Freewill or Free Salvation?

[Overaged]

Can a truly converted Christian person ever have free will again? You know, as in "not my will but thine?"

[Musicman1228]

God's love is unconditional; salvation isn't.

[Overaged]

God's love is unconditional; salvation isn't.

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

[Guest]

God's love is unconditional; salvation isn't.

That's true....

[Guest]

the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Does this mean that ALL men are going to be saved? If not, then salvation is conditional.

[Woody]

All men ARE saved through the blood of Jesus.

It's a done deal.

Accomplished at Calvary.

Whether you believe or accept it or not is your choice.

But your not believing it does not do away with the fact that it is true.

[Guest]

according to that, I'm going to heaven whether I want to or not. And Satan and all his followers will be there too.

[Woody]

apparently you are not 'listening'

[Woody]

some accept it and some don't

those that accept it ... get it

those that don't accept it don't get it.

It elementary Watson.

If I hand you a gift ... you don't have it till you reach out and take it. But not taking it ... is in no way making the gift of no effect. The gift remains a reality. The gift remains there if you want it. But you don't have it till you reach out and take it.

[Woody]

ALL men are saved. God accomplished that at the cross.

NOT all men will accept it. If you don't accept it ... you don't have it.

[Guest]

I could not take the poll, because the correct answer is not even given as an option. I know which one you think is correct, but the will definitely plays a roll in your salvation.

God cannot work against man's will to save him from Satan's artifices. Man must put forth his human power to resist and conquer at any cost; he must be a co-worker with Christ. {CTBH 40.2}

In the divine arrangement God does nothing without the cooperation of man. He compels no man's will. That must be given to the Lord completely, else the Lord is not able to accomplish His divine work that He would do through the human agency. {TMK 55}

No one will be borne upward without stern, persevering effort in his own behalf. All must engage in this warfare for themselves. Individually we are responsible for the issue of the struggle; {8T 313.5}

God does not take man with his own natural feelings and deficiencies and place him right in the light of the countenance of God. No, man must do his part, and while man works out his own salvation, with fear and trembling, it is God that worketh in him to will and to do of His own good pleasure. With these two combined powers, man will be victorious, and receive a crown of life at last. {TDG 344}

[Guest]

ALL men are saved. God accomplished that at the cross.

NOT all men will accept it. If you don't accept it ... you don't have it.

I see...

[Guest]

Everything that God could do has been done for the salvation of man. In one rich gift He poured out the treasures of heaven. He invites, He pleads, He urges; but He will not compel men to come unto Him. He waits for their co-operation. He waits for the consent of the will, that He may bestow upon the sinner the riches of his grace, reserved for him from the foundation of the world.

Man does not build himself into a habitation for the Spirit, but unless there is a cooperation of man's will with God's will, the Lord can do nothing for him. The Lord is the great Master Worker, and yet the human agent must cooperate with the Divine Worker, or the heavenly building cannot be completed. All the power is of God, and all the glory is to redound to God, and yet all the responsibility rests with the human agent; for God can do nothing without the cooperation of man.--Review and Herald, Oct. 25, 1892. {YRP 42.4}

[Guest]

The Lord will receive sinners when they repent and forsake their sins so that God can work with their efforts in seeking perfection of character. . . . The whole purpose in giving His Son for the sins of the world is that people may be saved, not in transgression and unrighteousness, but in forsaking sin, washing their robes of character, and making them white in the blood of the Lamb. He proposes to remove from sinners the offensive thing that He hates, but they must cooperate with God in the work. Sin must be given up, hated, and the righteousness of Christ must be accepted by faith. Thus will the divine cooperate with the human. {BLJ 374.3}

[Overaged]

Man does not build himself into a habitation for the Spirit, but unless there is a cooperation of man's will with God's will, the Lord can do nothing for him.

So then, we do not have free will once we are "converted?"

The Bible says God can do something for us; and He does this even before we are converted. God does bless us even when we are "unjust." He gives rain to both the just and the unjust...

Your view says that we do not have free will once we are converted. Or in the converting process?

[Musicman1228]

Richard,

Amazing. We are on the same side of this issue. To believe as do Woody and Overaged do is to believe in Universalism; that ALL of mankind is saved in spite of anything they do to the contrary. There will be millions of Christians that 'say' they believe in Jesus Christ but don't ACT on that belief that will be lost forever because they believe the misplace idea that WHAT they DO does not matter. The following text confirms that what you do matters:

The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. Rev.3:21.

Jesus NEVER said that HE would overcome FOR us; we must overcome the same thing HE overcame.

The very sad thing is that these people will curse God to His face for holding them accountable for their actions, because they thought that their disobedience would not be held against them because they believed that Jesus did everything for them, and that they are saved only by the grace of Jesus Christ given them by faith. These people did not believe Jesus when He said:

“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense (reward) with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. Rev.22:12.

And:

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood (lies). Rev.22:14-15.

[Overaged]

Jesus NEVER said that HE would overcome FOR us; we must overcome the same thing HE overcame.

The very sad thing is that these people will curse God to His face for holding them accountable for their actions, because they thought that their disobedience would not be held against them because they believed that Jesus did everything for them, and that they are saved only by the grace of Jesus Christ given them by faith. These people did not believe Jesus when He said:

“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense (reward) with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. Rev.22:12.

Everything I have posted here so far has strictly been for the purpose of asking questions, and stimulating discussions on this important question. I have not said what I believe "one way or the other." Would you care to revise your very personalized statements to what does the Bible say about the OP?

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

Jesus NEVER said that HE would overcome FOR us; we must overcome the same thing HE overcame.

The very sad thing is that these people will curse God to His face for holding them accountable for their actions, because they thought that their disobedience would not be held against them because they believed that Jesus did everything for them, and that they are saved only by the grace of Jesus Christ given them by faith. These people did not believe Jesus when He said:

“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense (reward) with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. Rev.22:12.

Everything I have posted here so far has strictly been for the purpose of asking questions, and stimulating discussions on this important question. I have not said what I believe "one way or the other." Would you care to revise your very personalized statements to what does the Bible say about the OP?

I have made known only what Jesus has said about these things in Revelation, in Daniel, and in His own words. There is nothing personal in any of this. It is only by knowing the TRUTH that we will eventually be set free. It is not by guessing what the Truth is, or hoping or believing what the Truth is; we must KNOW the Truth. Belief in truth by grace through faith is 'fools gold' compared to the pure metal. To put anyone other than Jesus Christ in the position of saying from within themselves what is or isn't truth is not only unfair to them but unfair to those that would believe them. Our only hope of knowing the actual unadulterated truth is to trust in the words of Jesus Christ, and Him alone. And THAT is all that I am saying.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook

Man does not build himself into a habitation for the Spirit, but unless there is a cooperation of man's will with God's will, the Lord can do nothing for him.

So then, we do not have free will once we are "converted?"

The Bible says God can do something for us; and He does this even before we are converted. God does bless us even when we are "unjust." He gives rain to both the just and the unjust...

Your view says that we do not have free will once we are converted. Or in the converting process?

First of all, I don't see anywhere, where it says we do not have free will once we are converted. And secondly, I didn't say it, Ellen White did. Don't tell me you've thrown her overboard too.

[Guest]

Richard,

Amazing. We are on the same side of this issue.

What's even more amazing, is that you are in complete agreement with EGW too. The one you call a Jezebel, and a false prophet.

[Woody]

Quote:

I see...

well then ... that makes you better than my dog.

[karl]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Does this mean that ALL men are going to be saved? If not, then salvation is conditional.

[Musicman1228]

Here is an extensive article on free will that I wrote in 2008. If anyone is interested in reading it I would appreciate you thoughts and comments:

Free Will-Creations Crowning Achievement

[CoAspen]

Good reply's!!! Good example!

Seems this topic is a never tiring one, wonder why that is?

[CoAspen]

Quote:

To believe as do Woody and Overaged do is to believe in Universalism; that ALL of mankind is saved in spite of anything they do to the contrary.

Wrong...wrong...wrong....never were those words uttered!

Are peoples minds having difficulty comprehending what free is? If one rejects the gift, as stated, it is still free! Do people continue to believe that they must 'jump through hoops' to receive the gift? What is not understood about free?????

If you accept the 'free' gift of salvation, it is in your hands.

If you ignore the 'free' gift of salvation, it not in your hands.

Can't be explained any simpler.