Holy Spirit as Deity

[John317]

Mark 3:29

But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.

Luke 12:10

And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Those verses, if we think clearly about them, prove beyond a doubt that the Godhead consists of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. How so? Because we may be forgiven for blaspheming against the Father and the Son, but we won't be forgiven for blasphming against the Holy Ghost.

It's impossible to blaspheme a non-person, or a thing. Only a person may be blasphemed. Jesus was obviously talking about blaspheming Deity, not a creature or a being who's inferior to Christ. The Holy Spirit must therefore be a Being who is equal to both the Father and to Christ.

[John317]

There is proof in the Old Testament that God does not dwell where there is sin.

But if you are right that God will not dwell in anyone who is a sinful human being, then God has never dwelt in or with anyone since unfallen Adam and Christ. The Bible doesn't teach that before the Holy Spirit will dwell with us, we must be absolutely sinless. If that were the case, the Holy Spirit would never dwell with anyone this side of the second coming.

The Bible very plainly teaches that the Holy Spirit dwelt in and with the disciples. See John 14: 15-17.

In fact, Jesus told them that the Holy Spirit was already dwelling with them. And this was before He died.

John 14:15-17

"If you love me, you will keep my commandments. [16] And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, [17] even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

NOTE: Jesus said the Holy Spirt "is dwelling with you" now-- i.e., while you are imperfect and before you are sinless. The disciples never were sinless, were they? Yet Jesus assured his followers that the Holy Sprit would dwell with them and in them.

[wayfinder]

Genesis 5:22 NAS

Then Enoch walked with God three hundred years after he became the father of Methuselah, and he had other sons and daughters.

Genesis 5:24 NAS

Enoch walked with God ; and he was not, for God took him.

Genesis 6:9 NAS

These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time ; Noah walked with God.

[skyblue888]

There is proof in the Old Testament that God does not dwell where there is sin.

musicman

__________________________________________________________

"Before sin created the need, God had provided a remedy. Every soul that yields to temptation is wounded, bruised, by the adversary, but wherever there is sin, there is the Saviour." Education, p.113.

It is written that "He bears all things." Heb.1:3. Since He bears all things He must necessarily bear us with our sins. Otherwise we would be crushed under the burden of sin.

"The heaviest burden we bear is the burden of sin. If we were left to bear this burden, it would crush us." D.A.328.

Hence, "Wherever there is sin, there is the Saviour," bearing it.

Believer or unbeliever, "In Him we live and move and have our being." Acts 17:28.

sky

[Dr. Waite]

Yes, I believe that Ellen White was what she claimed to be "God's messenger". I read everything she wrote on a certain subject and I also look up the bible references she quotes, but I do not necessarily accept your interpretation of what I read.

I may have misunderstood you, but apparently you are teaching that the holy spirit is a third god different from the Father and the Son and not a person who is God's representative or agent, but rather a third god and that the three gods are one god because they are a "unity". It is clear that the Early Pioneers, including Ellen White, believed that God (the Father) is everywhere present by his "representative" the holy spirit. The early pioneers, including Ellen White, believed and taught this:

"That there is one God, a personal, spiritual being, the creator of all things, omnipotent, omniscient, and eternal, infinite in wisdom, holiness, justice, goodness, truth, and mercy; unchangeable, and everywhere present by his representative, the Holy Spirit. Ps 139:7"

There is a difference between a principal and an agent or representative. A representative or agent is merely acting on behalf of the principal and he or she is NOT the principal, but merely the agent. Nature, both visible and invisible, is an agent of God and not God himself. Dr. Kellogg (who believed in the doctrine of the trinity) taught in his book "The Living Temple" that nature, both visible and invisible, is god himself and because it is god himself then god himself is in everything that has life. Apparently, you are teaching the same thing as Dr. Kellogg that invisible nature or call it "divine nature or godhead" is god himself and not god's agent or representative?

In the book "Ministry of Healing", it states: "God's handiwork in nature is not God Himself in nature. The things of nature are an expression of God's character and power; but we are not to regard nature as God." MH 413

You also apparently teach that the holy spirit dwells in the sinner. This is also what Dr. Kellogg taught. But, Ellen White states: "Thus I worked and suffered in my girlhood. And all through my life I have had the same errors to meet, though not always in the same form. In Living Temple the assertion is made that God is in the flower, in the leaf, in the sinner. But God does not live in the sinner. The Word declares that He abides only in the hearts of those who love Him and do righteousness. God does not abide in the heart of the sinner; it is the enemy who abides there. {1SAT 343.1}"

[Sonny]

The Word declares that He abides only in the hearts of those who love Him and do righteousness. God does not abide in the heart of the sinner; it is the enemy who abides there. {1SAT 343.1}

You are really getting the cart in front of the horse. The sinner can't experience agape (righteousness) unless the Spirit lives in him. Even after conversion we sin.

[Dr. Waite]

You then must believe that Ellen White and the person who inspired her to write this got the cart before the horse.

[Sonny]

You then must believe that Ellen White and the person who inspired her to write this got the cart before the horse.

I'll go with the Bible....Ellen is the lesser light. Truth is progressive.

[Dr. Waite]

Truth is progressive, but what is truth DOES NOT nullify what was truth previously. The working of the holy spirit on the sinner does not mean that the holy spirit dwells in the sinner.

[Sonny]

Truth is progressive, but what is truth DOES NOT nullify what was truth previously. The working of the holy spirit on the sinner does not mean that the holy spirit dwells in the sinner.

Rom 8:11 if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

Truth is progressive, but what is truth DOES NOT nullify what was truth previously. The working of the holy spirit on the sinner does not mean that the holy spirit dwells in the sinner.

Rom 8:11 if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

This doesn't prove anything. He was talking to spirit filled people when he said this.