Did Jesus die just for us?

[teresaq]

I really appreciate your thoughts, Robert!

The difficulty seems to be in staying focused for more than a minute on the life of Christ, or any scripture. :(

[Dr. Rich]

Hey Tobwin, did you really say Cain married his sister? Where did you find this in the bible? Cain probably married a woman that was from the first 6 day creaton and not from Adam's blood. After all, why would God have placed a mark on him?

But then hardly anyone understands the two creations so most probably believe in a lie in regards to this. Jesus died in order to allow Adam to keep living. His death also paid the price (bond) for those who accept this bond and become bondservants for Jesus.

[skyblue888]

Do you know what the mark of Cain is?

It is very possible that he married his sister. Who else could he have married? The Lord must have allowed it then because the race was very healthy and strong.

Married someone from the first six day creation!!!! What is that all about? and what do you mean by "2 creations"?

sky

[skyblue888]

I really appreciate your thoughts, Robert!

The difficulty seems to be in staying focused for more than a minute on the life of Christ, or any scripture.

teresaq, How about the two statements I shared, the first one from A.T. Jones and the second from Mrs. White. Don't you appreciate the truths expressed? Mindboggling thoughts!

sky

[Guest truthseeker007]

Hey Skyblue, thanks for your replies. Sorry for my late reply, last week i was staying with my girlfriend. Your replies seem logical. The problem with these kind of issues is that it is possible to draw logical conclusions based on the bible which are contradictionary.

Actually i believe that Jesus died mostly to save the universe and HIS name, but i don t think Jesus loves mankind very much to be honoust. This statement is solely based on personal experience and not on the bible.

I know that by going through rough times your character can be formed, which might explain why my life is so hard. If that s the case, it is an act of love and then i am very thankfull, i am willing to go through anything to serve God. The problem is that my life is so filled with disappointments and hard times that i am not able to reach out to the world. There are so many things i could do for the Lord, if only he helped me, but now it seems like my life is useless and often i wish i was never born. This all makes me believe that God does not really care about humans very much, for i am filled with good intentions and i am willing to make them come true, but if God doesn t complement me with His power then it s all useless.

So in short, i believe Jesus died mostly to save the universe and His name. Does that mean that God is not as good as most preachers want us to believe? Definitely not, i myself have experienced how rotten human character is, i don t have the illusion that i will make it to heaven, and i know that if i would walk over to the other side i would get all the power i want, but i would rather die than walking over to the other side. I know i am going to hell, and i ve found peace with it. Humans don t come from very far, but fallen angels do. For mankind to be destroyed with fire, is to find the peace we never had. I believe the standards of the bible are to be taken seriously and practised in truth as much as possible. I feel it makes me happy if i comfor to those biblical standards.

If God would just give me 1 dream saying he is with me and not forgotten me, i would believe God loves human beings, but no matter how often and how hard i pray, it remains silent on the other side. I have sacrificed very much to get to know God, but if it is not reciprory then it s all useless. Now my life is characterised by the sins of adultery and lying, perhaps this explains why God does not help me enough to be able to reach out to other people. But one time i gave up everything for God, made a total fool out of myself, was determined, went to church where i was a total stranger, and i felt very horrible. It was like God himself said to me i wasn t welcome there. So now i kind of have given up hope, however i have peace, because eternal destruction is like heaven to me.

Everybody thanks for your replies

[skyblue888]

Truthseeker, wow, sounds like you are not living up to your name any more! Listen, I know exactly how you are feeling. I myself have been at it since 1975. 1975 was declared to be "The year of Faith" by the pope. It meant something to me at the time because it was the very year I began searching for something, something that I knew I did not possess, peace of mind, hope, and rest from my struggles. Spiritually, at the time, I was in complete darkness. It has now been 35 years and you know what, in spite of the fact that all these years I have never stopped searching and studying and praying for more light, today I find myself having the same struggles. Why? Because the last time I checked I still had that same old sinful nature and the devil is still alive and well and as long as there is the faintest desire in me to know the truth and to be a witness to the truth, the enemy is just the more determined to kill that desire if he can.

Don't wait for God to appear to you in a dream to hear Him say those things you want to hear because you can hear His voice telling you these very things in His word. "I am with you always, even unto the end of the world." We can choose to believe He is with us or not to believe. If we believe it, then we know He is with us even unto the end. He tells us the same thing in many different ways. I can tell you that even now the devil is tempting me to give up everything. It's not the first time and it won't be the last time. But if we choose to hear a stranger's voice instead of the Lord's, where will we go? To the Lord's question, "Do you also want to go away?" Peter answered, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." John 6:67,68.

I have found that the solution is to look and live, that is, to look to the crucified and risen Saviour and to hang my helpless soul upon His all-sufficient merits. This is my life business. It is written that not one who does this will be left to perish.

It is also written that when we do this we shall receive all the help that we can desire. Through the merits of Christ, I claim the promise that the Lord will make me abhor everything that is offensive to Him and that He will preserve me for His heavenly kingdom. What He has promised He is able to perform. See 2 Tim.4:18,22; Rom.4:21.

Chin up! Look and live!

sky

[Gail]

Sky, that was a beautiful testimony!

Truthseeker, the Bible has much to say about not abandoning His people. Come again to the cross! We all must do this every day

The Psalms are the emotional readings of the Bible and there you will find comfort in God's promises. And in John 7:17 (I think, just off the top of my head) the promise is that you WILL know of the doctrine if you seek to do God's will.

Do not give up or despair. There is a war going on and we need always to place ourselves on His side if we see that we are being pulled away.

I know from personal experience that it is a 2-way street. God talks to us not only through His word but through our conscience, our minds.

[skyblue888]

Thanks Gail.

The Lord He is so good and His mercy

endures forever!

"As we acknowledge before God our

appreciation of Christ's merits, fragrance is

given to our intercessions. As we approach God

through the virtue of the Redeemer's merits,

Christ places us close by His side, encircling

us with His human arm, while with His divine arm

He grasps the throne of the Infinite. He puts His

merits in the censor in our hands to encourage our

petitions." Our Father Cares, p.120.

sky

[Gail]

Sky, I would go one step further and recommend meditating on just what those merits are

[Guest truthseeker007]

Thanks everybody, today my girlfriend and i broke up. Now i realise that the life i was living was filled with grace, for the Lord provided me with a home where i could forget the troubles of this world. Now i realise just how stupid i was, i often think i know everything,while i am deluding myself. Thank God he gives me strenght to carry on, the Lord is my shelter. He is the only love who never forsakes me!I am very thankfull that God his grace is abundant, Praise the Lord!

[Gail]

Keep in touch!

[skyblue888]

Sky, I would go one step further and recommend meditating on just what those merits are

Of course Gail. I think of His merits for relinquishing the form of God for ever in order to take the form of man in its fallen state. I think of the merits of His life of humility as a man, the merits of His life of perfect obedience; I think of the merits of His sufferings, the merits of His agony, the merits of His death upon the cross!

I think of the privilege that is ours, unworthy as we are, to claim them as our own because it is the good will of the Father to treat us, not according to our demerits but according to the merits of the crucified and risen Saviour.

I think of the fact that Jesus, moment by moment, is pleading before the Father, in our behalf, His own divine merits, claiming the gift of the Holy Spirit, the gift that brings all other blessigns in its train, that He may pour it upon us, as we acknowledge before God our appreciation of His merits.

"We see in the midst of the throne One bearing in hands and feet and side the marks of the suffering endured to reconcile man to God. We see a Father, infinite, dwelling in light unapproachable, yet receiving us to Himself through the merits of His Son." A.A.333.

Yes I like to meditate upon the merits of my precious Redeemer!

sky

[Dr. Rich]

Truthseeker, just remember, girls are like a bus. If you miss one another will always be around later.

[Dr. Rich]

The mark is Strong's 226. No one knows but it had to be something that would warn others of what Cain had done.

Read the Septuagint and you will see evidence for a 6 day creation thousands of years before Adam was placed into the garden. Not many understand this and after all it too is just a theory as is everything else about creation since none of us were there at the time.

[John317]

Read the Septuagint and you will see evidence for a 6 day creation thousands of years before Adam was placed into the garden.

Please either quote the verses in the LXX or give the references to the verses you believe show this evidence for a 6 day creation thousands of years before Adam was created.

What are the exact words that you are referring to?

[John317]

And guys are the same way, aren't they?

What you fail to mention, though, Dr. Rich, is that some girls and guys make good marriage partners, whereas others don't. So the next one that comes along like a bus may not be the one God wants you to have. I think it's important for people to pray long and sincerely for the right girl or guy. Prayer that God will let us know if we're not ready for marriage, and prayer that the person we choose is one who God wants us to marry. God will lead but only if we're listening.

[Dr. Rich]

John317, is your opinion found in the bible? Is that what David did in order to produce Solomon?

BTW, I was going to ask you where Jesus said that He came to die for you and the "us" in the question presented in this thread. Now don't get me wrong, I believe He did die in order for you and I to have a choice to belong to His Kingdom because you and I would not be here today IF God had executed (killed) Adam on the same day that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowing good and evil. Look at the alternative, if Adam had been killed, we would not have had a choice!

[phkrause]

John317, is your opinion found in the bible? Is that what David did in order to produce Solomon?

BTW, I was going to ask you where Jesus said that He came to die for you and the "us" in the question presented in this thread. Now don't get me wrong, I believe He did die in order for you and I to have a choice to belong to His Kingdom because you and I would not be here today IF God had executed (killed) Adam on the same day that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowing good and evil. Look at the alternative, if Adam had been killed, we would not have had a choice!

Actually that would have happen earlier, if he had killed Satan!

[Tobiwan]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How did we get from post (question) "one" to here.

"Two creations" thousands of years apart? WOW, what an idea! I have tried many times to come up with a timeline for events and understand a little of how and why. I won't take the time to relate the ideas I have heard and thought up all by myself. The fact is that there is not very much recorded about the Beginning, and several thousand years.

Two "Campfire" versions preserved in Genesis, a record of Adam and Eve's lack of trust in God and not choosing wisely. (I can almost see the story teller glancing at his wife, when he said, God said It is not good for man to be alone :-) The promise by God to fix what went wrong. A record of long lived people, and men choosing based on looks instead of principals that upset God so much He washed them all away except for one man who it appears had a substance abuse issue. It is important to understand what went wrong and needed to be fixed. If the pair had trusted God, "what a wonderful world this would be", same for Lucifer. All God has ever asked us to do is trust Him, (choose ye this day) and if we trust Him, He will save us. If we trust Him during this brief period of emergency situations, He will set us free and release us to self control. Join His facebook as a friend and He has promised to save His friends.

He fixed the problem and answered the questions asked and future questions about sin. "Sin pays a wage and that wage is death" He demonstrated that what He said about Sin is true. Lucifer could have been used, but imagine the job posting for his replacement. Adam and Eve could have been used for the demonstration, but again imagine the fear and concern that would have been raised about eating habits.

Jesus demonstrated by His actions what God is like. They believed God held a lottery for healing (first in the pool), He, healed whole villages and said, "this is what God is like" He was made to be sin and said "My God, why have You forsaken me", "why have you given me up", "why have you let me go?" He demonstrated the impact of being separated from God and He really died. Blood cells and plasma separated, He really died (tasted for all) then He fell asleep and was placed in the tomb. Lots of people have and are saying a lot about Jesus, but like Paul said to the jailer, if we believe what Jesus said we will be saved

There is no need for God to convict Lucifer. Satan's actions demonstrate his choice. He wanted to be free of God and he will get what he wants. Jesus action on the cross (and most of which was obscured by a cloud) demonstrates the results of Lucifers choice.

For there to be "freedom of choice" there needs to be at least two options. In this case, we can choose to walk with God, (like Enoch) or attempt to live by our selves. This freedom will exist throughout eternity. And because we have become like God, knowing good and evil, God will enlist our help to distribute the DVD's of what happened here throughout the universe.

P.S. We will then be able to view the Creation Series as well and have our questions answered as well.

P.S.S. What a Giant of a Good Friend we have in Jesus

[Dr. Rich]

Tobiwan, Yes, I think you got the picture when you wrote: "For there to be "freedom of choice" there needs to be at least two options."

And because of this, God allowed Satan to sow his seed in the same bible as what Jesus sowed His. (Matt. 7:24-27 and 13:24-30)

[Guest]

And because of this, God allowed Satan to sow his seed in the same bible as what Jesus sowed His.

What complete and utter nonsense. May God have mercy on your misguided soul.

[Dr. Rich]

Hey Richard, I see that you made your choice. Sorry about that!

[Dr. Rich]

Sorry Richard, I over stepped by bounds. I am trying to be more civil on this blog, but some times I just punch back.

I will agree that Jesus died for His Kingdom, (Rev. 5:9-10) but first we must belong to this Kingdom for His death to do any good. I am sure He loved the whole world and wanted the whole world to join the Kingdom, but because of prophecy, we know that this will not happen. In fact, we find that only a 'few' (Rev, 3:4) will have actually overcome sin and become blameless (Rev.14:5) before the time of trouble begins.