think... Would what was quoted above help them love God more?

Excellent post Gail. And people wonder why the Jews dislike (and that's putting it mildly) Christians! Statements like this, without any evidence, are sick.

[remnant]

"If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal.3:29.

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not from men but from God." Rom.2:28,29.

So there are those who claim to be Jews inwardly but they are not.

sky

He is speaking to people who know the real Jews. The Jews of today have no authority to speak. How can salvation be delivered where the liar rule? The people follow another Jew.

[Stan]

Remnant... you might find that it would be wise to bump your conversations up the ladder a bit.

Not negotiable.